Lameness experts

Just would echo that he's dangerously fat .
I would not even have him that fatty paddock here until someone thinner had grazed it off .
You really must must tackle his weight .
 
Urgh how is it fair that my lean fit horse has stress lami and yours has been through the same (with the over trim of the feet), is dangerously overweight and gets away with it.
 
Michen said:
Urgh how is it fair that my lean fit horse has stress lami and yours has been through the same (with the over trim of the feet), is dangerously overweight and gets away with it.
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Well this horse has not got away with it yet .
I would be near hysterical if one of mine was trotting like that.
And thats not how it works with horses Michen .
I try to give mine a nice easier life with lots of turnout and he ends up in horsepital with his ribs broken .
 
Wagtail said:
How tall is he, OP? I'm guessing around 15hh. If so, then I would say he needs to lose around 100kg. He has a very cresty neck, apple bum and has a spinal channel. I would condition score him a 4, possibly 4.5. He's very fine limbed. Gorgeous horse. I hope you get him sorted. I think your paddock looks a good size and once he has eaten it down, it should be ideal. It's so hard (and expensive) having a good doer. He's lucky he has an owner like you who can be bothered to help him to lose weight. I'd rather have a poor doer any day; much easier!
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Yep, he is around the 15hh mark. Thank you, I know from your previous posts what issues you have experienced yourself. I think his leg markings create a bit of an optical illusion and it doesn't help that I have just trimmed him up all neat. Tell me about it, my other one is a much poorer type and so much easier!

Goldenstar said:
Just would echo that he's dangerously fat .
I would not even have him that fatty paddock here until someone thinner had grazed it off .
You really must must tackle his weight .
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It has been grazed off and will only take a few days until it will be bare. I am tackling his weight as per my previous replies.
 
I'd have soaked hay and a track system in there, so he has to keep moving. Keep a very close eye on him (which of course you will be doing), to make sure the sugars in the stressed (short) grass don't tip him into laminitis.
 
Personally, I'd have him off the grass completely for now, and in a deep shavings bed and on soaked hay etc. Give him the suspected lami works.

IMHO its complacency bordering on neglect to allow him to eat that grass down in his current state. You've had the wake up call, its time to take it seriously.

Plus I run over fatty paddocks with a garden lawnmower set to the lowest possible cut before allowing a horse on it. I would get 2 x 120L wheelbarrow loads of cuttings off a patch the size you've put him on.
 
I honestly appreciate everyone's views and I can see that most people are of the same opinion. Following the Blue Crosses advice from their 'fat horse slim' campaign -

44323bf9ed5ff3911d3cba2fb0f0c6f9_zpss2deqf1u.jpg


Now the above says a 15hh cob should be 470-530. A 15hh tb should be 400-470. Let's say he is somewhere in between these two - so I think my target weight of 480 is acceptable (of course also taking into account the actual visual exam as well).

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From the above, he is somewhere between 3 and 4, being honest probably closer to 4. He is, according to this, NOT obese. I accept that he IS overweight. And I am taking action to rectify this. I unfortunately have seen lots of obese horses and this he is not. I do think the term obese is thrown around a lot at the minute and I do resent people saying my treatment is bordering neglectful. I have identified the issue and am resolving it.
 
For my tuppence worth he is definitely not a 3 on a condition score. He is anything but a healthy weight at the moment. Most definitely a 4. But you are on it. I would also say a cob is much heavier boned than yours so I would look at aiming for a lower weight.
In terms of paddock I would seriously cut that size down and get it eaten to bare minimum by another horse. That green grass ... Eek.
Don't know if you've already got it but there is a laminitis risk app that you can use to judge the current sugars in grass. I find it very helpful for my section c who has to be seriosuly limited during the summer.
Good luck Op. not judging, just giving my little ha'pennies worth.
 
Michen said:
Urgh how is it fair that my lean fit horse has stress lami and yours has been through the same (with the over trim of the feet), is dangerously overweight and gets away with it.
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Michen, I understand the horrible time your having and have a lot of sympathy for you as I know how much the whole Torres situation upset you.

But you post is quite rude.

My pony only has to look at a blade of grass and he puts weight on. I have tried (and yes, unfortunately failed) to keep the weight off. He gets sufficient exercise, was on restricted grazing through the winter and has absolutely no hard feed. Please do not think I am ignorant and haven't spent a lot of time and effort trying to prevent this.
 
I would aim for a weight of around 430/450.
My lami boy was 550, exercised six days a week and.still went down with laminitis. Turned out he had ir and once on the tablets his weight dropped right down to 430, at one point he was 420 but that was too thin.
About 430 was perfect for him.

He was a 15:1 Appaloosa so not chunky but not thin either.

Are you rugging? If so I would take it off, my elephant is unrugged and ridden six days a week and his weight is coming off now but we have had saddle and lameness issues.
 
Slightlyconfused said:
I would aim for a weight of around 430/450.
My lami boy was 550, exercised six days a week and.still went down with laminitis. Turned out he had ir and once on the tablets his weight dropped right down to 430, at one point he was 420 but that was too thin.
About 430 was perfect for him.

He was a 15:1 Appaloosa so not chunky but not thin either.

Are you rugging? If so I would take it off, my elephant is unrugged and ridden six days a week and his weight is coming off now but we have had saddle and lameness issues.
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Thank you, very helpful and a similar sounding horse. Nope, hasn't been rugged in months now and only wore a waterproof sheet through winter when the weather was awful :/ his winter routine was in at night through winter on 2 small sections of hay soaked for 12 to 24 hrs with only a tiny handful a soaked speedy beet to carry salt. Out in a well grazed field in the day. His routine now is out 24/7 with no feed at all.
 
MasterBenedict said:
Thank you, very helpful and a similar sounding horse. Nope, hasn't been rugged in months now and only wore a waterproof sheet through winter when the weather was awful :/ his winter routine was in at night through winter on 2 small sections of hay soaked for 12 to 24 hrs with only a tiny handful a soaked speedy beet to carry salt. Out in a well grazed field in the day. His routine now is out 24/7 with no feed at all.
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The elephant is out at night and in.during the day with two slices of soaked hay as he just balloons on 24/7 and I can't catch the bleeping thing either.

This is him, he has gone down a girth size, since having his new saddle has made a huge difference to.hia work load. But we have only had it a month and couldnt just push him into loads of work as it will cause more stifle problems.
You can't see form the picture but you can.juat start to feel his ribs, he has a fat pad behind the shoulder that is slowly reducing and his neck has slimmed down alot with still a bit to go.

He had six weeks off again due to stifle playing up and it locking up again. Thankfully scanning it he hadn't torn his ligament again



 
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I actually think the henneke scale (1-9) is better
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henneke_horse_body_condition_scoring_system

On the 1 to 5 I would say yours is easily a 4 and a 7-8 on the henneke - difficult without getting your hands on and working out quite how well covered those ribs are.

If you cannot track him please consider muzzling.

Frank is out at night muzzled and in during the day muzzled on hay. I feed him on top because for him it isn't only his weight but the grass effecting his feet I worry about. You can see a shadow of slight ribs when he is stood still and certainly when on the move.
 
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Slightlyconfused said:
The elephant is out at night and in.during the day with two slices of soaked hay as he just balloons on 24/7 and I can't catch the bleeping thing either.

This is him, he has gone down a girth size, since having his new saddle has made a huge difference to.hia work load. But we have only had it a month and couldnt just push him into loads of work as it will cause more stifle problems.
You can't see form the picture but you can.juat start to feel his ribs, he has a fat pad behind the shoulder that is slowly reducing and his neck has slimmed down alot with still a bit to go.

He had six weeks off again due to stifle playing up and it locking up again. Thankfully scanning it he hadn't torn his ligament again



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He is absolutely lovely, what's his breeding?

ester said:
I actually think the henneke scale (1-9) is better
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henneke_horse_body_condition_scoring_system

On the 1 to 5 I would say yours is easily a 4 and a 7-8 on the henneke - difficult without getting your hands on and working out quite how well covered those ribs are.

If you cannot track him please consider muzzling.

Frank is out at night muzzled and in during the day muzzled on hay. I feed him on top because for him it isn't only his weight but the grass effecting his feet I worry about. You can see his ribs when he is stood still.
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I wish I could muzzle but the flipping thing will not keep it on. Along with fly masks :( tried every trick in the book but he just won't have it. Track may be possible, I will look into this.
 
It is worth considering, I put one up when transitioning frank so he wasn't doing any work in march/april/may etc and they were at the back of the house. You could visibly watch them so much more.
I have just left a very cross welshie as he has had to go back to his dinkyponies muzzle tonight as someone has bitten his nostril and his shires will rub. He has forgotten the technique required is a bit different and kept coming up to me to demonstrate it not working while I poo picked!
 
He is a 16:3 British Appaloosa with a.good amount of bone, need to learn how to measure bone, so even when in the flesh he is perfect weight he will look fat on photo because of it. I had the same problem with my Welsh mare.
 
MasterBenedict said:
I honestly appreciate everyone's views and I can see that most people are of the same opinion. Following the Blue Crosses advice from their 'fat horse slim' campaign -

44323bf9ed5ff3911d3cba2fb0f0c6f9_zpss2deqf1u.jpg


Now the above says a 15hh cob should be 470-530. A 15hh tb should be 400-470. Let's say he is somewhere in between these two - so I think my target weight of 480 is acceptable (of course also taking into account the actual visual exam as well).

053c21f981b3469badc61cea18b43932_zpsqrrgehn6.jpg


From the above, he is somewhere between 3 and 4, being honest probably closer to 4. He is, according to this, NOT obese. I accept that he IS overweight. And I am taking action to rectify this. I unfortunately have seen lots of obese horses and this he is not. I do think the term obese is thrown around a lot at the minute and I do resent people saying my treatment is bordering neglectful. I have identified the issue and am resolving it.
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I have been trained to condition score and if you think he's a three your deluding yourself .
He's a top end 4 based on the photos .
 
This is my boys bare paddock:

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it was poor to start with as it was the other horses winter grazing and got trashed with the wet winter. He was still only allowed access to tiny bits of it while he ate it down. He now has access to a space thats roughly 15m x 40m. He gets access to a square metre of new grass a day, but I rotate access to the new bits, so the bit he has today was the bit he ate last week so while there is some grass its very limited. Looking at how much grass is growing outside of his pen the grass is growing like mad, hes just having to walk about looking for bits to eat :)

Good doers are very hard to manage sadly! I'd much prefer a poor doer!
 
I'd get him in a treat him aggressively for laminitis (soaked hay, deep bed etc). Even if it's not that you've covered your back against it.
 
ester said:
I actually think the henneke scale (1-9) is better
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henneke_horse_body_condition_scoring_system

On the 1 to 5 I would say yours is easily a 4 and a 7-8 on the henneke - difficult without getting your hands on and working out quite how well covered those ribs are.
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Ok, this is the picture of the pony that scored a 7 on the henneke scale, how do you think it compares to my boy?

15588e5741f03126a5fed0d9115a287c_zpsr5tnqyo1.jpg



Goldenstar said:
I have been trained to condition score and if you think he's a three your deluding yourself .
He's a top end 4 based on the photos .
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Perhaps I am being deluded. I will get the weight off, weigh him and re-assess and will be interested to see the results. Will keep everyone updated.
 
MasterBenedict said:
Ok, this is the picture of the pony that scored a 7 on the henneke scale, how do you think it compares to my boy?

15588e5741f03126a5fed0d9115a287c_zpsr5tnqyo1.jpg





Perhaps I am being deluded. I will get the weight off, weigh him and re-assess and will be interested to see the results. Will keep everyone updated.
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Honestly, they are very similar! I know your boy is pb QH which does skew things a bit, but those 2 photos show 2 horses that are in very similar condition!

You also need to be aware of photos not showing the true picture. I could post lots of pics of my boy looking reasonably trim, but actually hes a massive heifer!
 
I just showed my OH who is completely non horsey but obviously has been picked up a bit from all the drama with my fat horse. He said yours looks a bit slimmer than the highland in the photo. I then showed him the video and his immediate response was "wow! That horse looks like its been pumped full of water! Its huge and fatter than Frankie, and whats wrong with it? It looks in pain"

Obviously hes non horsey but sometimes the non horsey people can point out the obvious. If a lay person can see a weight or soundness problem then it needs to be addressed
 
FrankieCob said:
Honestly, they are very similar! I know your boy is pb QH which does skew things a bit, but those 2 photos show 2 horses that are in very similar condition!

You also need to be aware of photos not showing the true picture. I could post lots of pics of my boy looking reasonably trim, but actually hes a massive heifer!
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That's fine, I was genuinely asking for others opionions, not trying to say he is any slimmer than the other photo. I have seen your posts and can see we are very much in the same boat. Will be interested to see your boys progress and give me inspiration to keep going :)
 
I know you are trying to get weight off your horse and I can quite understand you feeling rather defensive but I agree with FC above, your chap is not too dissimilar to the other horse you posted as being a 7. It is the crest and loaded shoulder of your chap that would concern me if he were mine.

Unfortunately we have got used to seeing overweight horses as the norm.
 
Good luck areducing the weight.
Your paddock, imho, in far too big and too lush.
My farrier always says that if you can go in and pick the grass with your fingers, there is too much. Obviously, need to be aware of stressed short grass too.
Buy the laminitis app if you can, it's a really good Indicator of the risks, and if you can stable in the mornings when it's often the highest risk, all the better, appreciate may not be possible with other commitments.
 
Sorry OP my bad, brain is fried. It's just frustrating that we've both had horses trimmed too short and mine is not in any way a typical laminitis risk- if there's any bad luck to be had I always get it!

Good luck with your boy.
 
Michen said:
Sorry OP my bad, brain is fried. It's just frustrating that we've both had horses trimmed too short and mine is not in any way a typical laminitis risk- if there's any bad luck to be had I always get it!

Good luck with your boy.
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Thank you. Chin up, I really hope your boy gets sorted quickly bless him, sounds very sore. Hopefully a little r+r and he will be ok. How are you going about treating him?
 
Deep bed, box rest and reassess Monday. Lots of Bute. X Ray's if no improvement.

Just a thought if your boy is still sore you could buy some hoof boots off eBay with some pads to allievate the soreness at the moment until he's gotten over it.. You shouldn't lose any money if you buy second hand and then re sell.

MasterBenedict said:
Thank you. Chin up, I really hope your boy gets sorted quickly bless him, sounds very sore. Hopefully a little r+r and he will be ok. How are you going about treating him?
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