Lameness help - hock and stifle!!!

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Following on from my post this afternoon:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2495875/an/0/page/2/gonew/1#UNREAD

Ok, so Grace has also had her hock nerve blocked and this seemed to make her even more even in her strides (from what I could gather on the phone). Peter is going to continue his investigations tomorrow, which I am presuming to be xrays, scans etc etc.

But I am racking my brains wondering what could cause lameness in the hock, and yet the horse be completely negative on flexions (done today and on Friday!)
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It was awful going up to the yard and her not being there tonight... this is the first time she has stayed away from home since she came to me
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It is always odd when they arn't there, isn't it? Don't worry, she'll be home soon.

Have a look at my reply to your earlier post. Could it be OCD in both joints?

At least she is at the very best place and it shouldn't be long til you find out exactly what is going on.

(Hugs)
 
I hope it is something straightforward, but it sounds like she is in the best place. Fingers crossed that she'll be ok to carry on dressaging, as you've been doing so well together.
I'm kind of making the decision to stop competing my horse now as i'm not sure he's completely comfortable behind, but he's a lot older than Grace and it wouldn't be fair for you to have to do the same.
 
OCD osteochondritis dissicans is a developmental abnormality of cartilage and bone. It can occur when young horses develop ie if they grow too quickly or are overfed. I think it's when the cartilage doesn't form properly.
 
But would that not show up on a flexion test? It was done twice on both hocks today, and twice on Friday with both days showing absolutely no change whatsoever. I don't know anything about it, just reading a bit now in my lameness book
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has he ruled out the stifle now thinking it's the hock? Whatever it is it sounds as if the unlevelness is slight. Try not to worry too much, but sometimes it seems as if vets start finding no end of things once you start looking.
 
I don't know to be honest whether he has now ruled out the stifle
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I spoke to one of the receptionists I think as opposed to him. He is supposed to be phoning me when he has a positive piece of news as opposed to theories. At least I know she has her own rug and tea/breakfast (took them with me) and she was pretty chilled when I left her.

The thing is, did the stifle improve because she has already been lunged once therefore loosened whatever it is off?!

But she was definitely negative in both hocks this afternoon and Friday when flexioned... I watched very very carefully and he also said the same thing.
 
I hope it's nothing serious but like I said in reply to your origional post you are in danger of opening up a whole can of worms here and you could end up with a huge bill and an uninsurable horse. The unlevelness is obviously slight and she has been getting good marks in dressage so the judges haven't noticed anything. It still could be something simple like a tweaked muscle and she is compensating for it.
 
I am not doing it via my insurance at the moment... If it gets too much then of course, I will have to claim for some of it. I don't think this vet is the type who would just keep finding things, he has been very highly recommended to me, and is well thought of amongst people who have used him. At least I hope he isn't
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I am not saying he will find things for the sake of it but he may find things that will never affect her working potential but these investigations obviously cost a lot of money and if you have to claim off of insurance they end up excluding everything which could be remotely connected. We had a horse with a stress fracture and had an arthroscopy. They ended up excluding both fetlocks and bone cysts in any limb.
 
I don't know when she is coming home, it depends whether he finds any answers tomorrow. If he does, I will go and pick her up tomorrow afternoon some time, but if not hopefully by the weekend
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Our brood mare Maddie had a spavin in her hock as a result of an injury, however it was only detected on x-rays. She was not lame on a flexion test.

I'm not saying that Grace has got this but a negative flexion test doesn't always rule conditions out.

Hope it is good news.
x
 
Flexion tests dont make every sort of lameness worse.

Fingers crossed they find out more tomorrow, sounds like theyre going about it in a very logical way.
 
I know they don't make every lameness worse, but I thought they made OCD worse
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Then again, I also thought spavins in the hock would show up on a flexion, but now know that is not the case after reading Worried1's post
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Could it be a spur or bone chip? If its not all the time and isnt affected by flexion I wonder if its something floating around?

Seems like you have her in the best place tho!
 
They would show up on an xray wouldn't they?

I think I'll phone in the morning to see what the next action is going to be... I feel like I am mithering, but it is hard when I am so far away
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Even if it is OCD, it is by no means the end of her dressage career. Without going into specific details, there are several advanced horses currently competing that have had OCD. Usually it only causes problems when the joint is changing and is no problem once it has settled.

You'd have though that if it was something serious the harder work that you have been doing with her recently would have made it much worse than it is at the moment.

Fingers crossed you get some good news tomorrow and it turns out to be something really minor.
 
Yeah it should do

Give them a call in the morning and see what the next plan of action is! Am sure she is enjoying her night away the posh pony spa/retreat!!
 
Personally I'd just try to stop panicking and wait for Peter to find out exactly what's wrong - easier said than done I know (We've all been there and it's awful isn't it!) IMHO you've got Grace with the best lameness vet around - he'll figure out what's what before you know it - If it is OCD I know of a few horses that Peter has operated on which are now competing BD - so please try not to worry.
I've got everything crossed for you.
Kate x
 
Thank you Kate... it is good hearing people speaking highly of Peter. I had never heard of him before this, but the lady who organises the Spencer clinic took her horse there after a long time of intermittent lameness, and he diagnosed it and he is now on the mend.

It is this waiting that is killing me... I had hoped I would know a bit more today, so another day of waiting was not on my list
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That is probably why I feel worse about it.

Have you used him too Kate?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I know they don't make every lameness worse, but I thought they made OCD worse
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Then again, I also thought spavins in the hock would show up on a flexion, but now know that is not the case after reading Worried1's post
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[/ QUOTE ]

Patches "passed" her flexions but had the changes of spavin showing in both hocks, the right more so.

Have you been given an indication of the costs for the tests she's having now? When Patches was assessed which included just Flexions, nerve blocks, lungeing and x-rays the costs were approaching £600. That was before the hocks were treated and she'd had her course of Adequan etc.

Being totally pedantic (because someone "in" insurance is bound to point this out) you technically should disclose the treatment and investigations for lameness to your insurers regardless of whether you claim for them or not. If you claim for the same type of thing in a couple of years, they will ask for a report from your vet to state she's never been investigated for that lameness before etc. If they say she has, they might not pay out.

Good luck with the tests though. I really hope it's nothing serious. Hugs to you and healing vibes to Grace.
 
No, I have not asked how much it will come to because I don't think anyone is 100% sure what it is that is causing it. Until they know that, I don't think they would be able to give me an idea of how much it will come to.

Horse insurance really annoys me... any other insurance (including my health insurance) allows the area to be treated repeatedly, whether for the same thing or not. My neck has been treated for C2 and C3 injuries and I have now had physio, paid for by BUPA, for 3 years. BUPA have also just paid for the two lumps to be removed privately!

It annoys me that you pay the same premium in horse insurance and yet they can make certain things uninsurable which I think is a total disgrace. A friend's horse did a tendon in one leg, then had issues with the same leg but nothing to do with the tendon. Her insurance company would not pay out for the second thing! Another friend's foal had life saving emergency colic surgery at 2am, and the insurance company are being funny about paying any because she didn't ring and request permission to carry out the procedure! All she could think about was saving her 4 months old foal's life!

Rant over
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I totally agree with you.

Do you know what else really gripes me? When you've claimed, they not only exclude the injury/illness claimed for but also hike up your excess.

Now, forgive me my layman's logic, but if they've excluded the "problem" on renewal you are no more likely to making a claim for anything than the next person. I could understand the excess going up if they didn't exclude, but by excluding they reduce the risk you re-claiming anyway.

Do you see my angst? My insurance excess used to be £120 and now it's £250 on all three horses on my policy, even though I've only ever made a claim on one of those horses.
 
I have never once made a claim on any of mine... but when I insured Troy, because they wanted a vet write up to say he was healthy etc., the vets had to declare his little (or not so little) operation on his willie. Guess what, that is excluded for a year and the vet has to write and confirm that everything is working as it should be after that time and then they will reconsider
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Insurance companies suck! We managed to sort out an exlcusion on my mare eventually as she went to a top clinic about something else and they did a full health report, in which it stated that her leg issue was fully repaired. So we sent it off and after much discussion they removed the exclusion - what a b****y joke tho eh! Its like you are begging for the world!!
 
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