lameness in right fore..at a loss

[hock]

Oh my goodness she’s heartbreakingly beautiful. Super model in horse form beautiful.

So the thing that would really upset me is not having a diagnosis. It’s the thing I would still be thinking about in 10 years time late at night. So I’d MRI her which I would pay off weekly/monthly providing her pain is manageable, ie pain free whilst arranging an mri to be carried out. If she’s in pain now that can’t be managed I would be calling it a day today.

I had my horse pts at Newmarket when we found out he was a wobbler and likely to be in considerable pain. It was agony losing him and I hadnt developed the relationship you have with your beautiful mare, we hadn’t had him long and he was with my trainer. But I sleep at night knowing that nothing more could be done for him and as soon as I had all the facts he was put to sleep.

I think sod the bf, he should be supporting you not moaning about things he knows nothing about. My OH is a horror at times but he would totally support me in your situation and he might be worried about the finances but he wouldn’t allow that to cloud the judgement for doing the right thing first of all for your mare and then for you. But worry about him another day.
So in your shoes MRI, you need to be able to look back with peace of mind that you did everything you could.

 

[Jellymoon]

OP, please don’t bankrupt yourself and jeopardise your relationship just because you need a diagnosis. I completely get the need for answers, but you can go on forever and there will rarely be a definitive answer with horses. You will cope without a diagnosis because in time you will realise you did the right thing for your horse, I promise.

The vet said, if it were his he would MRI ‘if it was affordable’. Is it affordable? Honestly? Only you can answer that one.

And I do think the people in our lives matter, the family and partners who support our obsessive hobby both financially and emotionally.

 

[ycbm]

maybe i'm in denial?

To be blunt, yes, I'm sorry, I think you are.

So the thing that would really upset me is not having a diagnosis.

The diagnosis will be front foot only. There is already a diagnosis for the two back legs, which have been extensively treated and yet remain badly lame.
.

 

[hock]

To be blunt, yes, I'm sorry, I think you are.



The diagnosis will be front foot only. There is already a diagnosis for the two back legs, which have been extensively treated and yet remain badly lame.
.

Yes.

 

[Tiddlypom]

So in your shoes MRI, you need to be able to look back with peace of mind that you did everything you could.

OP has already done far more than most would with a terminally broken horse.

Guilt tripping her into spending money she hasn't got on possibly (no guarantees) finding out about just one more of many serious issues that this horse has won't affect the end result.

 

[hock]

OP has already done far more than most would with a terminally broken horse.

Guilt tripping her into spending money she hasn't got on possibly (no guarantees) finding out about just one more of many serious issues that this horse has won't affect the end result.

Guilt tripping? What a bizarre thing to think and say. Really not the time for weird untrue accusations on such a sad thread.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I am sorry your having to face this its not easy and I know it feels it almost takes over your whole life just thinking about it and not knowing what to do for the best.

I think unless she can be field sound with the hind end lameness if you manage to sort out the foreleg the mri is not really worth doing its a lot of money.

I would get your old x rays to your new vet just so its a fresh set of eyes and there being a slim chance they may see something that may change things.

I had a big warmblood mare she was hopping lame infront after a field injury, she had an mri which showed a ddft tear just at the back of the pastern, vet thought it was an old injury like before I had her as the scar tissue was extensive, she wasn't a candidate for any surgery or stem cell only option was steroids but she had cushings and ems so I retired her at 15.

I already did 3 lots of box rest and rehab each time after about 3 months she would go lame so I got her field sound and she lived out quite happily for about 10 months, she did actually look sound when she was running round the field she really could move but the leg just wouldn't stand up to work, unfortunately I lost her to laminitis in 2015 we had 6 years together.

Sometimes you just can't fix them its bloody heartbreaking and I still miss her ?.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Guilt tripping? What a bizarre thing to think and say. Really not the time for weird untrue accusations on such a sad thread.

I think the point is that it's likely the OP already has done all they reasonably can (emphasis on reasonably) for this horse so they don't need to do anything further to look back and think they did everything they could have. I don't think anyone here would blame the OP if they decide the end of the journey is here, painful as that is.

OP I hope you can see from this thread (and I think another running on here on Laminitis) that you are not alone in facing this tough decision, and that it is okay to be considering the wider impact (financial, emotional, relationships) of keeping going on yourself as well as on your lovely horse. I have no personal experience but have read good things about https://www.bhs.org.uk/our-work/welfare/our-campaigns/friends-at-the-end from those who have been through it so this may be another source of support to you.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

OP, bute will not be helping your mare's ulcers but if I were you, I would give her Aloe Vera juice in her feed to line her stomach and help her to feel a bit better day-to-day, while you are waitng for your vet to look at x-rays etc.
Remember that your vet said he would have the MRI done if it were affordable. You have already told us that it isn't affordable, you would have to pay for it on a payment plan, which would mean that you can't save towards the deposit for a home with your partner.
If he is 'the one', is that really fair to him? As it isn't going to make any difference to the prognosis. If it might point up a treatment plan, I would be the first to say 'have the scan' but it really won't because whatever is going on in her front foot, her hind legs are known to be unsound. I'm so sorry.

ETA, I have had several horses pts, young and old and it is never easy but if it is in the best interests of the horse, it has to be done by a responsible owner.

 

[Equi]

I completely understand the want to do everything you can, because if there is ever a tiny hope we want to cling to it. Eventually you reach the breaking point though. My boy had issues for years, my vet was here once a month at least for the last year of his life. He was always interesting because it was never the same thing over and over so I don’t feel bad that I did so much because each thing did work. The final time he came (3 weeks after hock injections where vet said he actually looked better than normal on flexion) he had a seriously lame hind and vet could tell it was suspensory ligament f***ed - which was his original issue and was a ticking time bomb really. I was given the option to scan, find out how bad it was etc. But treatment would have been the same ie months and months of boxrest possibly to make a field ornament - but he would still need the 4 steroids in hocks/fetlocks all through, the remedial farrier for his horrific hooves, the £80 a month supplement that had made a big difference to him, the uv protection and lotions for skin, soaked hay etc cause he had to stay slim to reduce lami risk with so many steroids. And I only may possibly get him sound for the field. So I declined the scan and he was pts the next morning. I won’t lie and say it was a relief, it utterly broke me and I wasn’t in a good place afterwards for a long while. But I at no point regret what I did. I thought once or twice maybe I should have scanned, then immediately thought again that it would not have changed anything nor my decision. It was just his time.

now that I have a sound healthy horse who doesn’t need any extra “help” it’s such a different life. I try not to look behind me every time I walk him to catch what legs broken today. I can plan to ride because I’m not waiting until I see him to decide if he’s lame or not. He can go out to the field without a super annoying uv rug and muzzle. I miss my old boy so much he was the love of my life but I am satisfied that I did what I could for him and he had a great life with me and went out looking a million bucks and pain free (ie drugged to the eyeballs and refusing to be caught by yard staff because he was having a jolly good time feeling fabulous until he finally ran to his stable then realised his leg wasn’t actually working ??)

it never going to be easy but what I did find was that the decision worked it’s way into my head for weeks before and so when it happened I just said yes. I had a gut feeling this was coming I had cried to friends and yo who all said but he’s fine right now? Yeah he was. But I just knew it was coming.

stay strong and do what is best for your horse.

 

[throwawayaccount]

Thankyou everyone for sharing your stories, giving support and kind words. I don’t have the same realism from people in real life so it helps to know I can discuss everything candidly here and have genuine advice in return,



everything has been sent over from my old vets now, and my old vet sent an email which some may find of interest:

“…When we originally saw her in June 2020 the RF was her predominantly lame limb (although she was lame on both front limbs). She was blocked at that stage to the foot RF and subsequently the coffin joint. However after the prolonged treatment for the suspensory branch injury in her left fore she was no longer lame RF. This RF lameness was not seen again on examination until 10th June 2021, (presumably when the work was able to be increased). This was the last time I saw her at the clinic, so I don’t know how this compares to the RF lameness now seen”.

I think back in June, before the steroid treatment, she was only slightly off on her right fore (in comparison to how she is now) and she was in work a few times a week, 20-30 minutes at the most.

when I bought her, it was to be a riding club type horse. All I wanted to do was go round Somerford farm ride and have fun. My hopes then lowered to happy hacker and honestly I thoroughly enjoyed “just” hacking out. It was freedom and fun and we were happy.

since June, I have lowered my expectations again. I don’t care if I can’t ride, I’m grateful for the times I was able to. First and foremost I want her to be comfortable and happy. I would say I’m making her as comfortable as can be for now and she’s always happy to see me, she isn’t withdrawn or in a shell

I’m going to phone my new vet tomorrow as I think they’re coming to the yard anyway as I do want to have another chat

I will be going ahead with the MRI because I am the type of person to torture myself if I won’t know. And I need to know for her sake.
My vet did say, the prognosis was not good for if I wanted to ride, I asked if we could get her to be a field horse and he was reasonably confident about having this as a plan

which I’m happy about. I don’t mind shelling out money. A lot of people have criticised me (not on here) for ages because I’m forking out money for a horse I can’t do much with

at the end of the day she’s my best friend and of course if she gets worse and the vet says the kindest thing is to let her go, I’ll make sure she has a lovely last day and do the right thing. I owe her that much.

im trying to think as positively as I can for the moment. Every minute I appreciate with her, as I always have done. Im taking lots of photos and videos too

my mum is visiting her on Saturday for the first time ever (I am picking her up to visit), my mum is old now and it will mean a lot to me to have this moment and having a nice day as a family .

as much as I love my boyfriend he is simply not attached to animals which is fine but can come across as cold. I get his perspective and the maturity and logical perception. He has given me grief about her vet treatments since the start. I’m not saying it wasn’t with good reason. We’ve been together since I had my old horses and I’ve always gone above and beyond for them.

i will admit I’m frightened of if the chapter does come to pts. When my gelding was pts it traumatised me. I became obsessed with death and wanted to die myself. I kept going for my childhood pony, ruined myself and became an essential zombie.

I just want to try my best and live in the knowledge I’m continuing to do what I can.

I promise I am listening to the advice given here, I’m not sticking my head in the sand. I simply am trying to explore all avenues and do what’s right by my girl. I’ve promised her that from the start, it won’t change at the end.

she is honestly my everything. I never thought I’d bond with a horse again the same way but she’s so special to me.

I can see from what I’ve written it’s clear I’m unstable at the moment and not really in a good place, so struggling to be 100% clear. But I’m trying. A chat with my vet tomorrow will help and having Saturday to look forward to.

Thankyou everyone x

Also I don’t think anyone is guilt tripping me here, I think everyone just wants the best for me and that means a lot. Sorry for not replying individually this time to you all but I have read every post. And aloe Vera juice is definitely on the list to buy. X

 

[Equi]

At the end of the day it’s your choice and the choices you are making are what you think is right for both you and the horse - no one can criticise you for that. I hope the mri gives you some clarity and peace of mind. Try and take care of yourself, don’t be afraid to talk to someone there are plenty of helplines etc like the bhs one. Big hugs.

 

[Equi]

Also to add, gut feelings mean a lot to me. Yours is obviously saying do the mri. Don’t discount those internal feelings (as I said I had the bad one for weeks before anything actually happened, sometimes we just know before)

 

[throwawayaccount]

Also to add, gut feelings mean a lot to me. Yours is obviously saying do the mri. Don’t discount those internal feelings (as I said I had the bad one for weeks before anything actually happened, sometimes we just know before)

Thankyou for your replies, I agree about the gut feelings. I know something isn’t quite right and it’s something I want to go ahead with for her sake,

I do find it hard to take care of myself and I run myself ragged, at the yard 3 times a day plus working full time and everything else. Sometimes I just come home and sleep. It isn’t healthy how I’m being so I do need to try and sort something really x

also forgot to put on my post, that I know it’s better a day too soon than a day too late etc and I will always be baring this in mind. X

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I'm glad that you have decided on a way forward, even though it is not what I would do.

Please now can I suggest that you get some support for yourself? It sounds as if you would beneift from a chat with your GP and a referral for counselling, you may be able to get counselling through your employer's Occupational Health provider. I have no experience of BHS Friends at the End but the service sounds as if it is something that you would would find helpful. Sadly, it is highly likely when we take on any pet that we will outlive the animal. That means that we have to find ways of coping with pts and with making the decision in a timely manner in the best interests of the animal. Your post really doesn't read as if you are able to do that currently but your horse's medical history makes it more than likely that you will need to make the decision in the near future. Please for your own sake, find some support before that time comes and remember ycbm's offer to be with you on the day.

 

[hock]

“I am the sort of person to torture myself if I don’t know” … this is how I would feel but put far more eloquently by you.
Advice/support is given without any expectations and updates are great but are only necessary if you’re feeling up to it. Wishing you both the very best.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm glad that you have decided on a way forward, even though it is not what I would do.

Please now can I suggest that you get some support for yourself? It sounds as if you would beneift from a chat with your GP and a referral for counselling, you may be able to get counselling through your employer's Occupational Health provider. I have no experience of BHS Friends at the End but the service sounds as if it is something that you would would find helpful. Sadly, it is highly likely when we take on any pet that we will outlive the animal. That means that we have to find ways of coping with pts and with making the decision in a timely manner in the best interests of the animal. Your post really doesn't read as if you are able to do that currently but your horse's medical history makes it more than likely that you will need to make the decision in the near future. Please for your own sake, find some support before that time comes and remember ycbm's offer to be with you on the day.

I agree with the this but realistically it can take months to be seen via the NHS. BHS Friends at the end are really good too, although I've not needed to use them myself.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I agree with the this but realistically it can take months to be seen via the NHS. BHS Friends at the end are really good too, although I've not needed to use them myself.

That's why I suggested the Occupational Health route and BHS. In some areas you can self-refer to IAPT, they run a triage system and will take the most urgent cases first.

 

[throwawayaccount]

i've had counselling via work before, which helped. I agree I do need something proper in place, so may see if I can get access to more sessions (but perhaps with someone else)

vet came back out yesterday for a general checkup. she trotted up slightly better. she then managed to nick herself in the leg from her exuberant movement- she is very fresh!

we're scheduling for the MRI hopefully in a few weeks time. dependent on that we can decide what to do with her. he isn't happy with her left hind as it swells (it always has when she's in and gets worse the more she's in). this is the one that had cellulitis aswell

plan of action:
1. book in for MRI- done, think it'll be leahurst in a few weeks time
2. continue with ulcer treatment if needed- she's being rescoped next week. this is to keep her as comfortable as possible
3. when MRI rolls around, depending on what is found we can work out what to do with her. (field pony, occasional light hack or PTS)
4. we may scan the back suspensorys if there's no significant improvement in her movement and either field pony/light hack is an option for her.

i've been told to continue with her shoeing to continue to give her as much support as possible, i'm a little hesitant on this because I think £80 is a lot for a horse stood in the stable. She is due. just wondering if it matters if shes barefoot for a few weeks while boxrested, and if needed can have the shoes back on?

i appreciate the above isn't what some others would go ahead with, I just want to give her the best chance at a quality of life rather than give up and regret not trying as much as I can.

i've been hammering overtime at work so i'll be OK.

xx

 

[Sossigpoker]

It doesn't matter what others would do in your shoes, you've got a plan in place and that's great , that's positive.
And it sounds like you're prepared for the outcome of the MRI not being going too , which I always sensible.

Ulcers are usually secondary to pain somewhere else in the body so it is unlikely the ulcers will go away or stop reappearing as long as the other issues are ongoing, so don't be upset if the scope result isn't good. The treatment will of course make her tummy feel better.

Good luck with the MRI and hopefully it will give you some answers!

 

[ycbm]

i've been told to continue with her shoeing to continue to give her as much support as possible

What does anyone think the shoes will support?

She's not working, not expected to cope with rough surfaces, and the ground will support more of her foot than a shoe will. Unless it will affect diagnosis (for example by her trotting up unsound due to sore feet) then I can't see what good shoes are doing.

I'm glad you've got a plan and I hope you get the best answer possible from it.
.

 

[Regandal]

I’d whip the shoes off as well, it will save a few pounds and give her feet a break.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would take her shoes off while she is on box-rest - perfect opportunity! I'm not sure that I would have her scoped again either, I would give her an ulcer friendly diet with Aloe Vera juice or if the vet will rprescribe it without scoping, whatever meds he feels appropriate. I would want to keep her as comfortable as possible and I can't see that re-scoping is going to help with that.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I read your thread and didn't feel I could add anything more than what others have already suggested. So sorry for the situation you find yourself in, my heart is with you and your beautiful horse. There will never be a right or wrong way forward but for what it's worth, I would leave shoes off and try everything possible before giving up. I wish you luck.

 

[throwawayaccount]

thanks everyone x

quick update.. on friday, I got down and found my mare had a cut above her eye- so I can only assume she's started self harming in the stable. she was also getting really difficult to manage again- not allowing me to groom or really do anything with her. she was going bananas, and fortunately my vet was on the yard seeing another client. i asked if she could go out in the herd, because i knew if she went in the sick paddock she'd probably cause herself further distress. he agreed and so i popped on her bridle and led her down to the field. she was so strong but so happy to be out, and be a horse. a shoe flew off, so she only has 3 on. farrier will be sorting her soon, i've left her in the field up until last night, brought her in for a break and a check over and put her back out this morning.

anyway, its kind of changed my decision about the MRI. I got a quote through which was more than I'd been told, and then factoring in two days of transport for a few hundred pounds.. i've decided against it. I simply don't think theres any point. i'm going to have her shoes taken off, keep her in the field as much as I can and look for a retirement livery.

can't insert a photo for some reason into my post, but here is a cropped photo of her playing with her friends- not sure their owners would want me posting their horse over the internet, but in the original image they were trotting/cantering along with her.

click for photo here

if anyone knows of a retirement livery in cheshire please let me know. x

edit- forgot to add, decided against rescoping etc. no point..

 

[tristar]

i`m another take the shoes off, let the underneath of her feet, sole and frog grow strong and keep her toes short, cures loads of problems

 

[HashRouge]

thanks everyone x

quick update.. on friday, I got down and found my mare had a cut above her eye- so I can only assume she's started self harming in the stable. she was also getting really difficult to manage again- not allowing me to groom or really do anything with her. she was going bananas, and fortunately my vet was on the yard seeing another client. i asked if she could go out in the herd, because i knew if she went in the sick paddock she'd probably cause herself further distress. he agreed and so i popped on her bridle and led her down to the field. she was so strong but so happy to be out, and be a horse. a shoe flew off, so she only has 3 on. farrier will be sorting her soon, i've left her in the field up until last night, brought her in for a break and a check over and put her back out this morning.

anyway, its kind of changed my decision about the MRI. I got a quote through which was more than I'd been told, and then factoring in two days of transport for a few hundred pounds.. i've decided against it. I simply don't think theres any point. i'm going to have her shoes taken off, keep her in the field as much as I can and look for a retirement livery.

can't insert a photo for some reason into my post, but here is a cropped photo of her playing with her friends- not sure their owners would want me posting their horse over the internet, but in the original image they were trotting/cantering along with her.

click for photo here

if anyone knows of a retirement livery in cheshire please let me know. x

edit- forgot to add, decided against rescoping etc. no point..

She's a beautiful girl and looks super happy to be out! I'd be inclined to get the rest of the shoes off and just see how she goes turned out. If you can see visible lameness in walk and trot, I would be cautious about retirement without any further diagnostics/ treatment, but if she seems reasonably sound and happy, then crack on! What does your vet say about retiring her to the field, out of interest? Do they think she is currently sound enough for this?
I have got one retired through lameness and it is the best decision we ever made (he is my sister's, but lives with me and my veteran mare). He used to be the cause of endless stress, money and hard work, and now he is a delightful field ornament who I spoil rotten and hasn't taken a lame step in years.

Re retirement livery - I'm sure people will be along with some recommendations but this is not the only option for a retired horse. You can also look at things like grass livery, or even just a normal livery yard with very good turnout and services. I did look at two retirement yards in the Cheshire area about 8 years ago, but decided to keep her myself in the end (this is my veteran mare). The first was Cheshire Retirement Livery - they were very nice and had lots of turnout and seemed to be looking after the horses very well. It was just a very big operation and I didn't think the horses would get much one on one. The other was Balterley Stables, which was much smaller and I think would have offered a bit more 1-1 care. The grass turnout looked very muddy when I was there though. The owner was very nice. Both of these possibly worth a look.

I actually ended up moving to the other end of the country and just put a "wanted" ad on the livery and grazing page on facebook. I ended up at a great livery yard, not specifically DIY, where I currently graze my two with one companion, with very good grazing summer and winter and option to live out all year round, but also option to stable as and when required. Plus a YO on hand to offer services whenever needed.

Good luck anyway, whatever you decide

 

[ycbm]

I'm glad you've been able to make a clear decision and see a way forward that won't bankrupt you, TA. I'm sorry it isn't a better result for you, but congratulate you on being the first person in this horse's life in many years who is doing the right thing by her.
.

 

[throwawayaccount]

Reviving my old thread!

just a bit of an update. I fully rested my mare until February this year to give her a chance of just being a horse. I thought she still didn’t seem right, and so I got my new vet to visit and do X-rays/a work up. Surprisingly to me and him she had actually improved - not what I was expecting! She was started on cartrophen and had 4 shoes put back on.

simply said my new vet and the cartrophen & shoes have given her a new lease of life, she moves the best she ever will, is withstanding light work and is the happiest she’s been.

of course we will have to see how she goes and as always as long as she’s happy/comfortable she is able to live her life. I owe her everything and she’ll want for nothing.

I’m beyond grateful to my vet and of course the advice and support from all of you, particularly ycbm who came and visited and puts up with my random PM’s



thank you from both of us x

 

[Birker2020]

Reviving my old thread!

just a bit of an update. I fully rested my mare until February this year to give her a chance of just being a horse. I thought she still didn’t seem right, and so I got my new vet to visit and do X-rays/a work up. Surprisingly to me and him she had actually improved - not what I was expecting! She was started on cartrophen and had 4 shoes put back on.

simply said my new vet and the cartrophen & shoes have given her a new lease of life, she moves the best she ever will, is withstanding light work and is the happiest she’s been.

of course we will have to see how she goes and as always as long as she’s happy/comfortable she is able to live her life. I owe her everything and she’ll want for nothing.

I’m beyond grateful to my vet and of course the advice and support from all of you, particularly ycbm who came and visited and puts up with my random PM’s

View attachment 89393

thank you from both of us x

Great news, nice to have a 'friend' on the forum too.