lameness - opinions please

X

xStephx

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2012
Messages
101
Visit site
Hi all, I'm after some opinions on my horses lameness. Before I possibly get shot down I have had the vet and am now thinking I need to get another vet out.

Back in February / March I was lunging marley and he looked absolutely fine until he started trotting fast on a small circle. Thought perhaps he'd just bruised his sole having very thin soles and flat feet. Kept an eye on him and he improved however I noticed that after I'd brought him in groomed and tacked up etc when I then went to take him out his stable he was quite lame but walked it off. Felt a bit odd warming up but got better and seemed sound. He was also like this in the mornings when walking out the stable and I noticed he looked lame walking up the very slight incline to his field. There was a slight swelling on inside of leg just above fetlock in the mornings which would go down during the day. So I started bandaging at night and one night I left them off on purpose to see what happened well the next morning his leg was awful. So got the vet. I also discovered he had quite bad mudfever on all legs So not sure if this caused the swelling. This vet had seen him before once a very long time ago after he fractured his pedal bone and still wasn't quite right and then twice with an abcess. She told me he looked sounder than she had ever seen him and it's marley he has rubbish feet and to stop looking at his feet for problems. Obviously I then doubted myself and thought I was just seeing / feeling things. Anyway I box rested him for a week till the mudfever cleared pretty much and he seemed a bit better.

I have since carried on working him. He doesn't get worked hard but I know he is not right and I know it's in the foot. He seems to improve after warming up some days feels worse than others. Today I hacked him out in walk with a little trot and felt fine. When I turned him back out he had a trot with my other boy and was lame not horribly just a little head nod which is all it ever is. I lunged him the other night and was not right to start but as soon as he started stretching over his back I could not tell. His stride looked even to me. He had a mad canter as is feeling so well in himself and I expected him to be hopping but was fine. I trotted up yard after and was fine. I have also noticed not that I catch him very often but when he gets up after lying down he is crippled looks worse than my 21 year old who looks like a spring chicken!

My farrier suggested coffin joint arthritis and this seemed to fit but now after reading on here about collateral ligament damage I am not so sure it could be this. The only way to know I know is to get the vet but I just wondered if anyone had any similar experience. He is currently fed turmeric although I've no idea if this is doing anything!

I would be interested to take him barefoot To see if this helps but am scared he won't manage. I know it would mean a lot of rehab and looking at diet etc so not easy but have always wanted to try this with him. He is bare behind but his hinds are great. His fronts are terribly thin and flat which is why I have the problems I have now no doubt.

Sorry it's a long one.....
 
xStephx said:
This vet..... told me he looked sounder than she had ever seen him and it's marley he has rubbish feet and to stop looking at his feet for problems. .....
Click to expand...

Eh? The vet told you his feet were rubbish and so you shouldn't look at them for problems???? Surely if his feet are rubbish that would be the first place you would look for the cause of the problem. Or am I missing something?
 
You have given an absolutely perfect description of how horses with the early stages of navicular syndrome behave and a perfect description of the kind of feet that cause it.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck........ it may be a duck.

Don't despair, it's not progressive as you might be told, it can be cured. It's injury to the tendons or ligaments in the feet, caused by a weak back half of the foot. It's very difficult to cure in shoes. I suggest you start your research with rockleyfarm.blogspot.com

Lots of people on here will help you if you post a thread titled navicular syndrome in Vet.

And yes, you need to change your vet, I'm afraid.
 
If the horse is insured i would be swapping vets to get an mri (or at least an xray) of the foot and xray of pastern.
 
alibali said:
Eh? The vet told you his feet were rubbish and so you shouldn't look at them for problems???? Surely if his feet are rubbish that would be the first place you would look for the cause of the problem. Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Thanks all for the replies.

Yes I know I was quite shocked and taken aback at that comment but they were her exact words. Which just made me think I was making the whole thing up. But because I know he has rubbish feet and struggled when I first got him off the track with a pedal bone fracture that took longer to come right than it should've done I know that's why he is lame in the foot. All his lameness has always been in the foot.

I actually think it may be bilateral slightly worse in one foot though and have had navicular nagging at me in the back of my mind for a while as like you say he has perfect feet for it. Another reason why I want to look at barefoot as I have read so many horses come right going barefoot.

He is insured however he has an exclusion on the right fore for anything attributed to the pedal bone fracture. So I would have to talk with vet / insurance to find out if likely to be covered or not.

Think I'll investigate barefoot and speak with a proper trimmer not my farrier. If anyone knows of a good trimmer who covers leicestershire please let me know as I've no idea where to start.
 
Fun Times said:
If the horse is insured i would be swapping vets to get an mri (or at least an xray) of the foot and xray of pastern.
Click to expand...

Yes, there was an veterinary article recently about this type of lameness presentation, and the MRI was the only way forward.
I would start feeding those feet and get ready for removal of shoes, be prepared for the long haul, and forget about riding a lame horse.
You will probably need boots even to walk in hand, Cavallos would probably be fine.
100gms micronised linseed, 25gms salt, and a mineral from Forageplus or Pro Earth, feed a small feed all year round. No molassses or alfalfa if unshod.
 
Last edited:
I think you need a definite diagnosis so you know what you are dealing with. I'd be requesting x-rays too, I think your farrier is on the right lines.
 
I have some cavallo boots for him already for when he loses a shoe they are a god send. He is also already on two mugs of linseed mea. Feed and weight is a major problem with this boy. He won't hold weight in winter and the only thing that puts it on is grass which I know is not brilliant for barefoot. I've tried every conditioning feed with no result and also gone down the high fibre high oil, no starch and sugar route. I now feed him top spec super conditioning flakes which are basically naked oats and soya bean flakes which seemed to put the weight on but guessing these would not be barefoot friendly. Now he has weight back on he gets just over a quarter a scoop of these twice a day with Dengie hifi with apple. I was thinking of putting him on equine answers 365 for a balancer.

I do need a diagnosis to work with for sure and I will call the vets ask for a different one and have a chat about what we can do. Whether I can just have xrays or have to go down the route of nerve blocking etc.

Thanks for the contact ycbm I'll give him a call for sure and see what he thinks thinks. My boy is due to be shod next week And although I've got shows planned and really want to do a hoys qualifier in august I think I'll just have to wait.
 
Be aware that flexion, nerve blocking and x rays may not always identify the problem, but agree you need to start there. I find a lot of good articles on thehorse.com
 
Last edited:
You've nothing to lose by tackling the diet and at least getting the hoof quality and balance right. A decent hoofcare professional will be able to assist you in taking the plunge. You don't necessarily need to go 100% barefoot if that is not right for him, but I did it with my flatfooted boy and he's doing really well. His feet have totally transformed and he is looking great, 18 months on from a diagnosis of DJD in the coffin joint, although without MRI I cannot be sure that there weren't other things going on. That said, he is happy, striding out and coming slowly back in to work - I probably could have tried sooner with him, but wanted to shift a few lbs myself and wait for the warmer weather beforehand!

Anyway good luck whatever you decide - this forum is a great resource and source of support.
 
Been down the route of Newmarket and investigations before with my other boy so know how it can go. Usual vets weren't sure after lameness work up went to Newmarket had same tests plus more and then had surgery on his suspensorys. So know how this route goes and don't want to go down it again if I can help it. Didn't have the best experience. Nothing to do with the vets just Fred ended up with colic and having to go back the day after he came home which resulted in a mega vets bill.

Funnily enough I was thinking this lameness coincided with a second shoeing from a different farrier. Who is very very good and he used to shoe marley years ago but couldn't anymore when I changed yards. I moved back to the area in November and had him shod by my old farrier again. He told me how his feet were and what he needed to do to help them get better but I can't help wondering if the different way he was shod has something to do with the lameness starting........ More I think about and read the more I want to try and take him barefoot regardless.
 
Sorry my original reply wasn't very helpful, I was just very shocked at your vets comment not to look at his feet when a) he has bad feet so obviously has some issues going on there and b) something like 80 or 90% of horse lameness comes from the feet so another indicator it would be worth considering them!

Anyway now to try to be a little more helpful. Your boy present much like mine did between July and September last year. Very intermittent low grade lameness in near fore. Complicated by the fact he was/had recovered from a broken splint and severe suspensory damage to the same leg sustained from a kick in the March (2014 was not a good year for me!). So understandably thought that injury had flared up again. Eventually referred to local horsepital; nerve blocks showed low level bilateral lameness in caudal hoof. X-rays clear. Horse not insured so declined MRI as treatment would probably be the same regardless of exact diagnosis. Vet advised remedial shoeing with heart bars. My farrier couldn't make it for a week and I spent the time researching hard on the internet. Not much research available but what I found suggested long term success of remedial shoeing was around 35% and barefoot long term soundness stood at around 85%, sample sizes are small however the enormous difference had me convinced so instead of having heart bars put on I had back shoes taken off!

Long hard demanding rehab over winter walking on tarmac, 1km in hand at least twice daily (I built up to that starting with just 200 meters) and progressing after several months to riding in walk on roads. Long story short horse is now sound and we are walk/trot/cantering and doing rides of 15km at speed. Footiness and sole bruising becoming a problem now spring grass coming through, boots becoming much more necessary, its not an easy road and there are many ups and downs so Im not despairing just yet.

It is hard work and be prepared if you go the barefoot route you will be unlikely to be riding much for a while and you will have to put a lot of work in but long term it may well be worth it. TBH Id love to go down the easy route of slapping a set of shoes back on but I never will because I know my boy would end up lame again, not through bad farriery, my farrier is excellent and shoes many hard working horses and keeps them sound but because I think my boy just doesn't do well in shoes, just as some horses don't seem to do well barefoot.

Good luck with your boy, don't beat yourself up if insurance wont pay for MRI and you cant run to it.
 
I would be looking at the hoof shape and hoof balance first.

Start supplementing the diet as others have said.

If his lameness coincides with a new farrier shoeing him twice, then it's quite likely there's a subtle difference in how he's being trimmed and shod and that is causing the problem to show.

How much hoof does he grow and how often is he trimmed? Foot balance changes as the hoof grows.

The long toe/underrun heel/flat foot type of shape will exacerbate foot problems as it's putting a lot of pressure down the back tendons and into the heel area.
 
xStephx said:
I have some cavallo boots for him already for when he loses a shoe they are a god send. He is also already on two mugs of linseed mea. Feed and weight is a major problem with this boy. He won't hold weight in winter and the only thing that puts it on is grass which I know is not brilliant for barefoot. I've tried every conditioning feed with no result and also gone down the high fibre high oil, no starch and sugar route. I now feed him top spec super conditioning flakes which are basically naked oats and soya bean flakes which seemed to put the weight on but guessing these would not be barefoot friendly. Now he has weight back on he gets just over a quarter a scoop of these twice a day with Dengie hifi with apple. I was thinking of putting him on equine answers 365 for a balancer.

I do need a diagnosis to work with for sure and I will call the vets ask for a different one and have a chat about what we can do. Whether I can just have xrays or have to go down the route of nerve blocking etc.

Thanks for the contact ycbm I'll give him a call for sure and see what he thinks thinks. My boy is due to be shod next week And although I've got shows planned and really want to do a hoys qualifier in august I think I'll just have to wait.
Click to expand...


Yes you will definitely have to wait- your horse is lame!! Good luck hope you get some answers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top