Lameness - please can some experts take a look at these vids?

maletto

maletto

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Would anyone mind awfully taking a quick look at my two videos from today? I won't say the background to this case as am interested to see what you will say without!

Apologies for my ridiculous voice, and also the lack of lunge whip, would rather horse was more active in both videos really but only have two hands so this was the best I could do.

[video=youtube;44ulEyN0M-Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ulEyN0M-Y[/video]

[video=youtube;0Izf0qP8Koo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Izf0qP8Koo[/video]
 
He looks wrong in every corner to me. The kit you have on is pushing him on the forehand. The circle to the left shows more hind limb lameness than the right circle. Stiff from head to tail.
 
Looks uncomfortable particularly behind and more so on left rein. Agree with AA that the lunge equipment you have on isn't helping.
 
agreed re equipment, not helpful for diagnostic purposes. didn't think to take it off for vids, thanks for your comments.
 
the draw reins are loose, was trying to encourage him to stretch a bit (as advised by physio).

thanks all - what is it about him that looks not right behind? (sorry, I'm rubbish at this lameness stuff!)
 
Looks stiff behind, not tracking up properly, looks very uncomfortable and it's affecting his whole body, he looks like he's bracing himself against pain, he is holding his tail very noticeably to the right in both videos.
 
Bi laterally lame behind on both reins. Right hind is worse. Looks very uncomfortable. Dragging both hind toes in both walk and trot. Looks as though it is coming from higher up to me. Pelvis or stifle. But could also be hocks, but just looks higher up to me.
 
To me he looks worse on the left rein, that makes him look bilaterally lame. ( I watched the video of him on the right rein first, and thought he was just lame on off hind. )
I thought it looked from the hock in the left rein video, but after watching both I think its higher up, in his back / SI .
He looks very stiff, isn't using his back. I can see where the physio might be coming from, but I think hes too stiff/ sore to stretch and work well at the moment.
Kx
 
Thanks everyone

Right so the vet (last weds) said he was sound in straight lines on hard, 1/10 lame in walk on near hind on surface, but not "lame" in trot on the surface. He examined his legs and said they were cold and hard.

He thought the horse was quite sore over his back on the LHS (further forward than SI, just about behind where saddle sits) & to get the physio. He expressed a concern that the pain in his back was the result of something more sinister, and hoped that by treating that, we might uncover what is wrong with him - does that sound right?!

Vet also said 2x bute a day for a week, turnout in a small pen so he can't hooly around and no riding, just to exercise the horse as recommended by physio. (Bute started weds night, so these vids are after 8 sachets of bute over 4 days and IMO he actually looks more stiff than when the vet was out)

Physio (Thurs) said she didn't think he was lame in legs - she thought he was quite stiff and sore in his back and neck so she treated him with H wave (which he did not enjoy) and is coming back at the end of next week to do a treatment under sedation.

She and the vet will see him then. In the meantime, the physio advised walking in hand, lunging in the school and over poles in walk and trot and suggested to use something like a pessoa (which I didn't want to use because of mouth jabbing) to get him to stretch out and down if possible. Circe - do you think I should ditch the draw reins and lunge him with nothing instead? I feel like I'm reluctant to go against my physio's advice but I don't know!

I have no idea what to do - I'm basically at the mercy of these professionals and not having a diagnosis is driving me mad. This is the first time I've used this vet (moved from Wiltshire to London last year) and I can't even get my old vet, who I totally trusted) to see him because she's moved to Switzerland!
 
I would invest in an equi ami. It's the best bit of lunging equipment I've ever used. It addresses the problems of mouth jabbing and does not do that. You need to lunge with a lunge cavasson so as not to interfere with the action of the equi ami. Failing that, then I would try lunging him with two reins rather than one. I don't like lunging with only one rein without an equi ami because it can really damage the back if the horse has a tendency to look outwards on the circle.
 
Thank you Wagtail - one of my fellow liveries offered me her equiami to try so I will definitely try that this week

I'm lunging in my Micklem bridle here, without bit. Hopefully it will work with the equiami too. thanks again
 
maletto - he could be stiffer because he is in a confined area and unable to move around.

The Micklem is a really useful bridle. Have you checked the fit of your saddle? One thing that causes soreness in that area is a saddle that flips up and down in rising trot. It can bruise deeply.

I've never used an equiami as I'm not into using gadgets. I can achieve the same using side reins.
 
maletto said:
I'm lunging in my Micklem bridle here, without bit. Hopefully it will work with the equiami too. thanks again
Click to expand...
I use that combination and it works well.

However, to me he looks too stiff all round to be worked at all at the moment. I am using the micklem/equiami combination to rehab my lad post a hind limb injury (secondary to a foot imbalance) but he wasn't ever as as sore as yours is in the video.

I know how frustrating it is to get conflicting advice from vets, physios etc. Good luck.
 
Just had another look at the videos and there seems to be something odd going on with his left tensor fascial muscle latae muscle (the triangular one just below the point of hip). It looks in spasm to me when compared with the other side and more pronounced and 'sinuey'. What do others think?
 
Are you using Steve brooks? Just as he's the only vet in the area off the top of my head I can think of who uses Physio under deep sedation. Def feel that the confinement probably hasn't helped. Also, we are seeing a video where like you said, you didn't have a lunge whip to help engage. I find sometimes horses go more forward at the other end of that school, it's more open too.
What about just long lining him around the tracks of the yard? There's two nice uphill bits? If you need to stick to straight lines and controlled exercise?
 
Agree with others - looks uncomfortable behind and reluctant to track up.

Has a vet seen the horse or just the physiotherapist?
 
Wagtail said:
Just had another look at the videos and there seems to be something odd going on with his left tensor fascial muscle latae muscle (the triangular one just below the point of hip). It looks in spasm to me when compared with the other side and more pronounced and 'sinuey'. What do others think?
Click to expand...

I see what you mean, Made me go 'all funny' watching it, hope you find a diagnosis soon.
 
Wagtail said:
Just had another look at the videos and there seems to be something odd going on with his left tensor fascial muscle latae muscle (the triangular one just below the point of hip). It looks in spasm to me when compared with the other side and more pronounced and 'sinuey'. What do others think?
Click to expand...

Yep,something very odd there and I would say this is his worst leg. He is also tight along his back and poll seems immobile and braced........If only they could tell us where it hurts and where it hurts most.When I have a headache my minor backache becomes intolerable!
OP,if I were you I would get the vet and physio(and possibly farrier too for good measure) all together to discuss the best way forward. I would also avoid hill work and be very gentle with circle work until you have uncovered the root of the problem.
 
Zero00000 said:
I see what you mean, Made me go 'all funny' watching it, hope you find a diagnosis soon.
Click to expand...

what was it that made you go funny? the tensor fascial latae muscle or something else? I agree he's stiff but so awful as to make you cringe? sorry, not being critical, just looking for more definite pointers!
 
abitodd-agreed! when the vet and Physio come out next week for sedation Physio, I will first be getting them to watch him work and exchange comments. I want to make sure we have a two pronged approach that they both agree with and recommend!
 
zero00000- I'm in Surrey, an area Lucemoose knows well as far as I can establish!! will see what vet & Physio think next time they see him but if still no ideas will def consider second opinion.

Lucemoose-you obv know the yard!! he's in the trash paddock at the front. on his own cos he was larking around with the other boys when it rained-do you think it's too confined?

I'm not using steve brooks, it was the Physio who recommended a sedation session, rather than the vet. the vet I'm using does visits on a weds but apparently works v closely with the Physio. I think the vet wants to clear the back pain before further investigation. will try him down the other end, and perhaps just free schooling & not on the lunge? also my friend has agreed to lend me her equiami so I'll try that.

L&M-yes vet saw horse on weds and put him on Bute.

thanks again everyone for your comments, they're really helpful. As only ever a one or two horse owner I've been fortunate not to see so many lameness cases. does make it hard knowing what to do though!
 
Its hard because ( IMO ) if anything in the back starts hurting, then you start to get tightness and spasm, which isn't necessarily in the original area of soreness.
My tb - for example - had a massive spasm in his off hind, hamstrings and glutes, he was dropping his hip, stepping short. Very obviously lame on his r hind.... caused by a very sore near fore.
I'm thinking it might be worth getting him a massage/ acupuncture or even put a warm rug/ heat pad on his back to really try and loosen up his back?
I wouldn't tell you to go against your vet or physio, they have hands on experience with your horse, and I don't use lunging aids, just side reins. Your boy is doing a really good job of going on the forehand and still not working over his back in the draw reins at the moment though.
its frustrating for you, and I hope you get an answer for him soon.
Kx
 
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