lameness video what do you think is wrong??

soulfull

soulfull

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59Ivw12-4PQ

also in CR

Waiting for liverpool to ring with appointment

pls excuse my riding I am just trying to let him go his own way and not interfere at all

as you can see my poor boy is very lame. it is not on every stride


In fact if I make sure he is in an outline when I ask for trot he can trot sound for a good half a circle before doing this again

He is worse with a rider but still similar

he has had a few things which at the time we put down to ' playful greeness' BUT could be related

right shoulder lameness that was fixed with chiro visit
throwing head up and leaping over jumps '' '' ''
the odd silly throw of head, then carried on as normal

vet thinks its is possible kissing spines. I think he thinks because its me it will be bad (experience has taught him this)
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He is skipping through his left shoulder. This is usually caused by a sore back but could also be more localised in the shoulder.
 
Definately looks like in pain in left leg- it get worse as you change the rein.
Could be sore back, but often pain in the shoulder is based in the foot...
Is it worse on hard or soft ground?
Have you tried bute or metacam trial to see if improved?
Take it full work up has already been done by vet before referring on?
Need more info but this could be a multitude of things
 
Looks lame in BOTH fronts imo! Trailing quarters too, head lifting. I dont know if it is in lower leg or higher up in shoulder/back/neck but I really hope liv find out cause soon. Poor Micah. Get well soon.
 
angel7 said:
Definately looks like in pain in left leg- it get worse as you change the rein.
Could be sore back, but often pain in the shoulder is based in the foot...
Is it worse on hard or soft ground?
Have you tried bute or metacam trial to see if improved?
Take it full work up has already been done by vet before referring on?
Need more info but this could be a multitude of things
Click to expand...

not tried to ride him on bute. he was given bute while on box rest for a few days but that is all

yes nerve blocks up to knee no real improvement
 
Yes Talley ho, on watching again I think both fronts are affected. At the point of change of rein the movement is very odd.
Were both front legs nerve blocked? or just the one? Xrayed anywhere?
Is it as obvious without rider on board?
Does it get better or worse with rest?
Was it sudden onset or lots of little weird things?
 
Ouchie. he looks as though he could be bilaterally lame, and he looks uncomfortable through his back and stiff through his hind quarters too. I'm thinking possibly a back problem, but it could all be stemming from the shoulder injury.

I don't think he should be ridden at the moment, not even in walk.

Shoulder injuries can be tricky to diagnose and treat effectively - a horse on our yard had an accident bolting into a wheelbarrow, and damaged her shoulder. It took nearly 2 years for her to come sound again, and she spent months at Rossdales. She had that skippy gait too.

KS tends not to be easy to diagnose conclusively unless you have the horse xrayed. If the vet is thinking KS, you should have the xrays ASAP so you can rule it out, or go from there, but I think it looks more muscular.
 
This looks just like my mare before she was diagnosed with navicular in both fronts. your horse looks intermittently lame in both fores and my mare didn't respond to nerve blocks - it was only found by scintigraphy and subsequent x-rays. I hope you get it sorted - it's so concerning when the cause can't be found. Good luck.
 
Lame RF on both reins.

Given the character of the lameness (variable, with a shortened cranial phase) I would tend toward the upper limb but would suggest a methodical and step wise approach starting at the bottom up rather than guessing.
 
i've just watched again... i wouldn't even rule out foot pain. She does not like landing on her heels does she?
 
My boy used to move just like that before he was diagnosed with spavins. I first thought it must be in the shoulder as he skipped. Bone spavins can cause a bad back due to the way they move to compensate.
 
Personally I think the problem is high up and your vet may well be right with a provisional KS diagnosis. My mare used to exhibit exactly the same kind of movement. A hoppy sort of stride with a reluctance to go forward properly. An x-ray of the back will give you a definite answer.

your horse is not favouring any particular leg and is able to keep going albeit in a way he finds comfortable. How long has he been like this? My mare had 7 impinging vertabrae and had the op last year. She is a differnt horse now with a loose elastic stride.
 
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Just so there is no mistake

I AM NOT RIDING HIM AT ALL :p

angel7 said:
Yes Talley ho, on watching again I think both fronts are affected. At the point of change of rein the movement is very odd.
Were both front legs nerve blocked? or just the one? Xrayed anywhere?
Is it as obvious without rider on board?
Does it get better or worse with rest?
Was it sudden onset or lots of little weird things?
Click to expand...

.
only right fore was nerve blocked (no real improvement) not xrayed yet, awaiting app with liverpool

is not significantly different without rider
no different with rest
has had a few quirks but otherwise fairly sudden as in couple of weeks, he was slightly lame on right front, called vet, field rest, then no better, nerve blocks, thought it was bruised DDFT (not my vet) 3 wks box rest seemed ok for 2 days in walk, not happy so had vet out again which is when he started adding the hopping into equation
 
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TicTac said:
Personally I think the problem is high up and your vet may well be right with a provisional KS diagnosis. My mare used to exhibit exactly the same kind of movement. A hoppy sort of stride with a reluctance to go forward properly. An x-ray of the back will give you a definite answer.

your horse is not favouring any particular leg and is able to keep going albeit in a way he finds comfortable. How long has he been like this? My mare had 7 impinging vertabrae and had the op last year. She is a differnt horse now with a loose elastic stride.
Click to expand...

I have suspected it to be high up ALL along, whether it is or isn't its not good!! I am not hopeful :(

he has had a few quirks along the way that could be related but could just as equally be down to a young green horse and they were always VERY intermittnet
the actual lameness started about 5 wks ago. I knew from the onset it was not something that would go away and luckily called the vet immediately, much to the amusement of a few people who thought I was over reacting
anyway as i say it started as a mild right fore lameness, then field rest and box rest, eventually resulted in this

He has been turned out for 4 days now and vet said to check if there was any difference, answer NO still exactly the same:(
 
Micah has the most pronounced toe first landing I have ever seen. It is obvious in trot in a soft surface. Normally you would need slow motion reply on a concrete or tarmac surface to see such obvious toe first landing.

Now, IF, that's IF, this toe first landing is not being caused by problems elsewhere; IF it is part of the problem, then it is highly indicative of pain in the back half of the foot which used to be diagnosed as navicular syndrome and is now more often recognised following MRI scanning as either collateral ligament damage or deep digital flexor tendon damage.

It is a puzzle that nerve blocking to the foot did not help, because it probably should have done if it's a foot problem. The question for me is would a pain in the shoulder or the back cause your horse to so obviously avoid putting weight onto his heels? One for your vet maybe.
 
cptrayes said:
Micah has the most pronounced toe first landing I have ever seen. It is obvious in trot in a soft surface. Normally you would need slow motion reply on a concrete or tarmac surface to see such obvious toe first landing.

Now, IF, that's IF, this toe first landing is not being caused by problems elsewhere; IF it is part of the problem, then it is highly indicative of pain in the back half of the foot which used to be diagnosed as navicular syndrome and is now more often recognised following MRI scanning as either collateral ligament damage or deep digital flexor tendon damage.

It is a puzzle that nerve blocking to the foot did not help, because it probably should have done if it's a foot problem. The question for me is would a pain in the shoulder or the back cause your horse to so obviously avoid putting weight onto his heels? One for your vet maybe.
Click to expand...

interesting, do you remember I asked about his foot balance? I was worried before he went lame that it wasn't as it should be and he was landing toe first, my farrier said it was fine.
In fact despite the fact I thought it looked like higher up, I did ask vet about navicular the first time he came.
 
soulfull said:
I have suspected it to be high up ALL along, whether it is or isn't its not good!! I am not hopeful :(

he has had a few quirks along the way that could be related but could just as equally be down to a young green horse and they were always VERY intermittnet
the actual lameness started about 5 wks ago. I knew from the onset it was not something that would go away and luckily called the vet immediately, much to the amusement of a few people who thought I was over reacting
anyway as i say it started as a mild right fore lameness, then field rest and box rest, eventually resulted in this

He has been turned out for 4 days now and vet said to check if there was any difference, answer NO still exactly the same:(
Click to expand...


All sounds very familiar to me. When I had the vet out to see my horse initially. the young rookie vet said my horse was lame behind and to box rest her for a week. I said no and that I thought the problem was higher up and I wanted to book her into the clinic. I then sent the clinic an email of all her symptoms and mannerisms and said that I was convinced she had a problem in her back and would they please x-ray etc. ( she had had numerous physio's etc) Sure enough that was her problem.

You know your horse but if you have a gut feeling then go with it. Keep us posted.
 
soulfull said:
seems more right shoulder.
Click to expand...

He may well be sore in the right too but the most marked lameness is shown when you change from the right to the left rein and turn sharply left which puts more strain on the left fore. He skips through and avoids putting weight on the left. However, I think he is sore on both but more so on the left.
 
Wagtail said:
He may well be sore in the right too but the most marked lameness is shown when you change from the right to the left rein and turn sharply left which puts more strain on the left fore. He skips through and avoids putting weight on the left. However, I think he is sore on both but more so on the left.
Click to expand...

interesting thanks

as I say it is also MUCH better if he is made to work on the bit, rein back is lovely
 
Very worrying for you, and I hope you get a diagnosis asap, so that you can make a plan for him. BUT - is that your friend or your instructor? If the latter, then I would be a bit worried about them speaking on their phone during what must have been a stressful time for you when you, would have wanted their undivided attention!
 
I was worried before he went lame that it wasn't as it should be and he was landing toe first, my farrier said it was fine.
Click to expand...

Please learn from my mistake. I trusted a professional even when my gut said that it was wrong. I would get a second opinion about his hooves.

It could be that you have pain both low down and high up. One could be causing the other. (I get awful pain between my shoulder blades, but it was actually a lumbar vertabre that I broke.)

I agree that it's both front legs.

What about getting a thermal scan? I would also x-ray his spine, just so you know if it's KS or not.
 
optimistic pessimist said:
Very worrying for you, and I hope you get a diagnosis asap, so that you can make a plan for him. BUT - is that your friend or your instructor? If the latter, then I would be a bit worried about them speaking on their phone during what must have been a stressful time for you when you, would have wanted their undivided attention!
Click to expand...

It was a friend getting in the way lol
Faracat said:
Please learn from my mistake. I trusted a professional even when my gut said that it was wrong. I would get a second opinion about his hooves.

It could be that you have pain both low down and high up. One could be causing the other. (I get awful pain between my shoulder blades, but it was actually a lumbar vertabre that I broke.)

I agree that it's both front legs.

What about getting a thermal scan? I would also x-ray his spine, just so you know if it's KS or not.
Click to expand...

he is going to liverpool soon as they ring me

the problem is the farrier I have is the best I can find in the area, i really have gone and looked at other horses feet too I looked on line for a trimmer near me and can't get a good one to come to stafford
 
aww poor micah, it's horrid to see them uncomfortable :(, Frank has been to the vets for lameness check today. I wouldn't like to say what was causing it though, hopefully liverpool will be in contact asap.
 
I may be completely on the wrong track here, but just as something plucked out of the air.... what about wobbles? I have no personal experience at all with this, it was just something I read once as a friends youngster had suspected wobbles. I read that not all horses were necessarily born/young/grown too fast/over fed causing wobbles, it could also develop through a physical trauma resulting in injury in older horses too. Or something a long those lines...? Just a thought.

Get well soon Micah - I hope you have a diagnosis soon, and you are able to work towards a speedy, and full recovery for your little man. xx
 
soulfull said:
interesting thanks

as I say it is also MUCH better if he is made to work on the bit, rein back is lovely
Click to expand...

Oooh, how interesting!

Laminitic horses with pain in the toe will not rein back because it hurts to put their toe down first. Micah is happy to rein back because it weights his feet away from his heels????

Does anyone know if kissing spines would allow a horse to rein back easily?

I have a theory now having read the other posters and this one - he has ddft or collateral ligament damage in his feet, but compensating for them over the preceding months before he became obviously lame has put out muscles in his back. (That's not abnormal in "navicular" horses.) The reason that he is not blocking sound on a nerve block is that the secondary muscle pain is still there.

???? Just a theory, worth considering maybe.
 
cptrayes said:
Oooh, how interesting!

Laminitic horses with pain in the toe will not rein back because it hurts to put their toe down first. Micah is happy to rein back because it weights his feet away from his heels????

Does anyone know if kissing spines would allow a horse to rein back easily?

I have a theory now having read the other posters and this one - he has ddft or collateral ligament damage in his feet, but compensating for them over the preceding months before he became obviously lame has put out muscles in his back. (That's not abnormal in "navicular" horses.) The reason that he is not blocking sound on a nerve block is that the secondary muscle pain is still there.

???? Just a theory, worth considering maybe.
Click to expand...


definitely he is sounder going forward 'on the bit' too ??
 
i wouldnt like to say what i think.... i have an idea - saw a horse with similar symptoms....and tons of tests done and wasnt a nice oucome

so on this occasion i will keep schtum.

he's going the best place tho :)

do you know who your treating vet is at leahurst?
 
noodle_ said:
i wouldnt like to say what i think.... i have an idea - saw a horse with similar symptoms....and tons of tests done and wasnt a nice oucome

so on this occasion i will keep schtum.

he's going the best place tho :)

do you know who your treating vet is at leahurst?
Click to expand...

referral is for Peter Clegg but who we will see is anyones guess

you can't not tell now!! doesn't mean it will be that

Also too be honest I don't have a good feeling about it anyway, have had lame horses before and never even considered I would lose them This time I have already mentioned to my family that I might lose him :(
 
I suspect the lameness is originating from the front and that when he is ridden "on the bit" he has is able to transfer a lot of weight to his hocks and is genuinely more comfortable.


ps Peter Clegg is the one who "oversees" the Project Dexter barefoot rehab research at Rockley Farm.
 
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