Lami and seedy toe - way forward?

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missyme10

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Looking for some knowledgeable advice on the way forward with a pony who is lamanitic and has seedy toe as a result of it. Sorry, be a bit of a long one, but I'm getting such conflicting advise my heads spinning!

Have a 13.1hh 12 year old mare, I bought her a year a go and I knew she had bad feet but took the chance as she's a fantastic pony and she really clicked with my daughter.

Now she's currently sound and rideable, she's had a small bout of Lami Last July, it was caught straight away, was on box rest with bute until no longer foot sore and remained on box rest for weeks after, she was then allowed back out for daily turnout in a bare paddock and then brought back into work slowly.
We've kept her sound since.

She was shod on all 4 when buying her and remained shod throughout all of this until 2 months ago when my farrier suggested trying her barefoot as her feet had improved.
We did this and she's been fine, can be a little footy on hard stoney surfaces.

She's currently stabled with daily turnout (obviously managing grass) and gets a net of hay at night, gets 1 scoop of healthy hooves at tea time with a magnesium supplement for her hooves, and her weight is fine, she's not overweight and its carefully managed.

What is now happening is her heels are wearing more than I'd like, you can see she goes more heel down on hard surfaces so I know why - this is going to lead to problems.

I could re shod, but I'm damened if I do, damned if I dont.
Shod for Lami, no good for seedy toe, if I can't get at the breaks in the white line where its opened up, I stand no chance of getting rid of it.
If I dont shod, her heels will wear away !

Could boots work?

Also riding, if she's going a little bit heel down first on hard surfaces is it wise to ride her? This suggest some pedal bone rotation.
Again not riding can lead to its own problems, I've always been advised that if sound and in no way lame, ridin is good for her and she'd be worse off not ridden!

X -rays? Been previously advised by vets and farrier that not necessary, she's sound and tracks up well suggesting damage not to bad and if her pedal bones sunk or rotated she'd not go like that.

I am really struggling on what to do for the best here, my main concern is pony's soundness, that she's not suffering in anyway, but I would also like to get this pony's feet right in the long term, so I have to work towards not just managing her condition but also improving it, and ultimately ridding her of her foot problems all together.

Thanks for reading :)
 
Hi, no experience of lami, but I have successfully managed seedy toe in a shod horse. It involved a lot of peroxide and Stockholm Tar (peroxide - dry - seal with tar) and I worked with my farrier to sort it out. Have you consulted your farrier? They can normally offer sound advice.
 
Magnetic Sparrow said:
Hi, no experience of lami, but I have successfully managed seedy toe in a shod horse. It involved a lot of peroxide and Stockholm Tar (peroxide - dry - seal with tar) and I worked with my farrier to sort it out. Have you consulted your farrier? They can normally offer sound advice.
Click to expand...

My farrier has said its not that bad, dont worry about it but said she'd prob be with it for life................I dont agree, from all the research I've done, you can get rid of seedy toe!!
Another farrier is saying possible pedal bone rotation has happened at some point, that its all treatable, possibly via egg bar shoes, and said I cure one problem with shoes but could end up with abcesses because of seedy toe, that its lot harder to tackle shod.

So conflicting advise from farriers !!
 
oh mare had seedy toe for a while while shod (ours both now have shoes off), it took ages to go but we treated it with daily drops of this stuff http://www.farriersupplies.co.uk/product.php?id_product=79 from our farrier. No sign of it a few months later. Fortunatly she wasn't lame in it, it just took a while to get the infection out to allow the hoof to repair itself.

Re the way she places her feet - heel first is a good thing, nothing to be worrying about at all! Her feet will wear alot at first as she isn't used to having wear on her feet, given a steady build up of work over a few months (obv as well as good nutrition!) her feet will harden up and wear alot less.

As well as a load of people on here (off the top of my head - lucypriory, burcea and cpatreys are super helpful and very knowledgable) I have found this forum very helpful for me to read up and ask silly questions without anyone minding http://uknhcp.myfastforum.org/forum2.php

Take your lead from your mare - if she is comfortable and sound in work then all is well. She will let you know if there is a prob by becoming footy.
 
My mare had laminitis last March, it was caught early and she was on box rest for 5months. In that time she had Imprints on, then heart bars and is now wearing her 3rd set of normal shoes. In November after the heart bars she got seedy toe, my farrier used a small tool to sort of open it up. He gave me some 'antibac' which was put on every other day and now her seedy toe has gone.
 
ThePony said:
oh mare had seedy toe for a while while shod (ours both now have shoes off), it took ages to go but we treated it with daily drops of this stuff http://www.farriersupplies.co.uk/product.php?id_product=79 from our farrier. No sign of it a few months later. Fortunatly she wasn't lame in it, it just took a while to get the infection out to allow the hoof to repair itself.

Re the way she places her feet - heel first is a good thing, nothing to be worrying about at all! Her feet will wear alot at first as she isn't used to having wear on her feet, given a steady build up of work over a few months (obv as well as good nutrition!) her feet will harden up and wear alot less.

As well as a load of people on here (off the top of my head - lucypriory, burcea and cpatreys are super helpful and very knowledgable) I have found this forum very helpful for me to read up and ask silly questions without anyone minding http://uknhcp.myfastforum.org/forum2.php

Take your lead from your mare - if she is comfortable and sound in work then all is well. She will let you know if there is a prob by becoming footy.
Click to expand...

Thanks :)
I have recently bought a similar product from Keratex.
I plan on tackling the seedy toe by giving her feet a good scrub with a hoof disinfectant, picking out any loose debris in the gaps, putting drops of the same stuff you have used in the gaps, letting dry and then using hoof putty to fill the gaps to prevent further dirt and debris entering, it hardens up so works well and is antibacterial in itself. I am hoping the seedy toe will eventually trim out this way.

Yes I agree she will tell me if she's hurting, she's a lively wee thing with a spring in her step so its rather obvious when she's not sound.
I think its the heals wearing thats worrying me, and her being a bit footy on hard surfaces.
I think Cavallo horse boots could tackle both of these problems ??
Whether they suit her and they stay on is another matter.

What I dont want to do is use them so the problem is disguised if you know what I mean. Being a little footy on stoney hard surfaces is one thing, but some horses clearly have problems and shodding or boots hide the problem and it therefore doesn't get dealt with - put off for another day sort of thing !
 
I personally wouldn't use hoof putty with an infection. Seedy toe is often anerobic bacteria, by giving it a lovely blocked space you are helping it stay. Picking out and cleaning the seedy toe as well as using an antibac is the best plan - free flowing air is your friend!

If you find that she finds some surfaces challenging then it is def worth considering hoof boots (they will still allow her foot to develop so don't feel like you are failing if you choose to use them). The boot you choose will be pretty much totally governed by what shape brand of boots her feet suit. What these guys don't know about hoof boots isn't worth knowing! http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/D/Hoof_Boots-(Hoof_Boots).aspx
Each horse needs something different though, so try not to worry too much - I know it is easier said than done!! My mare was happily stomping over all surfaces very quickly, although it has taken longer for her hooves to harden up and not wear alarmingly after short hacks - no boots for us! OH mare is still a little footy over some surfaces, but her hooves have never worn half as fast - she has boots that she wears on front for hacks, but not in the school.
 
ThePony said:
I personally wouldn't use hoof putty with an infection. Seedy toe is often anerobic bacteria, by giving it a lovely blocked space you are helping it stay. Picking out and cleaning the seedy toe as well as using an antibac is the best plan - free flowing air is your friend!

If you find that she finds some surfaces challenging then it is def worth considering hoof boots (they will still allow her foot to develop so don't feel like you are failing if you choose to use them). The boot you choose will be pretty much totally governed by what shape brand of boots her feet suit. What these guys don't know about hoof boots isn't worth knowing! http://www.thesaddleryshop.co.uk/D/Hoof_Boots-(Hoof_Boots).aspx
Each horse needs something different though, so try not to worry too much - I know it is easier said than done!! My mare was happily stomping over all surfaces very quickly, although it has taken longer for her hooves to harden up and not wear alarmingly after short hacks - no boots for us! OH mare is still a little footy over some surfaces, but her hooves have never worn half as fast - she has boots that she wears on front for hacks, but not in the school.
Click to expand...

I see what you mean about hoof putty, what if the holes left are quite big? Thinking along the lines of stones getting in and splitting an already weakened outer hoof wall ??
I suppose again boots would help with this, could clean the seedy toe out and just let her wear boots, but then how many hours a day is it safe to let them wear boots ?
The tracks around the yard have loads of little stones and bigger ones, so even turning out could be a risk ?

Yeah I would be hoping for boots only on the fronts for hacking, I think her back feet are much better and certainly no lameness for the past year in them x
 
I really wouldn't worry about stuff getting in the holes. As long as she sees the farrier so that her walls aren't allowed to get over long, and he puts a decent roll on then the chance of any stones etc jamming and weakening the wall is pretty slight. I would honestly just go about turn out, riding etc keeping her comfort as your guide. That along with cleaning out of the seedy toe and antibac will get all sorted in no time. After spending months worrying about every tiny little thing when my mares shoes came off, I am at last now starting to chill out and realising that her feet are an awful lot tougher and better at sorting themselves out than I ever could have imagined!!
 
I have got 2 lamanitics.
It would be most advisable to have x rays taken. That way you know if there has been any rotation or sinking of the pedal bone and the current state of affairs.
Based on the position of the pedal bone and with the x rays your vet and farrier in direct consultation with each can then decide how your horse should be shod.
The fact your horse is sound does not meen that there has been no rotation of the pedal bone.
I would also suggest that when feeding hay to your horse that you always soak it for one hour in fresh water if you are not doing this already.
I would also suggest feeding your horse with one scoop of formula4feet daily as this will help your horse. Formula4feet was developed by Robert Eustace (a vet) of the Laminitis Trust.
Hope this helps.
 
Seedy toe isn't that difficult to deal with if the basics are got right.

Often follows on from a stretched white line (laminitis/LGL) as this gives a lovely site for opportunistic bacteria to get a toe hold (apologies for the pun).

Four fold approach
Regular wear stimulates the foot to put down more and better quality growth, this helps the horse outgrow the infection.

Hygiene - a daily scrub with salt water until the solar view sparkles clean and shiny (no need for expensive or other chemicals) - also brilliant for frog health.

Feed - you seem to have this sorted, but for completeness, it is obviously a cornerstone of growing a healthy disease free hoof. I prefer not to use LT recommended products but if it works for you great!

Trim - some horses 'open' up seedy toe into a large crack. This can be avoided/minimised if the toe is properly rolled, regularly.

Heels
Not sure what you mean by the heels wearing too much? Can you elaborate or post photos?

Holes in feet
We have been educated to overly worry about holes in hooves. I think I've posted these before, but still great examples of letting nature work.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/broken-quarters-abscess-holes.html
http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/successful-barefoot-putting-horse-first.html
 
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