Lami pony - am I feeding too much/enough???

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Rosehip

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Bit of a long one Im afraid!

My little mare presented with laminitis on Friday night - having been fine with cold feet and no pulses in the morning. (I check both girls morning and night!)
She is now on box rest - well, baracaded into the shelter rest - is having 24hr soaked hay and danilon. She is also padded in front. Her pulses were raging on Friday and she had the typical stance on a laminitic, she now looks much more 'normal' on her feet and the pulses are barely there.

Im just worried Im not doing what is absolutely right for her. In the old days what I am doing was the right way, but now with the all the info regarding barefoot there are so many differing oppinions!

www.barefoothorse.com recommends that horses are padded well and made to move, with gentle, consistant exercise from turnout (obvs in a bare paddock) and have access to unlimited well soaked hay. This goes against the boxrest advice always given for laminitis cases, but does make sense to me in that how can something heal when it is not in some way exercised.....

What are the opinions of you guys?

To my origional question, Im worried that Im not feeding her enough to keep the fibre going through her - she is only doing 6/7 poo's in 24hrs - but that she is having too much when she should be on a lami diet!

She weight taped at 285kg on Friday, last time I taped her coming out of winter she was 290kg, so she has lost a little.

In a 24hr period she is having:

200g Fast Fibre
300g HiFi Lite
Split into 2 feeds

8 - 10 lbs old hay, split into 3 nets and soaked for 24hrs

To me she looks a little tucked up, but Im guessing part of that is discomfort and also the way she is standing.

Any advice?

Pic of her this morning -

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Oh, forgot, she is 12.2/13hh!!
 
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When my pony got lami a few years ago we were advised by the vet to boxrest for 2 weeks on a deep bed. We were told to soak hay and to give no more than 5kg (11 pounds) per day. She had a bit of happy hoof twice a day to give her the meds in. She is a 13.2hh native. After the two weeks she was completley fine and back on normal turnout.
 
While the pony is uncomfortable (ie lame without medication) they should be inside on deep bed, pref of shavings right up to the door.

Once they have been sound without medication (eg bute) for a week or two, they are better off outside as long as it is a bare as bare paddock, as the hoof needs the action of them walking around to aid blood supply and recovery.

So both answers are right but depend at what stage the pony is.

I was told to feed an overweight horse 2-2.25% of current bodyweight to allow steady but not risky weightloss, then if needed later reducing to 2-2.35% of target bodyweight.

For my girl this meant 8-8.5kg of feed a day total incl all hay and any lo cal feeds and any grass. Grass on a bare paddock only 25% is counted due to the water content. If really bare and only out a couple of hours then maybe count as 1-2kg, but bare does mean really bare ground.

Ideally any feed should have an energy value of less than 8, which really means soaked hay, oat straw chaff and vit/min supp plus some magnesium to help the hooves. Go steady on the lami-friendly feeds as they can be a bit molassey/slightly higher in energy, but they are useful temptingness to put the vit/min supp in and give a treat sized handful.

hope this helps.
 
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Thanks Lachlanandmarcus :)
I dont like the "Laminitis Trust Approved" feeds as they are still high in sugars, so I love Fast Fibre, and the Hifi Lite is (I think??) the lowest calorie chaff I can get isnt it?

The box Seren is in is 12x14 so she has quite a bit of room to shuffle about in through her shavings :) and the paddock Im planning to make her outside the shelter is 90% bare - should I kill off the remaining bits of grass, or just let my big girl graze it off before Seren goes onto it in a couple of weeks?

If Im right, a kilo is 2.2lbs, so 285kg = 627lbs.... 2.25% of that is 14lbs...... is that right? As if it is, Im underfeeding Seri by 3lbs a day? My maths is horrific though!!xx
 
Hi
Badminton fibre nuts are great as they are large and fab in one of those ball things( keep her occupied ) min 12 HR hay disk and then rinse , that way she can have more fibre without the probs, really good quality magnesium oxide added to feed and deep bed
only turnout after the feet have truly settled ( farrier had reined and looked for the signs of bruising and or blood in White line)
This is because the lamini need tome to recover ( think of them like the springs holding the trampoline ) when they are damaged the dint support the pedal bone and thus is when dropping and rotation occur hence the deep bed to support the foot and it's structures within.
Once the lamini are repaired then exercise is important
Hope that helps
 
Sorry to hear about your little girl.

I was always told to feed 1 - 2 % of bodyweight in forrage a day so if we were going to play it safe and go for 1.5% she should be getting 9.4lb a day. I would probably err on the side of caution, given that she IS overweight give her slightly less and iff possible spread out more frequently throughout the day. Could someone put a lunchtime net in perhaps? Also double netting will slow her down a bit :)

I can't stress enough that she IS overweight and you really need to be tough and make sure she loses a significant amount of weight. I would use your other mare to eat down a patch of ground as bare as possible before turning her out.

You want to make sure she is completely sound on all surfaces without the danilon before turning her out again.
 
Cheers ears :) Im soaking her hay for 28/24 hours, and change the water half way through. She is already on magnesium and is on laminaze, although Ill be changing to Laminitis Prone when she has finished that.
Cheers again xx

Sorry - CBFan, we cross posted! Is she really THAT overweight? She is a broodmare, so has a 'broodie-belly' and I can feel her ribs...... Yes she has a huge crest, I completely accept that, but please, she isnt massively overweight!

She has 2 feeds AMand PM, and 3 nets, AM/midday and PM, the amounts as above, so she is having about 11lb total per day... Ill reduce the hay down so that she is on 9lbs, just worried about ulcers!
 
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Have you spoken to the laminitic trust for advice???

My mare has been box rest 10 months started as laminitis, then followed with the issues that go with it.

She is 16hh I was told to feed her 3lbs hay 4 times a day or 4lbs 4 times a day, rinsed 12hrs then soaked.

1/2 scoop speedy beet rinsed 1/2 scoop fibergy and 1/2 scoop alfa a lite + supplements.


In my horses situation we cant change anything while we are on the rd to recovery. Since your horse is only a mild case, I think you need to speak to the laminitic trust. You will hear many conflicting advice from many cases on here. Whats right for one horse is not ness right for another.

if he is a good doer then through the summer I would say a small feed just to have any supplements.

regarding shoeing depends on:

damage from the laminitis
your vets advice?
your farriers advice
if your horse is used to shoes , if he is I would continue
If barefoot depends on type of feet
shape of foot

and more.



Seriously I would ask your vet .:)
 
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Hi Lathiathan, my vet is thinking that they would like to go the heartbar and pads route, which isnt happening, I know people that have had some real problems with that option! My vets are happy with the routine I have Seren on and the amount of food she is having, Im just worried that she will ulcer on the small amount she is on. I have had lami horses and ponies for many years, but am still a worry wort when it comes to restricing them etc! Hope your mare is improving x
 
Rosehip said:
Sorry - CBFan, we cross posted! Is she really THAT overweight? She is a broodmare, so has a 'broodie-belly' and I can feel her ribs...... Yes she has a huge crest, I completely accept that, but please, she isnt massively overweight!
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I didn't say massively but I did say she is carrying a significant amount of extra weight. I would prefer to see a hint of a rib or two rather than just feeling them. I don't just look at the belly or the crest, I look at the whole horse - her back is well covered and she has fatty deposits over her ribcage towards her flanks which I would prefer not to see. At the end of the day she's your horse and you can do as you wish :) Overweight or not, this has been a bad year for lami - having caught my 17.1 just tetering on the verge I know only too well.
 
Agree with CBFan - she is overweight and needs to lose weight. When my boy got lami (through stress injury) the vet wanted him to lose weight even though it wasn't weight/feed-induced. He was on only four sections of hay in a 24 hour period, no hard feed and box-rest. I think that should be your first priority - I would cut all hard-feed out unless she needs handful of something like fast fibre for supplements, then cut her hay down to a small soaked haynet three times a day until she has lost enough for her ribs to be visible. Only then would I be comfortable with her going back in the field (in collaboration with the vets orders). I'm afraid with lammis you have to be cruel to be kind - my own is able to graze normally but only gets a handful of chaff for supplements and a small haynet overnight in order to keep him on the slim side.
 
Ulcers from shortish period of little food won't kill her. The laminitis could.

Feed her 1 - 1.5% correct bodyweight in hay and if you're feeling really mean feeding that little mix some straw in with it as well just to keep things moving through her.
 
Sorry but I don't agree, you should feed her 2% of her body weight, she is not overweight, keeping her stress free is more important than starving her. And if she is hungry she will get stressed.

My old pony, on the advice of the Lamintis Trust said 1 - 1.5% and he wrecked the stable as he was so hungy and stressed. It too 8 weeks for him to recover :( If you mix it with some straw and its soaked, I don't see what the problem is

Why not invest in a trickle net to slow her eating down?
 
AngieandBen said:
Sorry but I don't agree, you should feed her 2% of her body weight, she is not overweight, keeping her stress free is more important than starving her. And if she is hungry she will get stressed.

My old pony, on the advice of the Lamintis Trust said 1 - 1.5% and he wrecked the stable as he was so hungy and stressed. It too 8 weeks for him to recover :( If you mix it with some straw and its soaked, I don't see what the problem is

Why not invest in a trickle net to slow her eating down?
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She is overweight - there's no two ways about it. OP yes stress is unpleasant but it will not kill them, laminitis will.
 
We will have to agree to disagree, stress in a laminitic is very detramental to their wellbeing and will prolong recovery, and most ponies/horses that get laminitis don't die, so stop being so dramatic!
 
AngieandBen said:
We will have to agree to disagree, stress in a laminitic is very detramental to their wellbeing and will prolong recovery, and most ponies/horses that get laminitis don't die, so stop being so dramatic!
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I agree - but if a person cannot accept that their horse is overweight (this is not aimed at the OP) then sometimes one must be dramatic. At the end of the day if people recognised their horses were overweight and took action to reduce the weight then there would be many less laminitic horses out there.
 
Rosehip said:
Hi Lathiathan, my vet is thinking that they would like to go the heartbar and pads route, which isnt happening, I know people that have had some real problems with that option! My vets are happy with the routine I have Seren on and the amount of food she is having, Im just worried that she will ulcer on the small amount she is on. I have had lami horses and ponies for many years, but am still a worry wort when it comes to restricing them etc! Hope your mare is improving x
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My mare had heart bar shoes on for a while, but then she went really sore and we found she had sunk so switched to pads. These in turn stopped her sinking until she got an abscess where all the healing was undone :(

She was on glue on shoes till this abscess started so now as we are stabilized she is barefoot so we can change her poultice daily.

Must confess I prefer her with the glue on shoes to barefoot . She is more comfortable with them on.:)
 
Get her on Blue chip Lami-light. My fat boy is on it and I have friends who give it to their horses and all seems well touch wood.

My riding instructor said she knew some one who had a pony and got lami attack every year, she put it on blue chip lami light and its been fine ever since.

Laminitis is not just linked to your fat over weight ponies any more and there's more to it than just sugars in the grass. Recent studies have shown it is linked to gut health too and suggests we should feed pro-biotics to aid good bacteria in the gut and digestion. Lami light has all of those things. Try it, hope your ponio is better soon.xx
 
Hi Lottie, cheers for that :) I had them both on Lami Lite when Seren was in foal last year as stud balancers were too much for her but she needed all the nutrients. I have them both on Equivite Origional though, and my vet was happy that she was getting all she needed from that....worth a try though, anything to get my girly better!

I have re-padded her feet tonight and she is definately more comfortable, standing better to have them done, and is walking round her box much easier. She still has pulses, but they arent raging, and her feet are cool.

Re the percentage of roughage debate, a 1.5% diet is 9.4lbs of feed per day (hay and bucket) so Im only 0.6lb over at 10lb/day, and Seren seems happy at that, she has also dropped a little weight already, and her ribs are easily felt, so Im happy to continue with that :)

Thanks everyone for your help and advice x
 
Sorry to hear about your girl. Fast fibre is great also l'mix is really good and HI-FI good doer is lowest MJDE chaff on the market. My boy took lami and wasnt too fat but had crest turned out he had EMS might be worth testing for? Mag ox is good to get rid of crest. I think you are feeding plenty but if yuor worried Id feed straw my boys both eat barley and oat straw and have had no probs with it I introduced it gradullay and always make sure they have plenty water. Good luck
 
Thanks weeanne. Ill look into the hifi good doer :) I think it is possible she is EMS, I had my big girl tested last year and she was clear/boarderline so it may be time to test them both. She is 7 and had a foal though, does that have any impact on it? Im guessing not! x
 
Generally its older horses that get it but I have heard of younger ones being affected. My boy is 18 and was diagnosed 2 years ago and was on metformin for 3 months, he (fingers crossed) hasnt even had a touch of lami since however I am very strict with him. Not sure whether having a foal makes a differance or not. Id get blood test dont to rule it out. If she does have it PM me and I can give you a few tips.
 
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