Laminitis - 5 days on and still lame?

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flyingfeet

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So tottering last tues following steroid injection immediately put on box rest and bute. Only being fed 2 slices of a small bales of hay per day (big 16hh horse).

Last bute was thursday, was looking good yesterday, however now tottering today.

As mentioned on the other thread, its a long term steroid, so cannot get this out of his system.

I am thinking still being lame 5 days on is a very bad sign?
 
Please don't be in a hurry, laminitis takes weeks, sometimes months to get better! Very usuall for them to be pottery for as least two/three weeks. 2 slices of hay for a horse that size!! . He needs 1.5 - 2% of his bodyweight or you will have gut problems.

Once sound on hard ground, they need to be kept in for a further 30 days providing he's not having any painkillers.
Sorry to sound harsh, but been there several times!
 
I agree with jakesmydog, don't try to rush anything. When did your vet last see the horse? He/she should be able to give you an idea of what is going on, the laminitic I am helping look after has had it for 11 days now and is still having trouble turning and is slightly lame on a straight line (very slightly). She was X-rayed on Friday and was fine, she's just taking her time recovering from what was a very bad bout of lami.
I also agree that you need to feed more hay, "my" laminitic is getting pretty much ad-lib hay (soaked 24 hours). Hyperlipaemia and stress lami are not on my agenda!!
 
Echo the others...it is a long process for them to get right...they have sore feet and half a tonne or more stood on them. You are better being over the top about his recovery in order to ensure he is 100% right before going back to a normal routine. And please feed him more hay...there is n reason why he cannot have ad lib hay to keep his gut moving, just soak it if you are worried. Starving a laminitic horse is the worse thing in the world.
 
I asked the vet how much to feed him and he told me (and phyiscally showed me) one slice morning and night.

He is eating straw too, as obviously very hungry, so hopefully that is keeping the gut churning over.

I would like to give him more hay to keep him occupied, but I am worried about going against the vet advice.

I think I will give him a bute this evening as he is very pottery again.
 
I assume he is eating the right type of straw? I can't remember which type is edible (well they both are, but one of the other is "safer" - barley or oat) but the "inedible" type apparently risks them getting colic. I think that may be what set my mare off getting colicky last week, she ate her bed! TBH I am susprised at a vet encouraging someone to give the horse as little hay as that, in this day and age with all the research around lami suggesting ad-lib 24 hour soaked hay is better.
If you are this worried TBH I would be calling my vet and voicing my concerns.
 
Wheat straw. Barley is harsh and oat has too high a calorie level.
Try giving some Aloe Vera juice, a normal human version and give double the stated adult dose for five days, then cut down to the adult dose daily. You should see an improvement in three days.
 
you can feed as much hay as you like providing you soak all the goodness out of it (no less than 24 hours soaking), as once soaked all you are doing is giving fibre which is essential for his gut to be kept in a healthy condition.
with laminitic horses as pottamus says is one of the worse mistakes you can make (although unfortunatley it used to be common place) is to stave the animal, as they become distressed (especially if they can hear others being fed!), horse are creatures of routine, he wont understand you are not feeding him for a reason!
you can also feed bran mash, just so he has something to eat when everyone else is fed, but please remember to suppliment as he will be getting none of the usual vits and minerals he would otherwise get in his feed every day.
 
Right have left him on one slice tonight (in an evil deluxe hay bag so very hard to get out!)

I have vet coming again tomorrow and will quiz on what to feed, I have been shaving carrots and mixing with brewers yeast as I am keen he still gets this to ward the midges off (has sweet itch).

I also have kasolin blood salts with all essential vits and minerals, but can only mix so much powder in with carrot peelings.

I will ask about happy hoof or equivalent, and have hay soaking as we speak.
 
Anything as un-mollassed as possible should be fine to feed. "My" laminitic is getting HiFi to mix her bute into, vet was happy with that. I am doing my best to persuade owner to get her some sort of GP supplement too. Don't go mad with the carrots, Kit is allowed one carrot and one apple per day as per vet's orders.
 
My horse is recovering from a mild lami attack, and throughout he has been having virtually ad lib soaked hay (2 - 3 slices in the day, and the same at night), plus two big scoops of Happy Hoof, with his brewers yeast, glucosamine, bute, ACP, a little salt and magnesium oxide. He is recovering very well, is completely sound without bute; and is now out 2 hours a day on a bare patch on the farrier's advice.

I do really think that two slices of hay and some carrot a day is just far too little, and your boy will become ill from lack of fibre. He will be so hungry as well as being in pain, poor lad.
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I agree with all the others who have posted, all A1 advice, however we tend to think the Vet knows best
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..... is there any chance that you can see another Vet from the practice .... sometimes helps having 'another' opinion, if you see what I mean
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If your worried about feeding ad lib hay, try alfalfa. It has even less sugars and fructans in it than hay and doesn't need to be soaked.

x
 
Ditto the advice re increasing hay quantity.

Once a horse has showed signs of laminitis, the changes have already begun. Only X-rays will reveal the extent of the changes and they can stop or worsen rapidly, depending on the severity/removal (or otherwise) of the cause. They don't, however reverse.

The laminae which have separated and allowed the pedal bone to become 'loose in its moorings' need to be replaced by normal laminae and this happens as the hoof grows down from the coronary band. Gradually, the new, tight laminae push the separated section down the hoof and it can take many months to achieve a hoof stable (and comfortable) enough to allow normal weight-bearing. Until the pedal bone is held firm again, he's going to be sore and to try and move him about unnecessarily will add to the damage occurring within the foot - especially if he is on anti-inflammatories and they are dulling the pain.

It's going to be at least a couple of months before you can move him safely, I would hazard.

I hope he's on the way to recovery soon.
 
hmmmm - you may be right - I've just worked out that would mean my boy would need nearly 88lbs of hay a day
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- no wonder hes so fat
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I just looked it up properly - its 2 to 2.5% - I remember giving a 220 kg pony 5 kilos of hay a day, which works out to 2.2%
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Must remember not to offer advice
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Well had a long chat with the vet and still banned from feeding any more than one slab morning and night.

The reasoning being that he needs to drop weight asap to give his feet the best chance of getting back to normal.

He is munching wheat straw too so gut still moving.
 
As long as he's getting the right amount of fibre (through the straw as well as the hay) he should be fine. HOWEVER no horse should drop weight "asap". Slimming should ALWAYS be gradual.
 
He wont drop weight "asap" by starving him, I'm horrified at your vet, I would speak to one of the feed companies. Try and spread his hay out into several feeds if possible. An average slice of hay weighs about 4/5lb; if your horse is an average 500/550 kilos he should be getting around 8 kilos if you want him to lose weight, thats roughly around 17lb a day or 4/5 slices. What you don't want is for him to become hungry as it will lead to behaviour problems.
 
Well I'd agree with you if he hadn't got an accute attack of laminitis. At the moment loosing the weight quick could save his life. He is not small, but not obese either and was competition fit prior to the injection (Pic in April )

I went through the 1% of body weight, 24 hr soaked hay and still was told not to feed him (although did begrudingly say I could feed bran mash to get his brewers yeast in).
 
Can i recommend you giving Simple systems website a glance at - www.simplesystem.co.uk . They will supply you with any details you need for correct feeding... my ex Lammi thrives on it. I was lucky enough with my boy when he had acute Lammi that he wasnt actually fat. but i do know how hard it is to get weight off them when they have it.. easier said than done. Good luck.
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starving a horse can cause problems such as colic and hyperlidaemia- this can be fatal.horses can also start to break down their muscles for energy and this can cause kidney problems
weight loss should be gradual even if the horse is lamanitic.
hay soaked for 24 hours in fresh water and rinsed well, will have hardly any calories but will keep your horses gut and mental state happy.
personally, i would be adding in at 2 more slices of hay over 24 hours. plus a mineral and vitamin suppliment to supply him with the building blocks for recovery
frog pads on the feet and strict box rest-dont even bring him out for mucking out.i assume he is on bute and acp?
the more he moves abut while in a acute attack the more damage can be done.
once he is sound off bute i would walk him out on soft ground a few times a day as the increased movement will be helpful to recovery of the feet.
some horses can take several months to recover to the point where they can get turnout in a sand pen(and sometimes the cannot have grass for quite a long time after that)
hope he recovered soon poor boyo
 
no no no....you MUST seek the opinion of another vet!
starving horses as a "cure" for a laminitic attack is outdated and cruel!
as with any weight loss plan it should be done sensibly over time, and soaked hay (for at least 24 hours!) is nothing more than dietry fibre, no goodness left in at all all (bit like you eating dry weetabix i suppose!)
but before you go down the weight loss road you need to get your boy right again, which unfortunatley can take months if its been a bad attack.
 
My horse has a liver problem and due to this has had laminitis several times, he is a 16.1 dutch warmblood and was always fit and in full work when it happened. he was not overfed and only went out in the field for a couple of hours a day as I knew he was prone to laminitis.
Between my vet and farrier they have saved my horses life on each occasion. He was never starved, he had three meals a day, chaff and high fiber cubes, hay little and often through out the day, bute and acp tablets. He was shod with dental impression material packed into the back half of his feet, he was put on a very very deep woodchip bed to keep his feet off the floor. He was not moved from the stable at all, I massaged him every day to help keep his circulation going. Both Spillers and Dodsen and Horrell were very helpful when I spoke to them about feeding him while he had laminitis and continuing to feed him afterwards they are worth contacting.
 
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