Laminitis again- advice needed. A bit long, sorry!

wormhugs

wormhugs

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 November 2007
Messages
339
Location
North Oxfordshire
Visit site
I need a bit of advice everybody! I havent been in this situation before so any help appreciated.
My horse has been a laminitic for 3 years. It started as a weight bearing laminitis as a result of a bruised sole and the vet said that he wouldnt be at an increased risk of grass laminitis as it didnt cause it the first time. Well he was and last year came down with it very suddenly.
This year I have been super paranoid and he had his muzzle on from the beginning of April on alternate days on winter grazing.
3 weeks ago, YO decided to turn him out on rich grazing for 2 days without prior warning despite my asking to be told if he was to be moved. A day or 2 later I found digital pulses in all 4 feet and he was a bit short in front. Vet advised box rest for 3 days. He doesnt cope well with being in by himself (box walks, constant neighing) and after 2 days a different vet said I could turn him out on small pretty bare paddock with muzzle on.
And thats still the situation. Its 3 weeks on and nothing has changed. He still has digital pulses in all 4 feet but has only been a bit pottery twice. He doesnt appear to be in any pain the rest of the time. The pulses fluctuate- some days they are weaker and I think there is an improvement, but the next day they are back. They are not 'bounding', but definitely detectable.
My question is really, is it just going to take time to return to normal, or do I need to be managing him differently?
He is fed 1/2 scoop of Safe & Sound twice a day, is turned out 8-4 and gets haylage at night. The haylege was only cut 3 days before the hay so is not nearly as rich as normal haylege and the alternative is really grotty hay. He is also slightly underweight (ribs visible) as I have been totally paranoid all winter, fat lot of good its done me!
Wine and chocolate cookies if you've made it this far!!
 
I can understand you being paranoid - I am too! Having had 2 with lami, my old mare has now gone onto rich, fertilised grass for the first time in at least 12 years. I'm also checking pulses daily!

My view is that digital pulses alone aren't a very good indication. Are his feet hot? Being pottery isn't a good sign, and definitely worth keeping an eye on. Generally I would want to see 2 signs before really worrying (ie, pulses and footy, or pulses and hot feet etc).

It will take time for him to return to normal, and remember that it's got very warm, very suddenly (only a month ago, we had snow!). I think the warmer weather will make the digital pulses more detectable anyway.

Sounds like you're doing all the right things, and playing it safe. I don't think there's a lot more you can do - keep monitoring him closely and consult your vet if he gets any worse.

Hope this helps - sorry for long reply!
 
Hi Rana,
Thanks for the reply.
You know the handsome chap in question, box no. 8 at your old yard
grin.gif

The thing that is concerning me is that he is just not getting any better. The pulses are still there after 3 weeks and definitely coincided with being out in the rich grass. His feet arent hot. He seems very well in himself, but I just want him to get better!! Being of work for so long is really worrying me because of his arthritis.
Thanks for your reply, I will pass on your best wishes to him!!
Hope your girlie is well,
x
 
I thought it might be
wink.gif
Something about your original post, plus I saw the owner of horse in number 2 recently and she mentioned your boy has had another bout.

Poor lad. Can he go into the arena, or on the track? I guess even one of the small fields behind the bungalow would have too much grass in now
frown.gif
I'd be inclined to carry on with what you're doing, especially as he isn't lame. What did your vet recommend re. working him? Mine always said to do gentle exercise, ridden or lunging, as long as they were sound, as it helps the blood supply to the hoof.

My girly is very well, very fat and happy, and loving life! I'll pm you a pic shortly...

Hope he feels better soon
x
 
He is in one of the fields behind the bungalow, when it gets too grassy (i.e. any grass!!!) we borrow an equine hoover to suck up the excess
grin.gif
There is more grass on the track than in the field. I dont think we would be allowed in the arena, and certainly not with any haylege. And he is just as noisy in there, silly b****r!!
I took him for a walk in hand one day when his pulses were quite quiet and they were much stronger when we got back. That really put me off doing it again. I will speak to the vet again, I just wanted to pick the brains of HHO-ers for any pearls of wisdom first!
laugh.gif

Will look forward to the pic, glad your girlie is well!
x
 
It doesn't really sound like the current regime is working for him.
TBH I wouldn't want him out on hard ground/grazing until he was totally sound.

I would keep him in on a deep bed to support his feet and give acp (helps with bloodflow in feet as well as keeping him calm) and bute. I have been told by the vet/laminitis trust that they should be kept in like this for at least 30 days.

If he is still pottery after being kept in for 2 weeks I would have a cushings test just in case.

What a shame your YO was so irresponsible
frown.gif
I hope he's feeling better soon.
 
Hi there, thanks for your reply. Hmm, yes, I dont think it is really working either. At the moment though he is sound, he has only had 3 days (not concurrent) in 3 weeks of slight potteryness (is that a word?!?)
I totally know where you are coming from with the keeping him in, but he has arthritis in both hock and front fetlocks, and I worry about not getting any excersise at all, even if he is just ambling round a tiny field.
It is definitely not cushings (says she!). He was the first on the yard to be in full summer coat
grin.gif
and shows none of the other signs.
Thanks for you comments though, will have a mull....
x
 
Plenty of equine hoovers about!

You're right not to work him if walking in hand made his pulses worse. Different regimes work for different horses, so it may take a while before you find what's really working for him.

Good point above re. ACP. I used Sedalin gel for both of mine, just at a low dose so it doesn't sedate them.

Shame he couldn't go in the arena, that would be ideal - soft footing for a leg stretch. Might be worth asking. I used it a few times for Rana when she was on box rest with her mudfever.
 
I'm 10 miles from being any sort of expert but if ned is till pottery and not recovering I would get the farrier out to give him support for his frogs. You will know that there is a very real risk that as the hoof wall separates from the internal laminae, there is little to hold the pedal bone in place and the enormous pulling pressure from the deep digital tendon can rotate the pedal bone and then ned is in big trouble. I'd have got that done immediately. It's a difficult one coz exercise keeps the blood circulating round the foot properly but also uses the tendons that could then rotate the pedal bone. What about frog supports, tiny bare paddock, one fat friend and see how he is in a few days? I'd have the vet straight out again if no improvement. Fingers crossed x
 
Hi Beehugs!
grin.gif

Thanks for this advice, I like this better than the idea of box rest
laugh.gif
He hasn't had frog supports per se on before, just polystyrene that is hoof shaped and strapped on with duck tape. Everyone has suggested what has been at the back of my mind, that the current regime isnt cutting it for him, so I think I'd better just cut to the chase and get the vet out to see him. Hopefully he will think frog supports are the way forward too- we have the tiny bare paddock and fat friend in place!
grin.gif

Will pass everyones best wishes on to ned himself
grin.gif
 
I have several native-type ponies with varying degrees of digital pulse from almost nothing to slight and have been checking them twice daily for the last few weeks, but amazingly all pulses have disappeared with the colder weather these last few days. Has yours gone down now?
 
Gosh you must be relieved! That is good news for your guys!
Last night his pulses were still present and no different to how they have been
frown.gif
I am going to call the vet now and arrange for him to come this afternoon, I am encouraged by Box of Frogs' suggestion of frog supports, that may allow him to stay out and recover, rather than have to be in his stable on box rest. That would be a real bonus for him!
 
I didn't have frog supports, but did go onto Natural Balance shoeing (this was with my oldie). I found this really helped her.

Don't want to start a debate on NB shoeing, as I know there's a lot of different views on it
laugh.gif
Just another suggestion to discuss with your vet/farrier.
 
Hope they are okay

My pony doesnt suffer from lami, but he is in all day and out on a night to keep his weight down. He has a haynet in his stable with a small amount in if he wants it as i heard it is important to keep their guts moving? He is in from 7am ish till around 4:30pm. Does this sound the right way of doing things? Or is he in too long? or not long enough? should i not give him an option of something to eat?
 
i think its just a case of whatever works best for your horse, when my boy forst got it he had the frog support, sole support on his feet, due to a rather rubbish farrier he fitted these too tight and they caused a slit in his hoof (which was blind panic as we thought it was the pedal bone coming through. I had a nightmare with vet and farrier, I got a second opinion - they took his shoes off he had his feet trimmed/reshaped every 4 weeks and he came sound within 3months. With the shoes he was crippled.
All i can suggest is get a good farrier, keep them on a good diet and keep your eye on them.
If you are worried about his progress - i suggest speak to your Farrier. Good luck and keep me informed.
grin.gif
 
Oh thank you!! I promise to post an update on how he is getting on when we have (hopefully!) good news!
What a complete nightmare for you, you must have nearly died when you thought the pedal bone was coming through the sole of the foot. That would have been horrific
crazy.gif

I am lucky to have an excellent farrier and the vet who is coming out later is the one that dealt with him last year, so knows my boy.
I am so touched, people have been really lovely in their replies. Hope I will have good news to report soon
laugh.gif
 
Hi Apollo2,
That sounds like a sensible way of controlling a fatty pony
grin.gif
You are doing absolutely right in giving him something to eat, it is very important that he has fibre to munch on. How small is his haynet? If he finishes it really quickly but you dont want to pile on the pounds, have you considered giving him a bigger net, that has been soaked for a couple of hours to remove all the nutrients, or even good quality oat straw? This is lower in calories than hay, and my boy certainly used to enjoy eating it before I swopped him on to shavings.
grin.gif
Hope you manage to keep him slim and safe!
x
 
Hi

Yes it is quite small and he gets two small flaps or one big one. I'm not sure what kind it is though, he is on straw.
 
Thanks for the links, despite your crafy efforts to prevent me from looking at the 2nd one by missing out a 'u' from 'groups'
wink.gif

I am fairly sure that this has been brought on from his turnout on to stupidly rich grass for 2 days, but thank you for info on EMS- it never hurts to know more about this area.
It is just so frustrating that all these problems were caused by something so simple as standing on a stone a couple of years ago.
I feel a bit relieved now I have decided to get the vet to come and have a look-see and hopefully set him firmly on the road to recovery!
 
He's a 14.2hh connemara, do you think he should be getting more? the only thing is that he is on loan I've got to be careful how I appraoch the situation if I think something should be changed. I am pleased though that she is keeping him in during the day and that she is aware of the risks
 
If he is finishing it pretty quickly and is standing in all day with nothing to eat, then I think he needs to have more, but soaked to remove all the nutrients that will pile on the pounds. Have you noticed him eating his bed- this might well keep him occupied once his haynet is finished!
You could also try a small holed haylege net to keep him occupied longer if he does guzzle it down
laugh.gif
 
my 13.2 connemara mare is 26 years old & has suffered from laminitis for many years now. Four years ago she was even booked in to be PTS but i couldnt go thru with it as i have had her since a 7 y.o. Anyway, we have managed to maintain the problem the best we can by doing the following:

First of all remove his shoes, get the hooves x-rayed & fit plastic front shoes, these are the ones we had put on. A good farier should be able to work with the xrays to make the horse more comfortable.
http://www.imprintshoes.co.uk/

Keep him box rested, regardsless of how difficuklt you may think it will be (is there another horse in a box next hij to keep him company?) Try mirrors/boredom ball etc in his box.

Give ACP (on vets advice) * bute if neccesary to help the blood flow to the hoof & to make more comfortable.

Put a very deep bed down to act a shock absorber.

Soak your hay/haylage to reduce any sugars that are in there still & put in a small holes haynet so it takes them time to get it out thus releiving boredom.

Hardfeed - we swear upon Spillers Happy Hoof & have used this ever since she 1st had laminintis.

We also fed D&H herbs when she was particularly bad, Standfree & mobility. This seamed to help with her joints as she too suffers from arthiritis.

She also has a strong joint supplement too.

When you feel your horse can come off the drugs or he may not need them now, try the Equine America Buteless as its did jus the trick, fab!

After all of this if you feel you can take him out of his box for a walk, do so on soft ground & i bout some foam garden kneeling pads, cut them to the shape of her hooves & fixed them on so there was no shockwaves hitting her feet. Seems to work very well.

When he is able to go back out again ALWAYS use the Greenguard muzzle. Dont be tempted to take it off as ive learned it just not worth it.

I hope this helps & good luck!
 
Thanks for all this advice, it all sounds good and sensible- I particularly like the foam kneeling pads, will remember that in future!
I posted an update in NL this morning saying that will the wet/cool weather yesterday his pulses disappeared
laugh.gif
The vet said to keep a VERY close eye on him for the next 2 weeks and if they re-occur it will have to be box rest. He is such a bug*er- when I kept him in a couple of days at the beginning of this bout he was neighing even though there was a horse in 5 boxes down with his head over the door. Apparently company won't do, it has to be the 'right' company!!
tongue.gif

He gets a joint supplement, and is on a satchet of Danilon every other day for his arthritis . You say you think the herbs help on top of the joint supplement?
He used to be on Happy Hoof, but thought it dull! He much prefers Safe & Sound
laugh.gif

I do hope to be able to rehabilitate him into normal horsey society again after this has all calmed down, rather than having to spend all summer alone in a tiny wee field. Will have to consult with vet about that, but rest assured Greenguard will practically be stapled on.
Thanks again for your advice, and well done on helping your mare through such a rough patch, I hope she is enjoying life now
x
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top