Laminitis and molasses!

dominobrown

dominobrown

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Am I missing something here??

If you have a horse with laminitis/ prone to it/ or very fat you don't want to feed it molasses (sugar basically) right?

Why do endless feed companies make endless products coated it in molasses for laminitis prone ponies then?

And why does the laminitis trust but there label on it if it is bad for laminitics?

Why is trying to find a molasses feed like trying to push water uphill?!

And finally... is honey coated feed any better? Or do wild horses is the wild regularly raid bee hives? Genuine question... is honey good for horses?
 
I know I researched chaff for this reason, I now use hifi no mollasses but most have some sort of sugar coating, honey is still sugar so no I would not feed it, I have stopped feeding molasses to either of my horses as I think its totally unecessary.
 
something I've often wondered, too. It's supposed to make the feed more palatable I guess, horse enjoys it, you buy more. I've always been warded against high sugar levels for horses who are prone to Lami, Sweet Itch or gastric ulcers, yet many many feeds contain molasses?
 
Hmmm ... my theory is that feeds are coated in molasses so you actually can't see whats in it. Am not sure about the UK, but here it nearly always says "Ingredients selected from:" :confused:

I buy whole grain (oats) and feed them and chaff. That way I can see what I'm getting. :) And my laminitis prone old mare does just fine on it, as long as I watch her on the spring grass.
 
The reason most fermentated chaffs have molasses added is to keep consistency throught the bagging season as the bugs that ferment it use up the sugar (altho the more you add the more sugar is left over at the end when the bugs run out of air and die) as the temp changes/ grass changes it can affect the fermentation process the molasses helps level it out.
 
dominobrown said:
Am I missing something here??

If you have a horse with laminitis/ prone to it/ or very fat you don't want to feed it molasses (sugar basically) right?

Why do endless feed companies make endless products coated it in molasses for laminitis prone ponies then?


Why is trying to find a molasses feed like trying to push water uphill?!

And finally... is honey coated feed any better? Or do wild horses is the wild regularly raid bee hives? Genuine question... is honey good for horses?
Click to expand...

It's a bit of a con, there are two labels commonly used both with near identical design. One says 'Approved by the Laminitis Trust' and is safe to use. The other (nearly identical remember) says 'Supporting research by the Laminitis Trust' (or similar. All that means is that they give a donation to the trust so they can claim involvement with them.

Very naughty for those of us with lammi prone horses.
 
My current theory is that you can get any rubbishy poor quality oat straw, cover it in molasses to hide the fact that it is rubbish and make sure horses eat. Probably gives it a longer shelf life too.
Feed merchant has 'baileys Light Chaff' for £5 a bag at the moment (introductory offer, not stuff that's going out of date) so I have stoked up on that.
I do sometimes get the Dengie No molasses alfa/ hi-fi. The Dengie and Baileys Alfa-a with oil is molasses free, but I don't like to feed that unless they are in hard(ish) work.
 
To qualify for the 'approved by the laminitis trust' logo, a feed must only have a combined NSC (sugar and starch) of no more than 10%. Ingredients are not taken into account, and the product does not have to undergo any testing to prove its safe for laminitics.

The feed companies do have to pay for the privilege of displaying the logo, however.

Owners should be aware that just because a feed has the 'approved by the laminitis trust' logo - it does NOT necessarily mean the feed is safe for laminitics, sadly. Owners must do their own research, and make their own decision as to what's safe - don't rely on the blurb on a bag of feed to guide you!
 
I used to spend so long turning those damned bags over and checking ingredients (and also online) that they used to bring me a coffee at the feed place ! There needs to be some serious tightening up of the labelling of animal feeds, and every single ingredient should be listed (often not).

It is a minefield as they all shout out "I'm healthy" !!
 
Its all about the money. Companies can pay anyone for anything these days because we are a generation of greedy selfish people. I think there is something called honey chop which is natural nothing added chaff. I could be wrong on the name but cant check as im on my phone. Other than that i can recommend fast fibre which is a quick soak feed.
 
I think that if you own a horse, you should know enough about them to know what to feed and what not to.

If you are silly enough to rely on what feed companies and their paid nutritionalist propaganda merchants tell you then you are lazy as well as stupid.

As far as things like the Laminitis Trust go, they need the money, and there wouldn't be much need for them if people didn't keep poisoning their horses.
 
dominobrown said:
Am I missing something here??

If you have a horse with laminitis/ prone to it/ or very fat you don't want to feed it molasses (sugar basically) right?

Why do endless feed companies make endless products coated it in molasses for laminitis prone ponies then?

And why does the laminitis trust but there label on it if it is bad for laminitics?

Why is trying to find a molasses feed like trying to push water uphill?!

And finally... is honey coated feed any better? Or do wild horses is the wild regularly raid bee hives? Genuine question... is honey good for horses?
Click to expand...

I am about 4 years away from where you are now :D.

I remember the righteous indignation well :D

It gets even more frustrating when you appreciate that horses do a pretty efficient job with grass, forage, sunlight and internal synthesis. Bucket feeds/supplements etc aren't always as essential as the feed companies would have us believe. When you religiously read the labels - you often find the "jump higher" "run faster" "stay calm" etc feeds and supplements are mostly the same cheap ass ingredients with a different box :mad:.

Let's also discuss commercial dog food and human 'diet/healthy' foods too :eek:.

I am trying to stay away from sugar and wheat......I have to pay extra for stuff without them added :mad: Hells bells - it's not like I'm paying extra for extra stuff.....I'm paying extra for NOT having stuff added :confused:
 
claribella said:
Its all about the money. Companies can pay anyone for anything these days because we are a generation of greedy selfish people. I think there is something called honey chop which is natural nothing added chaff. I could be wrong on the name but cant check as im on my phone. Other than that i can recommend fast fibre which is a quick soak feed.
Click to expand...

Honeychop is a brand and they do a plain chopped straw but also other products.
 
^ OB worse than dog food, cat food. "With extra veg...!" (for a carnivore?)

Worse is the stuff vets tend to recommend, normally quite worrying when you look into it.
 
This really winds me up, I work selling these feeds and you would be amazed what crap people want. Mollichaff extra is a top seller, purely on price surely, happy hoof is the best seller for lammi prone and those who want advise thinks I'm mad when I tell them I wouldn't feed it and why. And basic mix is another good seller.
You can try to educate but many don't want to know it's purely price to them.
 
This is no different to the human feed labelling and advertising. Corporations will always do whatever is closest to the law that they can get away with.

Ill informed is not the same as being stupid Pale Rider, most horse owners are ill informed about horse feeds, I would never call people stupid until they had been given correct information and then done nothing to change the way they do things.
 
The feed world is slowly cottening on to more mollasses free feed hi-fi have brought out an unmollased version and it has mint and fenugreek in it to make it more pallatable and my lad loves it so need for sugar to taste it up, hes not lami prone but i use this chaff as i keep my horses barefoot and feed for good digestive and hoof health.
 
thatsmygirl said:
This really winds me up, I work selling these feeds and you would be amazed what crap people want. Mollichaff extra is a top seller, purely on price surely, happy hoof is the best seller for lammi prone and those who want advise thinks I'm mad when I tell them I wouldn't feed it and why. And basic mix is another good seller.
You can try to educate but many don't want to know it's purely price to them.
Click to expand...

I used to feed Obi mollichop and bran when I was a teenager :o.
 
Pale Rider said:
If you are silly enough to rely on what feed companies and their paid nutritionalist propaganda merchants tell you then you are lazy as well as stupid.
Click to expand...



PR I am going to button push on you for this comment unless you withdraw it. It is highly offensive to more novice horse owners and to people who have not yet learned to distrust "experts" in all walks of life. Please tone down your language.
 
Oberbubbles didn't we all :)
it's only when I come out of racing and into the feed section that I started to get the training on these feeds and making my own mind up. U wouldn't believe what crap the reps come out with.
And trying to tell somebody that has a horse on mollichaff, sugar beet and competition mix but moaning that it's being silly so what calmers do I sell!! It's hard sometimes it really is.
 
I had some interesting correspondence with Dengie trying to understand why they didnt put the full nutritional info on their sacks of supposedly healthy chaffs/feeds. They claimed they arent 'alllowed' to, altho I pointed out that other feed manufacturers do - they said they were breaking the 'rules' :-(((

I know the info is on their website but not everyone has web access and it makes it hard to compare chaffs etc in the feed store.

Without knowing what the sugars and starches are in the feed it is very hard to judge which is the lowest/most suitable for a lami.

One wonders if part of the reason is they dont always want to print the reality of the feeds being actually not that low and skinny and sugars and starches.
 
claribella said:
Its all about the money. Companies can pay anyone for anything these days because we are a generation of greedy selfish people. I think there is something called honey chop which is natural nothing added chaff. I could be wrong on the name but cant check as im on my phone. Other than that i can recommend fast fibre which is a quick soak feed.
Click to expand...

Yes Honeychop looks fab, the lady at the company was so helpful when I called her, and they do a molasses free version too which is fab for fatties and lami's, feed merchant cant get any until the new year though :(
 
katie_southwest said:
I fed my good doer cob Alfa A original and Pasture mix when I first got her :D

I laugh now , she has FF to hide her supplements.
She must of thought she was in horse heaven being dished that up each evening :D
Click to expand...

I moved on to Meadowsweet after that - because my friend's mum told me it was good :eek:

Then he had D&H's 16 plus for years......then Happy Hoof :rolleyes:

No wonder he gets excited by buckets now :D

My Tank on the other hand has only ever known 'health food' and he's really not that bothered by buckets :o.

I know a little bit about feeding basically because I've learned from pretty much every mistake possible over the years :p.
 
It is funny how things seem to do a whole circle...it seems we are now heading back to the less is more mode..Which is a good thing.
My Lami prone lad is now on FF and Dengie Molasses free with Top Spec Anti Lam thrown in for good measure.But it has already been said that you cannot blame the ill informed for making the wrong feed choice on the back of feed company recommendations. When my lad first came down with it the first thought was to get him onto Happy Hoof as it was endorsed by the Lami Trust..My vet threw a fit and told me to bin the lot.
 
The thing is everything contains sugars and starches in varying levels including hay.
The Laminitus trust logo just tells you that the combined level are less than the approved 10% target It's a very crude measure of whether something is good to feed or not and makes no differentiation between different types of sugar so in theory something can contain molasses but be lower in overall sugar level than hay. I know from some hair raising experiences that molassed chaffs had a certain effect on mine but he is fine on haylage which given the quantities will be supplying more sugar overall.

People are also quite quick to reject feed if the horse doesn't eat it all up at once (mine can take a little while to get used to a new flavour and they are both greedy) so while I'm not defending feed companies I can see that the pressure to create something that is instantly palatable.

Molasses not only make it palatable and add calories but also preserve. Alfalfa will crumble if not coated so the options are molasses, oil or molglo (a mixture of the two generally used in anything that says lite). When I did feed Alfalfa I used the pellets as they have nothing added to them.



My rule of thumb is always to read the label and ask myself if these things were laid out in front of me as ingredients would I choose to feed them.
 
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