laminitis, could someone explain??

You can see how much "rotation" there has been just by looking at the front wall of the hoof, viewed from the side. There's a fair bit, but with frequent, appropriate trimming you can encourage the new hoof to grow in at a good angle.

This site shows it quite well:

http://www.barefoothorse.com/barefoot_Toni_Founder.html

Have a look at the pic a little way down the page which shows the angle that the new wall is trying to grow in at. It starts off at the "correct" angle at the coronet band, and then slips forward further down towards the ground. When the new wall grows in strongly, it'll carry on at the same steep angle as at the coronet band pretty much the whole way down the hoof.

So you can see at a glance that your horse has a lot of rotation, and the Xrays will confirm this.

However, what is more difficult to see without an xray is how much sinking there has been (although you get an idea from any dip in the coronet band, and also from lack of concavity in the sole, and any crescent shaped bruise in the sole), so the Xray will at least give you an idea how close the pedal bone is to the floor.

Some people seem to think that rotation can't be corrected. If your farrier/trimmer think that, then I'd definitely change to someone else who has a good reputation for rehabbing laminitics.

Sarah
 
flintfootfilly said:
You can see how much "rotation" there has been just by looking at the front wall of the hoof, viewed from the side. There's a fair bit, but with frequent, appropriate trimming you can encourage the new hoof to grow in at a good angle.

This site shows it quite well:

http://www.barefoothorse.com/barefoot_Toni_Founder.html

Have a look at the pic a little way down the page which shows the angle that the new wall is trying to grow in at. It starts off at the "correct" angle at the coronet band, and then slips forward further down towards the ground. When the new wall grows in strongly, it'll carry on at the same steep angle as at the coronet band pretty much the whole way down the hoof.


So you can see at a glance that your horse has a lot of rotation, and the Xrays will confirm this.

However, what is more difficult to see without an xray is how much sinking there has been (although you get an idea from any dip in the coronet band, and also from lack of concavity in the sole, and any crescent shaped bruise in the sole), so the Xray will at least give you an idea how close the pedal bone is to the floor.

Some people seem to think that rotation can't be corrected. If your farrier/trimmer think that, then I'd definitely change to someone else who has a good reputation for rehabbing laminitics.

Sarah
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i have been told pedal bones dont rotate...:mad:

i dont understand why they think this?.... he has very flat soles, very thin.. the bone is very close to the sole.. according to the vet....i will NOT trust another barefoot trimmer! sorry to any trimmers on here...
 
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Pale Rider said:
Diet looks ok to me, obviously something going on in the feet, which is the most likely symptom of low grade laminitis.

Personally I'd get some boots and pads on and get him out for some exercise. Box rest is really a bad idea for laminitis, movement is the best cure for stimulating the feet to repair themselves and ensure the feed he gets albeit soaked hay is put to some use. If there is any rotation in the pedal bone movement stimulates the feet and aids the reversal process.
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Really would not move him about until you get at least two sets of xrays to know that the pedal bone has settled....my lamis first xrays show 11 and 10 degree roatation with only 3mm of sole and the second showed another 1.5 on one hoof and .5 on the other but the third xray show they had settled and grown a little sole we weren't allowed out of the stable until he could come sound without bute and have alot more sole growth.

xxx
 
slightlyconfused said:
Really would not move him about until you get at least two sets of xrays to know that the pedal bone has settled....my lamis first xrays show 11 and 10 degree roatation with only 3mm of sole and the second showed another 1.5 on one hoof and .5 on the other but the third xray show they had settled and grown a little sole we weren't allowed out of the stable until he could come sound without bute and have alot more sole growth.

xxx
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^5 this dont move him at all leave him in stable trust your vet firstly.
Then just a good remedial FARRIER.

I trust mine 100% but then he is one of the best :D


Box rest is really a bad idea for laminitis
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Sorry I don't agree I was told by the Laminitic Trust - My vet _ My Farrier box rest was the way to go and it is !!!!
 
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The lack of puncutation has lost me somewhat I'm afraid so I may have missed something.

I had a shetland X with 15degrees of rotation in both fronts (and about 8 degress in both backs). He was being used in a RS like that and when he was dumped at our yard (he had to be carried off the trailer :() I was told he'd 'just had a severe trim so his feet were a bit sensitive' :grr: RS has now been shut for cruelty .....


Anways, a horse with active laminitis SHOULD NOT BE WORKED. They need to have very limited movement whilst the lamina is inflamed and weak otherwise they just tear it more.

Once the inflamation has subsided then gentle movement IS benficial, but it should be their choice, not forced. Their feet cannot grow and recover with no movement.

I am not a fan of shoeing laminitics: the attatchment of the hoof wall is tearing and excruitiatingly painful so how on earth putting MORE pressure through it by wall loading (as shoes do) can help, I fail to see.

Pads are the way to go. It's the WALL that's painful and damaged, so pads can be used to tranfer all the pressure to the sole and frog, whilst minimising bruising. Boot are really useful to keep the pads in the exact right place. A deep thick bed, that most vets recommend, does a very similar thing (but boots are cheaper! A deep bed came work out really expensive!).

Severe roation can be grown out. The torn wall grow down and, as long as the feet are regularly trimmed to take off all excess growth that could cause leaverage, it will grow back in parallel with the bone.

My pony spend 2weeks on complete box rest until his lami has subsided (was already improving) and spent 3 months living in boots and pads. He had his wall trimmed off completely so he was standing only on his frogs and soles. His laminia was so damaged that it regularly abcessed (you can see the black tracks in it). Everytime his toe walls grew they were taken off again.


Showpics20thJuly025.jpg

Showpics20thJuly097.jpg

Showpics20thJuly098.jpg


He developed seriously thick soles (couple cms) and huge frogs. After a couple of months the new wall was at a completely different angle to the old wall. Once that new wall had reached the ground (took about 4-5months) he was allowed to grow his feet as normal. About the same time his soles and frogs peeled off and left him with perfect, but soft, new ones. He now has perfect little feet.

The vet had never seen such bad rotation and wanted to have him PTS. Or failing that, shod with stupidly expensive shoes for at least a year (would have cost thousands). The remedial farrier he was sent to took off all his soles and frogs and made him really sore. It set him back weeks and he needed extra thick pads in his boots to make him comfy. That was the last time he saw a vet (or that farrier!). Instead he was gentle exercised (in his boots) and I trimmed his toes every week as the first farrier showed me.

Point is: it's more than possible to grow out rotated feet, as long as you let the horse do it themselves and keep them comfy whilst they're doing it.

However, as cptrays said, if it's recurrent lami due to cushings, that whole new ball game and the feet will never heal until the cushings is controlled.
 
Kallibear said:
The lack of puncutation has lost me somewhat I'm afraid so I may have missed something.

I had a shetland X with 15degrees of rotation in both fronts (and about 8 degress in both backs). He was being used in a RS like that and when he was dumped at our yard (he had to be carried off the trailer :() I was told he'd 'just had a severe trim so his feet were a bit sensitive' :grr: RS has now been shut for cruelty .....


Anways, a horse with active laminitis SHOULD NOT BE WORKED. They need to have very limited movement whilst the lamina is inflamed and weak otherwise they just tear it more.

Once the inflamation has subsided then gentle movement IS benficial, but it should be their choice, not forced. Their feet cannot grow and recover with no movement.

I am not a fan of shoeing laminitics: the attatchment of the hoof wall is tearing and excruitiatingly painful so how on earth putting MORE pressure through it by wall loading (as shoes do) can help, I fail to see.

Pads are the way to go. It's the WALL that's painful and damaged, so pads can be used to tranfer all the pressure to the sole and frog, whilst minimising bruising. Boot are really useful to keep the pads in the exact right place. A deep thick bed, that most vets recommend, does a very similar thing (but boots are cheaper! A deep bed came work out really expensive!).

Severe roation can be grown out. The torn wall grow down and, as long as the feet are regularly trimmed to take off all excess growth that could cause leaverage, it will grow back in parallel with the bone.

My pony spend 2weeks on complete box rest until his lami has subsided (was already improving) and spent 3 months living in boots and pads. He had his wall trimmed off completely so he was standing only on his frogs and soles. His laminia was so damaged that it regularly abcessed (you can see the black tracks in it). Everytime his toe walls grew they were taken off again.


Showpics20thJuly025.jpg

Showpics20thJuly097.jpg

Showpics20thJuly098.jpg


He developed seriously thick soles (couple cms) and huge frogs. After a couple of months the new wall was at a completely different angle to the old wall. Once that new wall had reached the ground (took about 4-5months) he was allowed to grow his feet as normal. About the same time his soles and frogs peeled off and left him with perfect, but soft, new ones. He now has perfect little feet.

The vet had never seen such bad rotation and wanted to have him PTS. Or failing that, shod with stupidly expensive shoes for at least a year (would have cost thousands). The remedial farrier he was sent to took off all his soles and frogs and made him really sore. It set him back weeks and he needed extra thick pads in his boots to make him comfy. That was the last time he saw a vet (or that farrier!). Instead he was gentle exercised (in his boots) and I trimmed his toes every week as the first farrier showed me.

Point is: it's more than possible to grow out rotated feet, as long as you let the horse do it themselves and keep them comfy whilst they're doing it.

However, as cptrays said, if it's recurrent lami due to cushings, that whole new ball game and the feet will never heal until the cushings is controlled.
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thankyou for that :) vet is happpy that his cushings is controled... as i said before his acth levels were 245 they are now 26...
 
Don't panic view this on laminitis you will see allot of my pictures of my mare
http://equinecare-and-control.weebly.com/l.html

we have been on box rest since July 12th Last year .

we have had a tough jounrney. Days and nights of expecting PTS.

Keep in boxed till stabilized
rinse hay after soaking though over night 12 hrs
limit calorie intake
feed a good hoof supplement.
Stay strong for him


Its an expensive journey trust me. If he is worth it to you then the reward will be when you come out the other side. Your not the only one in this journey. Yasandcrysstal are too and others , we will always give moral support.

I had it tough as the only one round here to really help for a short time is one lady down the rd who nearly lost hers due to Pedal penetration . The horses Pedal was about to bust through but Billy Crothers got it through.

This lady didn't know me and I felt couldn't chat much to her. But I am not like that Pm me any time. We are 90% through this now the vet actually said to me last week.

  1. No more rotation
  2. no more sinking
  3. no more deterioration of pedal oseitis.
  4. abscess gas shadow reduced.
[If she continues to improve we will see about getting Billy Crothers out in two weeks to put shoe one (glue on one), Then if comfortable we are in agreement she needs to move get blood circulation going. And take in her the arena*
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:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D.

Music to my ears for a horse that hasn't left the courtyard area in 11 months. There is hope do what your vet says seek advice moral support from us who have been through this.

It is an expensive journey well into 4 figures but my mare is worth it.:)

Keep strong and keep your hopes up, he will tell you if he is giving up *D* my mare has fought long and hard and the result is she is still here.
 
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Kallibear said:
I am not a fan of shoeing laminitics: the attatchment of the hoof wall is tearing and excruitiatingly painful so how on earth putting MORE pressure through it by wall loading (as shoes do) can help, I fail to see.

Pads are the way to go. It's the WALL that's painful and damaged, so pads can be used to tranfer all the pressure to the sole and frog, whilst misinforming bruising. Boot are really useful to keep the pads in the exact right place. A deep thick bed, that most vets recommend, does a very similar thing (but boots are cheaper! A deep bed came work out really expensive!).
Click to expand...

Some times Glue on shoes are necessary we had pads along while then we had to change to glue on shoes to help support and improve the shape- angle etc. My farrier has achieved pedal reversal . Yes when not stabilized pads ARE the way to go
 
This is sadly what happens with the poor horses when Laminitis is not diagnosed early enough.



Diary of a Laminitic


This is a true event, based on a single horse’s journey through this traumatic and painful disease. I find myself putting this down on paper in the hope it will help others in this situation with dealing with the stress worry and painful times they will share with their horse or pony during this time. Also I will explain the chain of events along the way they came up due to the initials Diagnoses of Laminitis.

This type of disease reaches a climax during spring and summer, with the lush grass and of the dietary changes when the horses compete and the owners will think their horse will require more starch in their diets. Which most often they do not as they get their nutrition from the grass.

If caught early no really changes of the foot occur. Sadly all too often the first symptoms are often overlooked by the unsuspecting owners as just a mild lack of energy, or the horse being lazy and stumbling. This usually happens with the first onset of Laminitis, it only really becomes obvious in the following year when the body reacts more severely to the symptoms, this is when lameness shows and sadly this is when the owner realizes there is a problem.

Sometimes there is a delay in treatment and the unsuspecting owner will treat the lameness to do with tendon or bruise soles, this is the delay when vital treatment should be done. If the horse has never been diagnosed with Laminitis this is when an owner will treat the horse for something else, only when the symptoms continue is the vet called but by this time damage is done.





Copyright © D.L.B

 
Dont panic....my boy had 11 in one and 13ish degree in the other and is back in full work.....well not jumping because we cringe every time he was landing over a 2'3 :o) you are doing the right thing.
 
OP you say that you have been told that pedal bones do not rotate. If this was a professional that you are currently using with regard to your laminitic horse I would seriously question of they have the knowledge and ability you and your horse need. If this was a vet/ farrier/ trimmer you could not pay me to let them touch my horse. I'm hoping it was a friend or similar!
 
Archie73 said:
OP you say that you have been told that pedal bones do not rotate. If this was a professional that you are currently using with regard to your laminitic horse I would seriously question of they have the knowledge and ability you and your horse need. If this was a vet/ farrier/ trimmer you could not pay me to let them touch my horse. I'm hoping it was a friend or similar!
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trimmer.... i now have a remidial farrier..
 
Phew!! Good to hear, cant imagine it was a proper trimmer though, amazing what people get away with! My remedial farrier and vet know nothing about diet!!!! Hope it all goes your way soon Hun.
 
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