Laminitis feeding advice please?

[poiuytrewq]

Horse has just come down with laminitis for the first time ever. He's 19 coming up 20 yrs retired ID type. Not massively fat but yes over weight.
He's in on deep pellets and I'm feeding soaked hay morning, lunch time and evening.
He's also getting a handful of chaff (unmolassed plain chaff) with 2x2 sachets of Danilon.
He's eating fine, is now moving round and no longer looking terrifyingly ill.
My worry is he's, in the past been a bit colicky, not regularly but a few times over the years.
So he's gone from grass 24/7 to being in 24/7 and probably will be for a while yet. I'd like to be feeding him something to keep his guts moving and get more fluids in. (Not drinking a huge amount)
First thought was a bran? Maybe a bran mash every few days or something like speedibeet. I see some brands are endorsed by the laminitis society (I know he will eat beet type feeds)
He doesn't like Fast Fibre much.
What's best?
Thanks

 

[poiuytrewq]

* also can I hang swede up! To help with the boredom. It's the least sugary thing I can think of

 

[JillA]

The Laminitis Site is much more up to date and reliable than The Laminitis Trust, and what you need is plenty of fibre without sugars or starches. Unmollassed beet pulp is good (Equibeet or Speedibeet) and a little bran for palatability for his medication. I don't think swedes contain much sugar but I could be wrong. Have a read on here http://www.thelaminitissite.org/, it contains pretty much all you need to know.
Has he been tested for Cushings?

 

[Notimetoride]

Sorry, not the question youve asked, but has the vet said keep in? Once they are out of the danger zone, they are often better out on a starvation paddock with numerous piles of soaked hay - gentle walking improves the blood flow to the feet. We found with my gelding who had chronic laminitis, that keeping him in compounded the issue.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Yes the vet said to keep in at the moment. We are very early days still. He was fine Sunday then bad Monday. So fast.
She has said a couple of weeks. However it's not my stable and he has to be moved soon (I literally borrowed a Stable by his field). As soon as he's safe to move I plan to bring him home where I have a woodchip area he can go in, I'm not sure when that will be but hoping fairly soon.
He's not been tested for cushings but that's due to be done when he's out of this acute phase as apparently the results will be un-reliable at the moment.
Thanks for the link!

 

[poiuytrewq]

I think I may be bombarding HHO with questions in the upcoming weeks! So much to learn here. I'm goi g to have to alter my planned management so much.

 

[JillA]

Sorry, not the question youve asked, but has the vet said keep in? Once they are out of the danger zone, they are often better out on a starvation paddock with numerous piles of soaked hay - gentle walking improves the blood flow to the feet. We found with my gelding who had chronic laminitis, that keeping him in compounded the issue.

Agreed - but not for acute lammi and ONLY after the laminae are completely healed and fulfilling their function of supporting P3. Please don't be temped to do too much too soon, unless you can get supportive pads (styrofoam taped on and/or soft pads inside hoof boots) until you are sure there is no further risk of sinkage or rotation. Most vets recommend heart bar shoes but I do worry about nailing shoes on to sore feet and the peripheral loading that, but for the frog support, would predispose to P3 dropping through the sole.
Please please read The Laminitis Site for management and prognosis, they are very very good and very experienced - they are the reason my horse is back in work two years on. And their protocol of barefoot trimming has a much better outcome rate than heartbar (or any other) shoes. Hoof boots with pads and then a very good trimmer are the best in my opinion - and it comes from experience!

 

[meleeka]

I’d push for the Cushings test. The problem is if the laminitis is being caused by Cushings it’s unlikely to get better on its own without treatment for the underlying cause. You could end up with more damage done by waiting.

Speedibeet is fine to feed. Be aware that if you are soaking hay he’s already taking in a lot of water that way which may be why he doesn’t look as if he’s drinking much.

 

[Notimetoride]

Agreed - but not for acute lammi and ONLY after the laminae are completely healed and fulfilling their function of supporting P3. Please don't be temped to do too much too soon, unless you can get supportive pads (styrofoam taped on and/or soft pads inside hoof boots) until you are sure there is no further risk of sinkage or rotation. Most vets recommend heart bar shoes but I do worry about nailing shoes on to sore feet and the peripheral loading that, but for the frog support, would predispose to P3 dropping through the sole.
Please please read The Laminitis Site for management and prognosis, they are very very good and very experienced - they are the reason my horse is back in work two years on. And their protocol of barefoot trimming has a much better outcome rate than heartbar (or any other) shoes. Hoof boots with pads and then a very good trimmer are the best in my opinion - and it comes from experience!

- thats why i said 'out of the danger zone' . Mine would be initially on box rest but as soon as given the green light by the vet, he was out, with a combination of hay/grazing muzzle for part of the day. But I see many people keeping their horses in very long term with laminitis, and this can exacerbate matters.

 

[JillA]

- thats why i said 'out of the danger zone' . Mine would be initially on box rest but as soon as given the green light by the vet, he was out, with a combination of hay/grazing muzzle for part of the day. But I see many people keeping their horses in very long term with laminitis, and this can exacerbate matters.

What you are referring to surely is the rehabilitation and management? Did you get x rays for yours before turning out? That is the key - mine had two sets, one at the outset to see what was going on, and one set once he appeared to be out of the acute stage. Without x rays to confirm that status I wouldn't risk movement without support.
And a good hoofcare professional will need them to rehabilitate the feet anyway, to know exactly what is going on inside

 

[tallyho!]

I would also add a detox like Global Herbs Restore to help the kidneys and liver get rid of any toxins in the body and it also improves circulation, especially if he's in - filled legs can sometimes add to problem and I've found this to help (lots of people really rate it for recovery) especially the lymphatic system. It's not expensive and a bottle lasts about 10 days. Which is all you need really.

I now use it twice a year regardless on my horses. It really picks them up.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I would also add a detox like Global Herbs Restore to help the kidneys and liver get rid of any toxins in the body and it also improves circulation, especially if he's in - filled legs can sometimes add to problem and I've found this to help (lots of people really rate it for recovery) especially the lymphatic system. It's not expensive and a bottle lasts about 10 days. Which is all you need really.

I now use it twice a year regardless on my horses. It really picks them up.

Thanks, is it strong tasting/smelling? He's a fussy eater but that does sound good.

Re- the cushings test the vet said if she took blood at the moment it wouldn't give a true reading until this is under control. We will definitely do one and start him on prescand if needs be. I kind of hope it is that in a way as at least I'll have a reason as to why this has suddenly happened.

 

[Leo Walker]

I'm so sorry to hear this Its a godawful thing to happen to a horse. It was this time last year that Frankie came down with it. I honestly think that it makes little difference what you do sadly. They either recover or they dont. I wouldnt be feeding anything extra though. Hes getting soaked hay so plenty of fibre and fluid. With his painkillers I'd be feeding salt and magnesium and a decent mineral balancer. My second opinion vet got me to feed Top Spec balancer and I'm pretty sure it made him worse.

Make sure you get Xrays and repeat Xrays if you think hes deteriorating. We did run a test for cushings and EMS but we had to wait a while as pain does affect the results.

 

[DaisyMoo]

Sorry, not the question youve asked, but has the vet said keep in? Once they are out of the danger zone, they are often better out on a starvation paddock with numerous piles of soaked hay - gentle walking improves the blood flow to the feet. We found with my gelding who had chronic laminitis, that keeping him in compounded the issue.

I am treating a laminitis horse that was very nearly PTS in June. DO NOT put horse out unless advised by vet. The keeping on box rest has nothing to do with the keeping off grass it's to do with keeping the foot immobile and preventing pedal bone rotation as due to the laminitis the connecting tissue in the foot is no longer providing any support. Please OP take your vet advise and not from people on here. If I had not kept mine on 2 months ish box rest she'd be PTS by now, as with the moving about on hard ground with no support to the foot would have caused the bone to rotate. Thankfully with her in on box rest on 6inch deep shavings bed she is virtually fully recovered has lost 100kgs and has the slightest almost undetectable bone rotation on her last set of xrays

 

[Leo Walker]

I'm pretty shocked at the suggestion to turn out as well! My vet was adamant he was to be immobile. I had to transport him about a month in and I did it with the knowledge that it might well have been the end for him but due to circumstances it was a chance I had to take.

I forgot to say on my post that sedalin really seemed to help mine. Not as a sedative but its something to do with blood flow. Helped anyway!

 

[tallyho!]

Thanks, is it strong tasting/smelling? He's a fussy eater but that does sound good.

Re- the cushings test the vet said if she took blood at the moment it wouldn't give a true reading until this is under control. We will definitely do one and start him on prescand if needs be. I kind of hope it is that in a way as at least I'll have a reason as to why this has suddenly happened.

Ours like it but you can only try. Do look up on the GH website. Anything to help circulation is helpful in laminitis.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

I’d push for the Cushings test. The problem is if the laminitis is being caused by Cushings it’s unlikely to get better on its own without treatment for the underlying cause. You could end up with more damage done by waiting.

Speedibeet is fine to feed. Be aware that if you are soaking hay he’s already taking in a lot of water that way which may be why he doesn’t look as if he’s drinking much.

My friend has just been through this with her 22yr old and you do have to wait until the acute phase is over.

He tested borderline last year but when re-tested was over 900!

We're having our first hack back together on Saturday approx 2 months after he first came down with laminitis. He luckily was caught in time so little or no rotation.

 

[windand rain]

I too am horrified by the suggestion to move all laminitics should be kept immobile intil 30 days after they are sound and off drugs sedalin and painkiller do a lot to keep comfortable but keeping still and preferably lying down allow the laminae to heal
As for food soaked hay and a small sugar free chaff feed with a little speedibeet to make it palatable is fine for his danilon

 

[Notimetoride]

I did say turn out 'one out of the danger zone' .
I had eight years of battling laminitis, very closely guided by my vet. Mine had been on box rest many many times, on a deep bed, and when it was acute, was on ACP (which is no good when its chronic). However as soon as it was safe to, he was back out. Even when not 100% sound, he was better off out, pootling around, which increases the blood supply to the feet. Luckily both my vet and farrier were singing from the same song sheet and advised him to be out as soon as it was safe to do so.

 

[windand rain]

yes but didnt specify what was the danger zone it should be 30 days after being sound and off drugs for acute laminitis

 

[DaisyMoo]

I'm pretty shocked at the suggestion to turn out as well! My vet was adamant he was to be immobile. I had to transport him about a month in and I did it with the knowledge that it might well have been the end for him but due to circumstances it was a chance I had to take.

I forgot to say on my post that sedalin really seemed to help mine. Not as a sedative but its something to do with blood flow. Helped anyway!

My vet said the same as yours 're Sedalin. Helps the blood flow to the feet to prevent the laminae dying off due to lack of blood flow. Another thing my vet said was never cold hose a laminitis as it causes already restricted blood vessels to construct even more. Was advised to put her feet in slightly warm water

 

[JillA]

yes but didnt specify what was the danger zone it should be 30 days after being sound and off drugs for acute laminitis

I still think that is too prescriptive - mine had heartbar shoes on for 6 months and then progressed to hoof boots with pads, soft to begin with and then gradually getting less and less. It takes months for a new hoof capsule with it's new laminae to grow, I wouldn't be putting the pedal bone at risk of rotation or sinkage until x rays show it is well supported and the collateral groove has deepened indicating a good depth below it.
For someone like the OP who is asking questions so clearly not experienced at dealing with the condition it is always best to err on the side of caution - it might save a life. There are always ways to deal with a horse who isn't comfortable on box rest, you just need to be inventive, use sedation, a companion, a mirror, whatever it takes.

 

[Casey76]

I still think that is too prescriptive - mine had heartbar shoes on for 6 months and then progressed to hoof boots with pads, soft to begin with and then gradually getting less and less. It takes months for a new hoof capsule with it's new laminae to grow, I wouldn't be putting the pedal bone at risk of rotation or sinkage until x rays show it is well supported and the collateral groove has deepened indicating a good depth below it.
For someone like the OP who is asking questions so clearly not experienced at dealing with the condition it is always best to err on the side of caution - it might save a life. There are always ways to deal with a horse who isn't comfortable on box rest, you just need to be inventive, use sedation, a companion, a mirror, whatever it takes.

You can't correct sinker without correct heel first landing/movement.

One of the most important things about treating laminitis is the trim. You need X-rays of the feet to see what the alignment of the boney column is like; then you need to trim in accordance with that to correctly align the bones. If necessary you can nerve block the feet to get the X-rays if the horse is too uncomfortable (as advised by ECIR).

After the foot is trimmed correctly you need to pad with proper frog support. Using therapy boots can get a horse out of confinement much faster than just using a deeply littered bed.

And yes, once the acute phase is over (as discussed with the vet), unforced movement is one of the best things for laminitics.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Click on the link below & it should take you to a place that will answer most of your questions.

http://www.laminitisclinic.org/Explaining Laminitis and its Prevention/Chapter 6.pdf

 

[poiuytrewq]

Thankyou for all the help and advice, especially the links which are proving very helpful.
I'm scrapping the bran idea. I knew it caused other issues but thought short term the benefits may outweigh the bad bits. I'm going to get a bag of speedibeet tomorrow just to add a little to his chaff and encourage eating.
I'm amazed *touch wood* how he's coping with this. When he retired a few years ago I swore I'd never do box rest for any reason with him as he hates it and I feel very much that horses live for the moment not to suffer. He has other issues and I thought on Monday that this was the end. I'm now far more hopeful. But still unsure how much box rest I'm willing to do. Will just have to be guided by him I guess but he's currently very chilled and comfortable.

 

[tallyho!]

Click on the link below & it should take you to a place that will answer most of your questions.

http://www.laminitisclinic.org/Explaining Laminitis and its Prevention/Chapter 6.pdf

He's one source but please don't take anything as gospel. Each case on it's own merits.

Look up Jaime Jackson and his book 'Founder', and also Pete Ramey, Gene Ovnicek, Robert Bowker VMD etc... so much research that should not go unnoticed by the average horse owner. I'm not saying all this is gospel either but it's research that's worth paying attention to. Certainly try not to limit yourself to old methods.

Try if you can, to avoid those people that get sponsored by feed companies.

 

[Clodagh]

I am sure I read a Jaime Jackson book years ago when I had a pony that got lami. Doesn't he recommend force walking? And radical trims? If I am right I would not suggest anyone reads his books.