Laminitis??????????????? Help needed?

Mooch

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I'm posting in here as more likely to get a good responce than in veterinary.

My kids little mare came down with what looks like Laminitis before we went away.

I suspected that she had had it before by her feet (was confirmed by the farrier) and have been very, very careful with her feeding and access to grass all summer.

My horses live out 24/7 so it can be hard to restrict her. But, I do have a tiny paddock that I call the starvation paddock.

I put her and my old boy on there and he cleared all the grass for her and she was left with almost bare mud.

When the weather went very dry the ground went very hard.

But she was ok. 2 Days before we went away I went up to do my normal daily stuff and found her stiff as a board and not willing to walk around.

She was not in the typical stance (legs out in front of her) but standing normally and only doing the stiff legs out in front of her as she walked.

I rang the vet and he came out and said yes it was Laminitis. Prescribed some pain killers and obviously advised to get her off the field.

I had a mad ring around and found a friend to put her in a stable. She was on straw as she didn't use shavings.

The bugger ate her bed so my friend was damping it down with Jays fluid to stop her eating it!! (naughty pony)

As soon as we were back I put her on shavings and we saw a huge improvement.

I started to drop her bute and all has been going well until yesterday, when I arrived to a stiff pony once again!!!!!!!!! grrrrrrr!!!

I gave her some Bute again and she is fine this morning.

However, my friend needs her stables back now as she is bringing in her horses and I only have fields!!

WHAT THE HELL DO I DO???????????????????

I don't want her on Bute all the time as it is a lot for a 11.2hh pony plus it will knacker her liver.

I am wondering if it is something else!!!!?????????

My first thought was Cushings but the vet thought that it was just Laminitis. Any she doesn't look typical Cushings.

She has not been on any grass now for 3 weeks, she drinks loads of water, had an inch long summer coat that I had to have clipped and now the laminitis!!!

Sorry for it being so long but I thought it best to state the whole story.

Any help and advice would be appreciated!
 

ClareMc

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I had a similar problem with my laminitic pony. Laminitis cleared up but very hobbly and stiff.

Does you pony have shoes? because Striders pedal bone had rotated he was getting very sore in his soles. He has had front shoes on since last attack and this has solved that problem.

Hope this helps. Good luck I know how hard it is to keep them on starvation. Especially wily ponies who can escape from anywhere.
 

piebaldsparkle

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Hope I'm wrong, but I thought that a long coat and drinking loads were both signs of cushings. Cushings would also make her more pron to lami too wouldn't it. I would get the vet back I think as would need a blood test to confirm/rule out I believe (might be wrong). If you have no choice but turn pony back on patch, I would make sure it was grazed right down, then cover remaining grass with shavings.
 

Mooch

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When I found her so stiff I had the farrier out straight away.

She had front shoes put on to raise her heels and give her a better circumference area.

When she went into the stable I also gave her front legs full frog supports.

On the Bute she is 100%, but it is a soon as you take her off it that we are having problems!!
 

Mooch

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Totally what I thought!!

Especially in the early part of Cushings when your just not sure.

In her deffence she is a Shetland X Welsh so her coat would naturally remain longer.

There are no curls or waves to it tho (I know that can happen later on with Cushings)

Vet just didn't think it was Cushings but a blood test would be needed.
 

Happytohack

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From what you say, your pony could well have Cushings. I have an Icelandic who was diagnosed with Cushings in Feb of 2005. I, like you, thought the long coat and constant need to clip it were just because he had an Icelandic coat! He tested positive to blood tests. If you do have your pony tested, the tests are not always accurate I am afraid. I am also afraid that a pony that is prone to laminitis does need constant access to a stable with a deep shavings bed on it. We are coming up to the autumn, which is another high risk time for lamintis and then the frosty grass in the winter is even more important to avoid - my chap came down with a terrible bout of laminitis in January this year, he came in from the field one afternoon a little pottery and by the next morning was very lame. He has special stick on heart bar shoes to support his heels and is now on Pergolide for his Cushings. With careful management, he is bute-free and is doing very well - but he cannot be out 24/7 and in the winter, he will probably have to stay in quite a bit. I am sorry to paint such a grim picture, but a laminitis-prone pony is high-maintenance and without a stable, I think you are going to struggle. Good luck!
 

Mooch

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I am going to get her tested as I would like to know. I also understand that a blood test are not accurate but it might give me a better clue as to how to handle her.

She did go through all of last winter with no problems what so ever.

I really don't want to have to part with her as you can't put a price on safety for your kids but I simply do not have access to stables, so it might be my only choice.
frown.gif
 

piebaldsparkle

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If you can't have a stable, what about a mobile field shelter (if it's a planning issue). Thats how my friend managed her pony in the winter, she just put rails across the entrance to shut him in when needed.
 

threeponies

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Just wanted to add remember that very short grass produces more fructans because its stressed. I hope you find a solution to your problems.
 

brighteyes

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Sounds like cushings to me.
Anyway, it looks like you have the management mostly worked out - have you tried a grazing muzzle? Shires do an ace one for about £13 and they really struggle to get much at all. It keeps them moving about, they can go out in the herd and I think it's important to keep a depressed pony happy in its head if at all possible.

I'd also be tempted to try herbs and/or homeopathic remedies. You won't do any harm and it might just help.

Electric fencing and a small shed wouldn't be too difficult to sort - sounds like she's worth it to you to keep her if you can.

There are some super-helpful knowledgeable folks post on this forum and already I can see plenty of sensible advice!
 

twinkle

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i would also make a small field with electric fencing and put shaving on it i think if you soak your hay that would help a little i no a horse down my stables that got a mild case of lami and farrier said exercise as much as you can but she wasnt stiff like your little pony hope everything turns out well good luck
 

Mooch

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I do actually have a stable on the estate I rent my land from, but I only have permisson to put all my stuff in it and not to have a horse or pony in it.

There are no horses other than mine on the estate now, so all the other stables are full of everything from sandstone to machinery and fencing.

They won't be back in the office until tomorrow, but I am going to ask.

As for a field shelter, I just dont have the pennies right now, after paying for our trip to USA and to pay off my ex in my divorce.

If I sold my Warmblood I could get one!
 

Mooch

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Thank you.

The fact that she hasn't come right obviously worries me.

I am going to as the vet to blood test her as I would prefer to know what we are dealing with and I am aware that there is so much more you can do for a pony with Cushings now a days to keep them happy and comfortable.

She does have a grazing muzzle but bless her she cant eat at all with it on (not much going on in the brain, bless her) Instead she spends her time trying to get it off!!

She has been having Laminaze for 3 weeks now as that was recommended to me by a lady that breeds Shetlands and she uses it on hers if they have any problems with great success.

I have also been out and bought some Nobute this afternoon but I will check with the vet if it can be given while she is still on Bute.

As per one of my other replies, she has the trailer and a very small area of mud to walk about on if she so wishes. There is also another pony in the field to talk to her but she didn't seem too impressed with her. (she likes her boys!!!)

Thanks again to everyone for some help.

Just nice to know that I am trying as much as possible for her under the circumstances.
 

Mooch

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I had started to exercise her again as I was worried about her being in the stable 24/7.

But it was only 10 mins twice a day at walk around a soft field.

I was hoping to increase it but as I dropped the Bute she went stiff again. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

She is very comfortable again tonight and hopefully when I am armed with the blood test results I will have a better idea with what we are dealing with.
frown.gif
 

Wooleysmum

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Mine had it bad in 2004, not since, lost loads of weight as wears the fantastic best friend grazing muzle, cannot recommend it enough. He was a fattie out on the grass day and night, now is muzzled most of the time, on longish grass, fed HI fi Lite and safe and Sound. Seems to work. Will have no muzzle Nov to March, at present has three hours no muzzle
 

Mooch

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I haven't heard of the best friend muzzle. Have you got a link to it or could you pmthe details if we are not allowed to do it on here?

I think my main worry is that something else is going on like Cushings and hence that is causing the Lami and not the grass as she has been off grass for 3 weeks now.
 

TGM

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I would definitely ask for the pony to be tested for Cushings - the laminitis, long coat and excess drinking sound typical. Vets are not always good at picking up the signs - my father's horse developed what I thought were Cushing's symptoms, but vet didn't think he had it. I insisted that he was tested and the results were very, very positive for Cushings (definitely NOT a borderline case!).
 

Thistle

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It may be worth trying chaste berries for the cushings (is she has it) if you are not insured for vets fees. They are £8 a tub from Dodson and Horrell.

Also any high magnesium supplement, even good old cheap epsom salts will help.
 

brighteyes

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Just wondering - is she stiff or pottery. Mine's a bit the same (stiff when I lower the Danilon) and think it could also be arthritis on top of everything else. Mine's 26 BTW, but recently in very fit condition. Also am very impressed with your efforts and level of care. Thought I was a bit of an odd bod, the lengths I go to!
 

PeterNatt

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Laminitis can be caused by several different things or a combination of one or more of them. Fructans in the grass causing hind gut overload, insulin intolerance, Emerging Encystead Red Worms, Cushings Disease, Medical Shock, Hard Ground or even a sudden change in environment.

Laminitis should be considered a medical emergency and a vet called in immediately. A horse going slightly pottery on one or more feet is a sign of the onset of Laminitis. A horse with Cushings will normally demonstrate an elevated digital pulse and a horse with a history of Laminitis should have it's digital pulse checked twice daily.

As soon as Laminitis is suspected the horse should be brought in to a thick bed of woodchips and only be fed a small amount of well soaked hay (2 hours to remove nutrition) every 4 hours day and night. The aim being to reduce it's body weight or keep it's body weight down.

Rubber foot supports may be fitted using bandages and duct tape to relieve the pain and assist in preventing rotation of the pedal bone.

The horse should be x rayed for rotation of the pedal bone and blood tested to check for any emerging encysted red worms (which do not show up on an x ray).

Medication may include Bute, Findodyne if in severe pain, acp to dilate blood vessels and Pericatin if Cushings is suspected.

A sign of cushings will be a build up of fatty areas above or below the eyes or a curly coat or retention of coat.

Once the clinical signs of Laminitis have disapeared then if the x rays show rotation of the pedal bone the horse will require remedial shoeing and this is best done with close co-operation of the vet and farrier using the latest x rays.

One of the recognised expert on Laminitis is Robert Eustace of the Laminitis Trust.

Good luck.
 

MagicMelon

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Id get a second vet in to give his opinion.

Sorry am in a hurry but thought Id say that bute wise - you can put the pony onto one of the bute free liquids like Bute Free etc. I think Equine America do something. Be healthier than keeping her on bute like you say.
 

hoofsculpture

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hi CLARE mc. she is not 100% on bute,she gets worse but cant feel it. she dose,nt need her heels raised,that will make her pedal bone point down at the toe,[rotate] ,you must remove her shoes gently,if she has heels flatten them alittle to ust above sole[dont touch sole] this is provided the frog will allow this without much or any trimming.check white line for stretching etc. if stretched trim toe back to w line at an upward angle. keep outer part of hoof wall off the ground. make sure everything else is flat. press sole to check for thin sole. stop bute. then observe a happy pony. dont doubt this
 
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