Laminitis in Nov again!!!!

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louise1967

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Whats going on???? Our little 12hh Welsh Sec A has got laminitis again even though he has lived in a starvation paddock for 2 yrs, after getting laminitis 2 yrs ago at this same time of yr, then having it for nearly a year, I was 6 weeks off of not having a vet out for a year and now this. He only has hay and a handfull of happyhoof, and goes out into his staravtion paddock with one other pony, the only thing I can think of that caused it, was I rested the paddock for 3 days as it was very wet & muddy out there, then let him out for 6 hrs and now this. I couldnt have been more carefull, anyone have any advise?
 
Oh no
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Is he shoeless and have you wormed him recently? I only ask because there was an interesting thread about wormers and lami on here yesterday.

Hope he gets better soon.
 
Worming can cause an imbalance of the gut which can affect lami prone horses/ponies.
Also, the weather has been quite mild. Our grass is still growing and all mine are holding their weight so it is very likely it could be your starvation paddock.
Do you soak your hay? If not, I would althoughI expect your pony will be on box rest now.
Also often late laminitis can suggest Cushings. How old is your pony?
 
Have you had any blood work done by the vets?
At this time of year if the grass gets damaged e.g. by overeating/bad weather the carbohydrate level can rocket and if he's particularly sensitive to these carbs it might cause the laminitis due to higher fermentation rate in the gut by the bacteria -produce endotoxins, cause vasoconstriction = laminitis etc
 
I'd put my money on it being the wormer. The toxins in the wormer can tip sensitive horses/ponies over the edge into a full blown lami attack. Really sorry to hear though, it must be so frustrating for you. Hope he feels better soon..
 
There is one wormer chemical group being related to bringing on a laminitic attack, i think it affects glucose metabolism.
 
thats interesting can u pm me the wormer group please? we also have one that has got lammi now after not having it for a few years little turn out but was wormed before it started!!
 
Thanks for all your comments. He does have shoes on his front feet and those ones the lami feet. He had lami for a yr up untill last Xmas, he was on the plastic expensive shoes for the first 6 months of this year, but then because he was sound we changed back to normal shoes with no toe clips, his hay hasnt changed, his starvation paddock was rested for 3 days as it was wet & muddy so its most prob that that has caused the relapse, the wormer im not sure i think it was equest. I havent called the vet, he had all the cushings tests, xrays, bloods lots of times before and all came back ok, plus my insurance has excluded lami now, so I have to pay, so am trying to do this on my own, I am having him try heart bar shoes next week, if that doesnt work im going back to the plastic ones, he is 17 yrs old.
 
I'll bet good money he's got Cushing's induced laminitis and all the usual treatment in the world won't help
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You need to think about getting him on Pergolide if there seems to be no rhyme nor reason as to why he should have it.

Late autumn onset laminitis in aged ponies on 'starvation' diets is more than likely due to a hormonal problem - and Cushing's is usually ther culprit.
 
There has been a HUGE number of horses/ponies/donkeys getting lami over the last month, it may just be down to the weather and grass, even if on a starvation paddock. I have one that went down with lami three weeks ago.
 
i was thinking cushings aswell to be honest! I have just had my horse dioagnotised with cusings and i only found out because she came down with lammi witch she has never had before she is due for worming with equitape will this make her lammi that she has at the moment any worse?
 
Hi OP. when you say you rested the paddock, do you mean that he was off grass and in for three days?

When I introduce Henry to grass, I have to do it very gradually, as it seems to be a metabolic shock if I just turn him out on it. I literally have to start with minutes, then an hour and so on.

I know that some wormers do affect laminitics, but I would have thought that an effect would be seen in a much shorter time than a week.
 
What people tend to miss is that laminitis is very common in autumn months due to the growth spurt in grass around september. there are many many horses that have lami through october/nov due to the grass

Given climate change and all that it is very possible that this has spilled over into October, hence the november lami.

the fructans in the grass are still very high further to this autumn growth. Another danger factor is frost, which seals the fructains in and can cause a major problem if ponys are turned out to eat frosted grass. If frosty at this time of year better to leave them in until melted.

there is a really good book on 'Founder' which is an american book I think and it has a red cover, cannot remember the name of it but it is amazing to help PREVENT laminitis, and treat it if it occurs but the long shot is that it can be prevented and managed.
 
One of mine had the test for Cushings which came back negative, however I finally managed to persuade the vet to prescribe pergoldie for her anyway and it made a huge difference to her. If you suspect Cushings it's well worth seeing if your vet will prescribe a month's worth of pergolide to see if it helps.
 
Which Cushings tests did he have? The ACTH one is the safest but when my mare had that her level came back as 3 (Cushings diagnosis is >50) despite having every symptom of Cushings.
 
In autumn months the ACTH is higher in normal horses anyway so PPID is normally diagnosed as 100> pg/ml so you have to becareful when you have the tests. Ge the insulin and cortisol done aswell. Can't give an accurate diagnosis from an ACTH result on it's own.
If still normal he may have a problam with his free circualting serotonin (too high) as this can be one of the big causes of laminitis. There's a feed product called LaminTec 5-HT which I've tried on mine, helps control blood serotonin levels and decrease the risk of laminitis. It's good for Cushing's and normal horses. Might be worth trying it out. Mine was quite prone to laminitis, he kept getting bouts of it with no obvious causes, all cushing's tests negative but he's been on this for 3 months now and he seems alot better, feet are all the same temp and he's not had laminitis since! Go on the companies website (www.pegasusdiagnostics.com).
 
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I think its the 13 week wormers as they are in the system for longer. Pramox/Equest? Moxidectin is the drug.

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Just another reason I NEVER use these!
 
not sure if you will pick this up now sorry only just found your post, I too had a pony (shetland) who had been on a starvy paddock for 4 years, he regularly got laminitus at this time of year, and he too had tested negative for cushings, the only symptoms he eventually got were sweating when he grew his winter coat (he did shed his coat every summer) and he drank loads, and pee'd loads. eventually after 5-6 boats of laminitus for no reason we tried pergolide. unfortunately it was too late for him and we lost him this year due to repeated laminitus and both sunk and rotated pedal bones. ask you vet to check again, we tested golly for insulin resistance in the end as it was the only test that showed a problem. best of luck. I know exactly how frusted and demoralised you must be feeling. Golly did well with Imprint shoes in the end and they did seem to help lots. the best thing you have on your side is that your chap is little and hopefully lightweight.
 
Reading this with interest after our mare got laminitis this summer (little monkey kept jumping out of the field).

I'd never heard of this re: wormers so what do you worm with to avoid risk?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Reading this with interest after our mare got laminitis this summer (little monkey kept jumping out of the field).

I'd never heard of this re: wormers so what do you worm with to avoid risk?

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Do eggs counts and only worm if necessary not as a matter of course or try a herbal wormer, such as Worm Foe by Silver Lining Herbs.

The book on Founder with a red cover as mentioned in another post is most probably 'Founder - Prevention & Cure the Natural Way' by Jaime Jackson (one of the originators of the modern barefoot movement). It's an excellent book available on amazon. I'd highly recommend it, and not just for people who currently have founder prone horses but to everyone.
 
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