Laminitis in retired mare

[Wagtail]

I am so gutted. My 18 year old Cushings (retired through injury) mare has come down with laminitis again. She had it mildly before Christmas when Cushings was diagnosed and has since been on prascend. She has been absolutely fine going out the odd day on the grass and the occasional overnight. I put her out with my gelding two days ago and they have had two days and nights out on the most grazed and least lush paddock. All other horses are in as none of the liveries want them out more than a few hours a day. I wanted to cut my work load and also it has been so nice and my horses love being out 24/7.

But anyway, looks like she will have to go on box rest (which means my boy will have to come in at night too ) or alternatively in a tiny pen in the field. But once I get her over this, I was wondering whether this means she can never go on grass again, and is her life confined to a small bare paddock, or have people managed their horses being in during the day and out at night on the grass? Never having ponies, I am unused to managing this terrible condition. She will hate being the only one in while all the others are out. It just doesn't seem fair. I want to give her a happy retirement, but what kind of existence is it for a horse? She is otherwise so full of the joys of life. She is my horse of a lifetime and owes me nothing.

 

[touchstone]

Sorry to hear this Wagtail, it is such a frustrating disease.

What is her condition like at the moment? I find mine can tolerate grass much better when slim, the slightest rise in condition and I start getting raised digital pulses when on grass.

The way I make sure that mine gets turnout is to fence a track around the paddock with electric fencing, then they still get movement and contact with other horses that are in the middle section. (The others can also eat the track down first.) I currently have overgrazed her paddock with sheep, so she has a large area to wander in. I keep her out 24/7 and have done since she first had mild laminitis about twelve years ago.

There is also the problem that short stressed grass is high in sugars, so even though they are consuming less, it is still high sugar wise, some people find muzzling and turning out on longer grass is better.

It might be worth looking at the prascend dosage, perhaps it needs adjusting?

I hope she recovers soon, I know how traumatic it can all be.

 

[be positive]

I had laminitis once with my big retired horse, it followed a wet spring when I had fertilised the fields in the autumn the nitrogen levels must have just gone sky high once it got warmer. He did get over it and lived out 24/7 again until I lost him but I now do not fertilise just rest and let the grass grow.

A track would be ideal, plenty of exercise with less grass and if you could set one and keep it as unimproved as possible she should be able to go out, I dont think it fair that they are never allowed out, its ok if in work but in retirement they should be able to live as naturally as possible not stuck inside all summer.

I am lucky with the cushings pony here, he is not laminitic and goes out 24/7 but I do change his dosage at times, if he starts to look a bit down I up it for a few days, it may not be right without testing but I know him and there is no point in testing every time, my vet is happy with this as it is keeping an old pony well and he is 33 now, still in very light work but should really be doing more as he is very bright at the moment.
I found it took about a year to get his dose right and his condition stable so dont despair with your mare she is still adjusting and will improve further once her system is better balanced.

 

[Wagtail]

Sorry to hear this Wagtail, it is such a frustrating disease.

What is her condition like at the moment? I find mine can tolerate grass much better when slim, the slightest rise in condition and I start getting raised digital pulses when on grass.

The way I make sure that mine gets turnout is to fence a track around the paddock with electric fencing, then they still get movement and contact with other horses that are in the middle section. (The others can also eat the track down first.) I currently have overgrazed her paddock with sheep, so she has a large area to wander in. I keep her out 24/7 and have done since she first had mild laminitis about twelve years ago.

There is also the problem that short stressed grass is high in sugars, so even though they are consuming less, it is still high sugar wise, some people find muzzling and turning out on longer grass is better.

It might be worth looking at the prascend dosage, perhaps it needs adjusting?

I hope she recovers soon, I know how traumatic it can all be.

Her condition is a 3 out of 5. She lost around 75 kilos after her first bout of lami and I put her on a diet, though the recent grazing has added a few kilos back on.

I've caught it really early. She isn't lame, even in trot but has a digital pulse in the same foot as she had it last time. She is also breathing heavily, which is a sign with her. I brought her in but she went mad racing around her stable and calling. So I have built her a small enclosure inside her usual paddock. I am thinking I need to work out exactly how much grass she can tolerate. I thought that once she has stabilized, I will keep her in there during the day and let her out overnight. Once the paddock is grazed well down, I may bulid a track system like you say. If she ends up constantly on box rest, it is no life for a horse and I would PTS. But hopefully I will be able to manage her with her having some decent quality of life.

 

[Wagtail]

I had laminitis once with my big retired horse, it followed a wet spring when I had fertilised the fields in the autumn the nitrogen levels must have just gone sky high once it got warmer. He did get over it and lived out 24/7 again until I lost him but I now do not fertilise just rest and let the grass grow.

A track would be ideal, plenty of exercise with less grass and if you could set one and keep it as unimproved as possible she should be able to go out, I dont think it fair that they are never allowed out, its ok if in work but in retirement they should be able to live as naturally as possible not stuck inside all summer.

I am lucky with the cushings pony here, he is not laminitic and goes out 24/7 but I do change his dosage at times, if he starts to look a bit down I up it for a few days, it may not be right without testing but I know him and there is no point in testing every time, my vet is happy with this as it is keeping an old pony well and he is 33 now, still in very light work but should really be doing more as he is very bright at the moment.
I found it took about a year to get his dose right and his condition stable so dont despair with your mare she is still adjusting and will improve further once her system is better balanced.

Thanks. It is good to know that it can be managed without always resorting to box rest. I am determined that she has as natural a life as possible, bless her.

 

[Goldenstar]

This is what happened to my best ever horse like yours we were restricting turnout as much as possible when she got her last bout of lami despite every precaution I took the desision to PTS I felt it had reached the point where I could not keep her quality of life as I wanted it.

 

[Wagtail]

This is what happened to my best ever horse like yours we were restricting turnout as much as possible when she got her last bout of lami despite every precaution I took the desision to PTS I felt it had reached the point where I could not keep her quality of life as I wanted it.

That is so terrible and so not fair. You did the right thing by her though. Poor girl. I find it so upsetting that I could face a similar decision with my mare. I am just hoping that I can get her stabilized and that I can work out how much she can tolerate so that she can still enjoy her retirement.

 

[Wagtail]

Digital pulse was gone last night and so I let her out in the field. I have brought her back into her pen this morning and the pulses are still gone. So it looks as though she can cope all right with grass at night, so long as she's in her pen during the day. If I can maintain her like this, then I'll be happy.

 

[LauraWheeler]

Glad to read she is doing better today I hope she copes with the night turnout and continues to enjoy the rest of her retirement. xx

 

[tallyho!]

What about a muzzle Wagtail? Could she not wear one for the few hours she is out mooching? Think track is a great idea, the barer the better just put hay out along it. It's such a worry. Hugs xx

 

[Wagtail]

Glad to read she is doing better today I hope she copes with the night turnout and continues to enjoy the rest of her retirement. xx

Thanks, Laura.

What about a muzzle Wagtail? Could she not wear one for the few hours she is out mooching? Think track is a great idea, the barer the better just put hay out along it. It's such a worry. Hugs xx

I know muzzles are invaluable to many horse owners, but personally, I really can't bear the thought of muzzling her. She is such an itchy horse and much of her time out is spent mutual grooming. My sister has a lami pony that she has to keep up on the yard whilst her other horses are out grazing. (He has full run of the yard and barn, but is on his own). She has a muzzle that she puts on him so he can go and be with the others, but now, when she goes to let him out, with the muzzle in her hand, he runs away. Would rather stay up on the yard alone than wear it. I know many horses do get used to them though. Once the grass is more bare, I am definitely going to do a track system for my girl.

 

[Hedwards]

My mare connie is retired, mainly due to having laminitis in one foot a couple of years ago. Thankfully, her recent cushings test came back with a 'score' of 19, however I still treat her as if she has lami. currently she's turned out on a small paddock (with a companion) and muzzled over night, and then comes in during the day to a small net. So far so good - I know you dont like the idea of a muzzle, but I have to say, Connie's quality of life is massively improved by hers, simply because she can spend so much more time out in the field...

 

[Littlelegs]

My friend has one that despite being slim & muscular from work spends the day in a muzzle & then in over night for ad lib hay as 24/7 with a muzzle on he loses too much weight. He has maybe an hour without a muzzle tops but anymore, & he comes in with fat pads. Probably not really fat pads as they go down overnight. She did try a small paddock, but he prefers company. He does have a very low tolerance to sugar though, the longer stuff through a muzzle he's fine with, but a day without would bring on an attack.

 

[Montyforever]

Sorry to hear your mares gone down with it again I know how you feel, I feel terrible only letting my mare out for 2/3 hours a day but she just can't stay out any longer as she won't accept a muzzle, jumps out of pens and overnight is too long for her because she comes in with pulses and very footy its got to be one of the worst things they can get, I need to get her tested for cushings soon because its just not right even for a pony that's had lami before to be this sensitive to grass
Have you thought about doing a woodchip area? I got a load free when the tree cutters were doing a big job in my area haven't managed to finish it yet as I'm waiting for the digger to dig the turf up but she will have a pen about 2 stable sizes in the field with enough fencing to keep a rhino in so my other mare can spend all day in the field and she can be out but not on the dangerous grass

 

[AshTay]

Am in a similar position myself! My old retired boy has started to get stiff and sore on his previously injured leg and vets advice is to keep him comfy on danilon and being out is better for him as he stiffens up when stood in.
Then yesterday I found him with a kick injury and raging pulses (grass or stress-induced I don't know, probably bit of both). I brought him in and the pulses subsided after a few hours so i'll see about putting him out in small paddock later today. But if he can't stay out 24/7 he'll be stiff and sore. If his grazing is restricted he'll get bolshy and break out (and be miserable).

But after subjecting him to 9 months boxrest followed by a year of solitary grazing (with friends over the fence, not totally alone) to get over his injury I promised he'd have a normal life from thereon with friends. But it's looking like I can't keep that promise. He's 24

 

[tallyho!]

Have any of you tried detoxing? Just as an aside because I found that when my boy had bouts of it in relatively quick succession, his system was sluggish and overloaded. Global herbs restore was good, but I found L94 from trinity fantastic. His wee became a lot clearer too. Cloudy wee is a sign that the liver & kidneys are struggling. Just a thought and you never know, it might help someone in a similar situation.

p.s. oh, and you have to detox diet too, soaked hay as forage. Small bit of unmollassed chaff & speedibeet to carry the liquid in for 10 days. No veg, carrots or anything...

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Bear in mind that a lot of horses that react with horror as you try put the muzzle on, once out in the field with it(and once used to it) just graze calmly and happily. Of course they arent keen on it going on, thats only natural, but it doesnt follow through to them all refusing to settle happily once out for the day in the field.

 

[Milanesa]

Hi wagtail, sorry to hear this. Your story is very similar to mine, your feelings on 'natural lifestyle' and non use of muzzles are exactly the same as me. I lost my dartmoor to lami/ems/cushings very recently. I just wanted to say I totally understand your thoughts and once my pony was too poorly to be out with her mates and enjoying life I made the decision. If you have caught it early you are doing the right thing by trying her out as to how many hours she can be at grass etc... Finding the balance is the best way and my pony was managed for. 8/9yrs like this on full turnout all winter with her friends and restricted in summer using a coral. Good luck x

 

[Wagtail]

Am in a similar position myself! My old retired boy has started to get stiff and sore on his previously injured leg and vets advice is to keep him comfy on danilon and being out is better for him as he stiffens up when stood in.
Then yesterday I found him with a kick injury and raging pulses (grass or stress-induced I don't know, probably bit of both). I brought him in and the pulses subsided after a few hours so i'll see about putting him out in small paddock later today. But if he can't stay out 24/7 he'll be stiff and sore. If his grazing is restricted he'll get bolshy and break out (and be miserable).

But after subjecting him to 9 months boxrest followed by a year of solitary grazing (with friends over the fence, not totally alone) to get over his injury I promised he'd have a normal life from thereon with friends. But it's looking like I can't keep that promise. He's 24

What a frustrating situation to be in. Such a shame we can't talk to them. My mare loves company but she's fine in her pen inside the main paddock. I feel sorry for her in there, but at least she gets out at night (hopefully). I guess there comes a time where you have to weigh up their quality of life though. My girl is only 18 and so I would really hope she can have a good few more years of life that is worth living. Has your boy been tested for Cushings?

 

[Wagtail]

Have any of you tried detoxing? Just as an aside because I found that when my boy had bouts of it in relatively quick succession, his system was sluggish and overloaded. Global herbs restore was good, but I found L94 from trinity fantastic. His wee became a lot clearer too. Cloudy wee is a sign that the liver & kidneys are struggling. Just a thought and you never know, it might help someone in a similar situation.

p.s. oh, and you have to detox diet too, soaked hay as forage. Small bit of unmollassed chaff & speedibeet to carry the liquid in for 10 days. No veg, carrots or anything...

I used Global herbs Restore with her before. But she's been great on her haylage and Pure Feeds Easy for the past 5 months. I think her recent bout was just due to too much grass at once.

 

[Wagtail]

Hi wagtail, sorry to hear this. Your story is very similar to mine, your feelings on 'natural lifestyle' and non use of muzzles are exactly the same as me. I lost my dartmoor to lami/ems/cushings very recently. I just wanted to say I totally understand your thoughts and once my pony was too poorly to be out with her mates and enjoying life I made the decision. If you have caught it early you are doing the right thing by trying her out as to how many hours she can be at grass etc... Finding the balance is the best way and my pony was managed for. 8/9yrs like this on full turnout all winter with her friends and restricted in summer using a coral. Good luck x

Sorry to hear you lost your girl. But good that she had a good quality of life with you for many years. I have resigned myself to the fact that my mare probably will not be one of those lucky horses that lives until their thirties. I would be very happy to get her to her mid twenties. It has just been one thing after another with her. Retiring horses is not as easy as it's cracked up to be, if they have health problems.

 

[charmeroo]

As she has cushings - have you tried her on pergolide (think that's how it's spelt!)? This would help the cushings and consequently the lami. Just a thought - might only be one tablet a day depending on her blood results.

 

[Milanesa]

Yes wagtail very true, my pony was mid twenties, for me it's quality not quantity of life (although mid twenties IMO is a fairly good innings as you say for a horse with medical problems). Sounds like you have her best interests at heart and I hope you find a plateau that works for both of you with regards to her grass intake. Sorry to hear you have had other problems with her too, sounds like you are a very good mummy looking after her through it all!! These things are sent to try us aren't they!

 

[Wagtail]

As she has cushings - have you tried her on pergolide (think that's how it's spelt!)? This would help the cushings and consequently the lami. Just a thought - might only be one tablet a day depending on her blood results.

Thanks, yes, she is on Prascend (which is the same drug as pergolide). I think this has stabilized her. But I probably need to get bloods done again to check the dosage is ok.

 

[AshTay]

What a frustrating situation to be in. Such a shame we can't talk to them. My mare loves company but she's fine in her pen inside the main paddock. I feel sorry for her in there, but at least she gets out at night (hopefully). I guess there comes a time where you have to weigh up their quality of life though. My girl is only 18 and so I would really hope she can have a good few more years of life that is worth living. Has your boy been tested for Cushings?

I went up earlier and pulses hadn't returned and he wasn't too stiff despite having been in since about 3.30 yesterday (probably because of all the drugs he's now got in him) so I've put him out in small paddock for a few hours. Will see how it goes.
I haven't had him tested because we've never previously had need to. He's never had full lami and the only other time he's been "footie", the vet wasn't sure and we only restricted to err on the side of caution and his farrier didn't think it was lami-related either. If his pulses come back after a few hours on the grass today then I'll get vet out and ask about Cushings but if not, will see how restriction goes for a few days and increase turnout and try to figure out if we can find a balance. I'm unsure as to how much of a role the injury played (though will play it safe anyway and be careful with grass) - it's probably the worst trauma injury i've known him to have (though still fairly minor and looks loads better already).

I hope you find a solution for your girl. And agree that quality over quantity is important. She's lucky to have you. xx

 

[brighteyes]

You know what? You can fight Cushing's-induced laminitis, but you'll never win. It's simply a case of when to throw the towel in. It's not straightforward and the enemy is hidden and silent. Meanwhile it wreaks havoc with your horse's internal workings, causes a whole load of pain and misery and is a nasty, cruel and relentless disease.

It doesn't always cause laminitis, but when it does...

I wish you luck with this - poor girl. Prascend merely delays the inevitable, and costs a huge amount.

 

[Wagtail]

You know what? You can fight Cushing's-induced laminitis, but you'll never win. It's simply a case of when to throw the towel in. It's not straightforward and the enemy is hidden and silent. Meanwhile it wreaks havoc with your horse's internal workings, causes a whole load of pain and misery and is a nasty, cruel and relentless disease.

It doesn't always cause laminitis, but when it does...

I wish you luck with this - poor girl. Prascend merely delays the inevitable, and costs a huge amount.

Don't worry. This mare means the world to me. I won't let her suffer. The lami she had over Christmas was very mild and she was in for only a couple of weeks. Since I changed her diet I have checked her pulses every day and they have been absent until yesterday. As soon as I felt it I restricted her to her pen and they were gone by evening, and still gone now. But I know it will not be straight forward, and if it gets to the point of her being in repeatedly (other than in her pen during the day), or any prolonged box rest, then I will let her go.

ETA the prascend is £1 per pill. She is on one a day at present and so if it goes up to 3 a day it will be £90 a month. At the moment I just think it costs less than shoeing a horse. But obviously, if the dose goes up, then the cost mounts up. But that in itself would not put me off persevering with it, so long as it was working.

 

[Buds_mum]

Wagtail I think you replied to my post about Silver, he was pts on Friday due to laminitis. At the end of the day it came down to his quality of life, he wouldn't be penned, he hated standing in even with company and plus arthritis made this impossible and muzzles were a no no. the only way he was happy and free of stress was to be out with his herd, even on a poor field, but this left him crippled, oh and the added bonus that the lami caused abscesses which then cause lami in the counter foot. I really don't think there could be more stacked against him he went on a good day, thinking he was being turned out.
I so hope your mares temperament will allow you to manage her, it was a horrible choice I made which by above replies people have gone the same route as me. I swear laminitis is like a cancer, its horrendous
Good luck with her, at least you have a way to maintain and control it whilst her quality of life remains. Of the time comes when her quality of life is comporomised then you sound like the path is clear. I would not hesitate to make the same descion again if the quality of life was not there. Whilst it exists then I would battle on, but we know our neddies xxx

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks, BM. So sorry about your boy, but you made the right decision for him and thankfully you know it. My girl is very easy to manage in comparison as she is good to pen and to box rest so long as she has horses around her. But there is a limit to how much is fair to inflct on a horse unless there is a promising prognosis.

 

[touchstone]

Thanks, BM. So sorry about your boy, but you made the right decision for him and thankfully you know it. My girl is very easy to manage in comparison as she is good to pen and to box rest so long as she has horses around her. But there is a limit to how much is fair to inflct on a horse unless there is a promising prognosis.

I think that is a sensible outlook Wagtail, my friends cob was treated with pergolide and managed to tolerate a fair bit of grass afer several laminitis bouts, hopefully once you find a balance your mare will cope too. My friend lost her cob a few years later due to suspected tumours, but he never got laminitis again in that time and so the pergolide was worth it for him. I've also seen owners struggle on with in pain horses that as you say have little quality of life and it is so unfair on the animals. I agree that it should be quality over quantity anytime.