Laminitis Misdiagnosis

[Spacejet]

My 11 yr old Connie gelding has been abit miserable lately and not wanting to go forward in the arena, but seems happy enough hacking.
Had bodyworker out who said there's nothing physically wrong with him from what she can see, he might be abit uncomfortable in his gut so he's had two rounds of peptonil from Trinity Consultants as well as a liver detox and feed hay in the field.
He's perked up hacking, but still doesn't want to go in the school, so decide to call vet to get bloods done and have another check over.
Instantly sees he's barefoot and 'very fat' (you can feel the last half of his ribs but he holds on to fat packs on his shoulder and crest). Watched him walk said he was shuffling and he's sore, diagnosed with Lami there and then and told to starve him all day and only 4 kilos of a hay at night. No hard feed not even balancer!
Few days later EP came to do his feet, said there's absolutely nothing wrong with his feet he will happily trot over stony tracks he does not Lami, this was then backed up the following day by body worker who said again there's nothing wrong with him, he's not very fat he could lose a few kilos before spring but she's not worried about him.
Bloods also came back fine but vets still adamant he's got Lami.
I haven't had my bill yet, but I'm honestly so frustrated at the vets diagnosis. Lami is not something you want to here and sends panic through me. I'm also distraught that the advice was to starve my horse that id just worked hard on clearing his gut up for two months, that's one hell of a way to give my horse ulcers (probably what they're wanting anyway) ..
Can I disbute my vet bill on the basis of incorrect diagnosis? I've never done this before but I feel like they've taken one quick look and immediately said Lami when actually, we think he's just school sour as he's fine on hacks!

 

[Tiddlypom]

How many times did the vet see the horse?

What were the blood samples tested for?

 

[AmyMay]

Did they xray the feet?

 

[ycbm]

Get a second opinion from a barefoot friendly vet.

The fat pads sound dangerous to me, as does being able to feel only half his ribs when the spring grass is about to erupt.


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[Spacejet]

How many times did the vet see the horse?

What were the blood samples tested for?

Vet has seen him once.
Blood tests were just to check nothing else was going on

 

[Spacejet]

Did they xray the feet?

Did not x-ray just told me to starve

 

[ycbm]

Did not x-ray just told me to starve

Get a new vet, that advice is twenty five years out of date.

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[Spacejet]

Get a second opinion from a barefoot friendly vet.

The fat pads sound dangerous to me, as does being able to feel only half his ribs when the spring grass is about to erupt.


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He had fat pads coming out of winter last year when you could feel all his ribs and vet told me he was lean - he was only cut a few years ago and seems to hold on to them which I've been told is normal for stallions. I'm working on getting him to drop a few more kilos before spring through exercise and controlled ad lib hay (small holed nets so he has constant forage but not as much), also cut his hardfeed right down. Will also clip him abit as he's super hairy and unrugged

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

They dont have to be overweight to have lammi - the holding onto fat pads are a huge indicator IMO. What is a 'bodyworker' and what is their qualification to diagnose? Not being funny but I truly do not have a clue what a bodyworker is and how they are accepted over and above a vet for diagnosis?

it would be a good call to remove hard feed but certainly not to starve! My lammi prone donkey is kept on 6kgs of hay spread over morning and evening feed per day to avoid any outbreak of lammi - so just giving 4kg per day to a connie is very worrying to say the least.

I am not entirely sure I have faith in either your vet or your 'bodyworker' I would get another equine vet's opinion frankly.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I have a very big built horse who was late cut and he does not hold any fat pads at all - that is just nonsense

 

[TheMule]

So you're ignoring the trained professional who has a degree and whose job it is to diagnose veterinary conditions in favor of a foot trimmer and a 'body worker'
Yikes.

 

[ycbm]

I have a very big built horse who was late cut and he does not hold any fat pads at all - that is just nonsense

I have a horse who was used as a stallion and has seven offspring. He was gelded after I bought him. He has never had any fat pads.

 

[ycbm]

Any horse which has any ribs that you can't get your fingers to has to be a big red warning for laminitis. It's one thing not being able to see them,another not being able to feel them easily, and a whole different ball park not to be able to feel them at all.

If your horse has nice thick soles, it's entirely possible for him to walk over stones without feeling them while also having laminitis.

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[ester]

See to me if you describe has miserable and not going forwards in the school the people that are telling you there is nothing wrong might not be being anymore helpful.

Pulses?

I don't anticipate you can dispute the diagnosis without a second opinion vet saying it si wrong.

What were bloods taken for?

 

[windand rain]

Even if he has got laminitis I would ignore a vet who advised you to starve it what a horrendous way to treat a very sick animal if that is the diagnosis. Sack the vet and get one who knows how to properly treat a laminitic and even better one who knows how to treat a laminitic with ulcers, In the mean time restrict all movement give a very deep bed to the door of the stable give soaked hay and treat as if laminitic until you get a better qualified vets advice

 

[be positive]

School sour is not a diagnosis and for the average horse doing a few hours a week with a competent rider and well fitting tack it is unlikely they will be bored, fed up or otherwise unhappy working in a school, your vet may not be correct but I am not sure a bodyworker, whatever that is, or an EP is better qualified to diagnose than the vet who saw a horse with fat pads, reluctance to stride out and suggested laminitis likely, their 'treatment' leaves a lot to be desired but the diagnosis may well be correct.

 

[SusieT]

Why not get a second vet opinion? A Body worker who diagnoses gut trouble isn't someone I would be trusting and neither would I be spenigni money on 'liver detox' etc. etc. Get a good equine vet out for a look.

 

[Spacejet]

I feel slightly like I've just been attacked for questioning my vets diagnosis... Vets are only people and are sometimes wrong?!
So signs of Lami:
- lameness; we have no lameness
- pulses; we have zero pulses and no heat in feet
- pain with hoof testers; vet done this and had zero reaction
- hard crest; crest is very soft
- stumbling gait; he doesn't have a stumbling gait

This is a horse who is happy to go for hacks, walk trot on concrete, canter down tracks. Again, not a laminitis horse.
We've gone in the school all winter and we both find it dull, so yes I do think he's arena sour and he's more than happy to hack out.

I don't feel comfortable with my vets advise, I feel like they haven't actually listened to what I've been saying or spent the time actually watching him move. They've bascially told me to put shoes on and starve him.
I done a check too to see if it was pain related as she gave me bute, that made no difference to his behaviour
whatsoever.

All I was asking is if I could dispute this with the vet and if anyone has done this previously, I don't want to be shot down for seeking alternative views on my horse when I'm unsure about the vets verdict and my gut feeling has been confirmed by two other professionals.

FYI: I call her a bodyworker, she's a sports massage therapist with qualifications in nutrition, behaviour and saddle fitting.

 

[ycbm]

Change

Your

Vet

 

[ester]

And as advised previously you therefore need a second veterinary opinion if you feel the first was incorrect. You can't really dispute with you saying they are wrong.

 

[Spacejet]

Thank you, I'll register with another vets and request them to check him over before disputing.

 

[windand rain]

Good idea because even if laminitis is the diagnosis his advice is dreadful so although you might not get recompense you will at least find out what is wrong with your horse I wouldnt mention your previous vet until you have a diagnosis from the new one though

 

[Spacejet]

Good idea because even if laminitis is the diagnosis his advice is dreadful so although you might not get recompense you will at least find out what is wrong with your horse I wouldnt mention your previous vet until you have a diagnosis from the new one though

I actually couldn't believe the advice I was given, she even warned me that he's going to be grumpy and angry at me ... ? So many people just do what vets say though, I wonder how many poor horses are at the perils of that advice!

 

[windand rain]

Far too many yes vets are trained to care for animals but unless thye are specialist then usually know less than someone who has had years of caring for a laminitic or even done their own research into it. A very shallow guess at your boys problem would be soft tissue injury as these are often worse in schools due to soft surfaces and tight circles but I am not a vet nor have I seen his moving so it is only a guess from your description. Get a really good equine vet if you can preferably one with a lot of experience in movement and lameness issues

 

[splashgirl45]

if he has fat pads, have you considered a cushings test? cushings can cause lethargic behaviour ...i have never heard of starving a horse because of laminitis, yes dont feed anything with high sugar levels but they should have soaked hay and be trickle fed ll of the time. maybe a small net 4 times a day...agree get a second opinion from a good equine vet. good luck

 

[Goldenstar]

Two people are breaking the law here the bodyworker and the EP neither of whom can diagnose what’s wrong with a horse .
Get some low calorie straw chop like top chop zero and and triple net the four kilos of hay at night time .
Get the pony down to the vets and get it on a weigh-bridge you can’t argue with that if he’s too heavy he’s too heavy and thats the priority to deal with ulcers should a horse get them from a strict diet are easily fixed .
You have a limited numbers of weeks now to get your horses weight down with winter to help you after that diets get even harder work .
If the pony is rugged get the rugs off or get him down to ones with no padding in them .
What did the vet say about working the pony ?
However I would wonder why the pony is worse in the school that’s the second thing I would move on to worrying about and getting to the bottom of .
PS I also think you need a Cushing test, is that what the blood test was for ?

 

[Tiddlypom]

PPID (Cushing’s) in a winter case of suspected laminitis in a horse with fat pads would be high on the suspect list. Were the ACTH levels checked as part of the blood tests?

I have had a misdiagnosis of lami from a newly qualified vet. It was a genuine error though, it was early May and the practice were in the midst of a laminitis storm. In my mare’s case, it was a reaction to having her shoes removed after a period of shocking foot balance after being out on loan. My own, more experienced vet pronounced that it was not lami when she did the follow up visit a few days later and did x rays. The starving advice is old hat, but stabling, padding the feet up and getting on a deep bed is not.

I paid for the initial misdiagnosis call out, it was a genuine error with similar symptoms and did the horse no harm long term.

 

[fusspot]

Please don’t ignore the fat pads.I totally disagree with the starve your horse as can cause more harm than good.Regular,small,soaked haynets-minimum 4-6 hours-rinsing off the haynets before giving to wash off any sugars the net has been sitting in,in a small hole haynet,definetly not starving-a very old fashioned way of treating.Regarding the fat pads-my boy I thought looked well-could almost see his ribs but had fat pads at base of neck and over his hindquarters,literally when fully fit-had been to the regionals 3 days before-bang-Full blown Laminitis from nowhere-I was gobsmacked as always been very alert to it.I had him tested twice previously for Cushings and both times negative.Never heard of EMS,the blood test proved negative but my vet was insistent that the Lami was something more so pushed for the Glucose test which was sky high.I controlled by diet for 2 years and then went on to Metformin which again only works for a certain time.I lost my gorgeous boy a year ago-14 years old and first EMS diagnosed at 10years old-again he went down suddenly with Lami-the vet said I had him as light as I could possibly get him-could see rib outline but still had bad fat pads.Those can be an indicator.I own one and have another on Livery that were both cut late and neither have fat pads.Please change to a good vet,that is also up to date on more up to date ways of treating and a second opinion.

 

[scats]

OP, if he had low grade lami and you left him in for a few days, as per vets advice, then there’s a good chance that when someone came to do his feet a few days later, he may well have been sound then. That’s the difficulty with low grade laminitis, it can present in such strange ways and seemingly ‘disappear’ given a short time off grass.

I know a horse who was a bit footy off the grass, hugely overweight, massive crest but his main symptom was being a bit stuffy in work. Owner kept him in for 24 hours out of curiosity and he was like a different horse when he came out, but a return to grass and the symptoms returned.

Saying that, ditch your vet and get another on board. Starving an overweight horse with possibly laminitis is asking for serious trouble.

 

[Goldenstar]

You can’t treat a horse slim you have to get into calorie deficit and keep it there to get it slim .
Op does not say where her horse is during the day .
She does not say how big her pony is .
she does not say what advice she was given about exercise and bedding .
The vet has the advantage of having seeing the pony .
I am not sure why people are so sure the vet is wrong .