Laminitis now cushings.? Help! Only 10 years old...

warmbloodcrazy

warmbloodcrazy

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Hi all, I will try and cut this long story short but basically..

My mums 10 year old warmblood who we have had since he was a yearling got laminitis last summer.. he had enver had it before and although he was over weight he wasn't obese and had never had any problems like this previously. It was all a big shock! He was rushed to liphook as they suspected rotation and they found that he did have so had pads put on etc. He was tested for cushings and the metabolic condition. He tested negative for cushings and was put on Metphormin to stabilise the metabolic issue. We put him on a strict regime and got the excess weight off of him etc its been a long hard road and last week he had x rays of his front feet that show his left fore still isn't quite back in place from the rotation yet.

He is in ridden light exercise, but he is so lethargic now..before he was so spritely and forward going. Hes like a different horse now.. so quiet like an old grandad and we put it down the weight loss etc. He is off metphormin as the vet said he didnt need it anymore but they are now saying he is testing positive for cushings after we asked about him being so quiet and is borderline for needing medication and is having another blood test in 6 weeks. I'm now wondering if they mis diagnosed him at Liphook as he tested negative then and now he is apparently positive! I was just wondering if anyone else had had a similar situation? The horse is only 10 years old... we have heard horror stories of them not lasting long on the medication for cushings as i know he would need it for the rest of his life..

Has anyone got an experiences on it all they could share? W'eve worked so hard to do everything we can to get him better and are worried about his future now.


Thanks in advance everyone!
 
My boy is a bit older than yours but he came down with Lami just 4 weeks after I brought him, when he was 13yrs old in 2009. He tested negative for EMS and Cushings but he had 14 degrees rotation and took 6 months to fully recover. The vet re-tested 6 months later and they were negative again.

He was then fine until Jan 2011 - he had been off work since the November with a ruptured annular ligament. We took his shoes off in the January when it was clear he would need surgery on it and he was a bit footy. The vet re-tested EMS and Cushings and he was positive EMS so started Metformin.

Fast forward to November 2012 and he suddenly lost a lot of weight and had zero energy - I did a normal dressage lesson on him and he was dripping in sweat! Vet came out nad re-tested his bloods. They came back positive for PPID (Cishings) and Hepatitis.

He was given antibiotics, protexin and Hepatosyl Plus for his liver and Prascend for the PPID. No Metformin.

We re-tested his bloods every 4 weeks and the last test showed his liver was recovering well and his ACTH (PPID test) is now 33 (normal is >29 at this time of year). His highest was 45, but as it's not an exact science, they want to keep him on current medication levels and then retest in 3 months which im happy with,

He looks and feels amazing at the moment - we are back in work and due to go to our first show of the year in 2 weeks... he is very lean (looks like a racehorse) but id rather than than lami!
 
Ask for copies of the full blood reports for your boy. They will be a useful reference for the future, and you will be the person best placed to do quick comparisons of levels of ACTH to see whether things are improving or worsening. Much easier for owners to keep track of changes in bloods than for vets who are out and about so much, and who have so many more horses to account for.

I've literally just started my 16yo mare on pergolide. Technically she is still within the "normal" range for ACTH, but is very close to the upper limit, and so based on her hoof structure changes and on her increasing footiness the last couple of summers, my vet agreed to us doing a 6 month pergolide trial with her. So do be clear that if your horse has been confirmed to be in the Cushing's range, it is absolutely reasonable for you to ask for him to be put on pergolide. In my mare's case, I'd rather pay for pergolide sooner than risk her going down with laminitis because I chose to delay putting her on pergolide.

Out of interest, what food is your boy getting - Does he get a full daily ration of a good vit/min supplement? All I'm wondering is whether he isn't getting enough selenium, as (I've found out from experience with my gang a deficiency can cause them to be at best lethargic and at worst pretty much crippled. Just with you saying he had been overweight, I wondered whether maybe the diet had been reduced, but that possibly vits/mins might be inadequate as a result? Just a thought.

Sarah
 
So there is a little hope yet that we may get our horse back to himself! Thats a good idea about keeping the blood tests ourselves, i will ask for copy results. He is fed on low cal balancer and safe and sound (lami approved) and pink powder currently i believe (hes my mums horse). We have been conscious that he could have been lacking and have tried our best with the balancer and the supplement to make sure hes getting everything he needs. Its so hard when they are lami! Any suggestions would be great though. We will see what the blood tests say, my mum has the figures and i will get them later on but i believe he was well above normal for the levels.

We just want our happy little horse back to himself :(
 
My mare is 19 and was diagnosed with laminitis and Cushings about 18 months ago. So far she has been okay with just the one prascend a day and I haven't had to up the dose. She is also on metformin. Unfortunately she has had repeated low grade laminitis attacks since the original diagnosis despite being a good weight, nice and lean, but it is under control again now. She is however, very bright and perky in herself and feels great to ride. I am careful with her though and only ride when I know she is 100%. Often low grade laminitis shows itself by them just being a bit sluggish. They are not always acutely lame and in obvious pain. You soon learn to spot the warning signs.
 
Sorry to hear about your horse. Cushing's is degenerative and if unmedicated ACTH levels are likely to increase over time, so there's every chance he could have tested negative last year and then positive this year without the vet being at fault.

Another thought - if he is having pink powder and lo-cal balancer you could be overdosing on some vitamins/minerals which isn't always a good thing. I believe selenium for example can be toxic at quite low levels? So it's probably worth using the recommended amount of one or the other but not both. I'm sure someone more knowledgable than me will be happy to advise!
 
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Intersesting thread. I rang my vet a few weeks ago to a) get a dental done and b) wanted her to give my boy a once over as he just wasn't himself. Nothing specifically wrong, but just seemed a bit off color or depressed even. She came out and examined him and asked me about his coat. I've had this horse for four years and his coat is the same as it's always been since I got him - but yes, post clipping the regrowth is a bit weird. We tested him for EMS two years ago which came back negative, possibly close on the IR side of the border,but nothing to worry too much about. So ran bloods which came back today on teh border for cushings. So...now what? She's suggesting that she run again in a few months, or sooner if he's still not right.

I shall be keeping an eye out for any threads or information on Cushings...
 
my 14yo tested negative twice for cushings last year but I was convinced by his symptoms that he had it. Lethargy and muscle wastage plus others.
He went onto a prascend trial 5 months ago and has never looked back. He may not last forever but at least I have my horse back for a while.

Last October he was unrideable but today has been out for a 2 hour ride. He was ridden yesterday and will go out tomorrow so there is hope.

He was only diagnosed at 14 but in hindsight I would guess he has had untreated cushings probably since he was 6. He went into laminitis when he was 6. I kept it under control since then by a very strict no grass diet and exercise.

One of the symptoms was that my horse aged by about 10 years. Now he is back to being 15. :D

I am not sure why your vet is holding off treating him with prascend. I found the drug to be vital and there was no improvement whatsoever without it, in fact things were deteriorating rapidly. I would ask your vet if you can start on it now. If they are not happy for some reason I would point out your symptoms, ie lethargy, ageing etc etc and ask them to get a second opinion from Liphook.

I found that cushings horses need a superior diet, ie the best mineral supplement. I was using equimins metabalance before diagnosis. It provided a lot of positive results especially in his feet so I have stuck with that one.
I also found that cushings horses need good levels of high quality protein. Mine had considerable muscle loss and had completely lost his topline. I fed alfalfa nuts, linseed plus D & H extracted, cooked soya bean meal. That really made a difference. The muscle has rebuilt and he is now moving so much better. Before he was almost dragging himself along, moved very badly behind and was struggling to pick up his hind feet.
Now he is bouncing along and very jolly. :D

If you have the symptoms try and see if they will let you have the drug.
 
Thank you so much every one for your posts, Mum is going to get onto the vet about coming out before the 6 weeks and getting him on the medication. Thats really interesting you say that your horse may have had it since 6, Jake has always been a good doer on fresh air and always had a fine coat so would never have dreamt he could have had it then but i guess they all progress with it differently. He is like a different horse now to what he was last year.. so lethargic.. its sad :( and yes he has no top line at all and looks poor. But we havent been able to work him due to the rotation in his feet.. its been catch 22.. we just want to do the best for him and try and get our horse back for however long that may be.

Thats also a great point about feed and supplements. Will certainly check up on that.

Thanks again everyone, its so nice to hear feed back from people who are going through the same thing.
 
I second the Equimins Advanced Concentrate Metabalance - it has been specially formulated for horses with EMS and Cushings and is the next best thing to mineral balancing - you could replace both the lo cal balancer and pink powder with that - would be cheaper to!

It isn't on their website - you have to call up and order it and ask for the Equimins Advanced Concentrate Metabalance Formula 2!

You can also join the ECIR Yahoo horse group - they are soo helpful and a mindful of information! Their diet consits of Speedi Beet, Micronised Linseed, Salt and Vit/Mins so they would tell you to take him off the Safe and Sound and switch to their diet plan.

It has worked wonders for my boy and now he is back in work, he also gets a scoop of unmolassed alfalfa :D
 
warmbloodcrazy said:
Thank you so much every one for your posts, Mum is going to get onto the vet about coming out before the 6 weeks and getting him on the medication. Thats really interesting you say that your horse may have had it since 6, Jake has always been a good doer on fresh air and always had a fine coat so would never have dreamt he could have had it then but i guess they all progress with it differently. He is like a different horse now to what he was last year.. so lethargic.. its sad :( and yes he has no top line at all and looks poor.
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It is only in hindsight you can look back at weird and wonderful symptoms and problems and realise how it all ties in. A big problem for mine was the immune system. He had a massive skin problem that was getting worse each year, especially in the autumn. He loved his antibiotics. Infections especially upper respiratory track ones that other horses would shrug off in few days would cause him to stop eating and require a nice, long, expensive course of antibiotics. Loads and loads of foot problems that shouldn't have happened to a horse with good feet. The list goes on. Even saddle problems.
Now I know he didn't have a saddle problem he had a problem because the muscle was wasting in the shoulders as well as the hind quarters. Not atrophy due to poor saddle fitting but wasting due to cushings.

Excessive eating was another. At 500kg he was going through a bale of hay around 45 lbs plus hard feed a day and still losing weight and especially muscle. Now he is choosing on adlib hay to eat only half of that and looks so much better. I have just noticed him standing asleep resting a hind leg. He hasn't done that for a very long time.
Sorry to go on. I hope you can make progress. :)
 
So sorry to hear about your horse.

It does sound however, like a 'typical' diagnosis story. I am so sorry.

The trouble with horses and humans is we often don't fit into the exact clinical diagnostic criteria as the time of testing with perhaps the results being just under boarderline or symptoms not entirely 'textbook'. It's just up to a good vet to put the jigsaw together.

As the previous poster suggested hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Now he is presenting with lathergy however, my understanding is that the quicker the symptoms are 'managed'/treated the better chance you have of controlling the condition and your horse being healthy for longer. I'm sure you'll be able to manage it as it's been diagnosed early.

Good luck.
 
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