laminitis or extreme footyness or something else

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Jesstickle

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Nits is weight shifting behind tonight and lame on all four as far as I can tell but definitely both hinds. Vet has advised her to come in tonight on to a huge bed (she has been on box rest since Tuesday but went out into a tiny pen yesterday lunch time after she gave me a lovely concussion)

She is a TB, not overweight but I can not for the life of me think what it could be besides lami. That said, there is no real heat and no real digital pulse.

She definitely has a bruise at the toe on one hind but I can't decide if the bruise is the cause of the lameness or if the bruise is resultant of her feet falling apart. I can't pick up the other foot as she tries to fall over and I've only seen the one I've seen as she got straight down once she came in and I could see it from there.

She is up again and seems happier on the soft (but could be deceptive as she is full of ACP) she is often footy on hard ground although footy rather than hopping lame!

Sorry if that is addled/hysterical but my brain is absolute mush right now!

Any ideas at all as I am baffled and really quite worried that I'm going to have to make some tough decisions about her.
 
Are you good at finding a digital pulse? I found a bounding one in my friend's pony, which she hadn't felt at all.

It does sound like laminitis tbh, especially the laying down, and being happier on a soft bed. Any other clues you can give us - how old, any history of it (sorry if you have been posting but I tend to only come on now and again).
 
No, awful at digital pulses as it isn't something I go looking for very often.

It's a 3yo TB and no, no prior history. It's on box rest for a kick to the hock but it has been going fairly mental in there. Don't know if stress can be a contributory factor as other wise I can't see what has brought it on.

ETA apart from the obvious grass. She only went out on to a 12 foot square patch though. Sigh
 
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what are you feeding her? What is the grazing like? How long is she turned out for at a time?

If you suspect lami (which sounds very likely given symptoms) then feed her nothing but adlib soaked hay and keep her off grass until an improvement is seen....this is likely to be quite quick....she should also be on some bute (or the like) if she is in pain.

Lami is perfectly possible...remember the cause is not specific to fat native ponies (despite these being prone). Any horse can get it. It is an upset to the tummy balance that is to blame....and so even 3 y o thoroughbred can get it!

Horses on box rest may be more at risk....if feed is kept the same despite less exercise being done...this can also cause colic (aside).

Stress is definitely a well known cause of Lami..if you google it you should find more info.
 
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I would be thinking lamintis personally :( My horse recently developed lami on a v restricted diet (she does have cushings though) and even the vets can't find her digital pulse, apparently they are not allways evident in horses legs and can also depend on their own structure. I wouldn't use hoof heat as a guide either I have heard that it is not a good indicator. I hope she gets better soon! x
 
They can be lean and fit and still get it. It sounds like it to me. If you find out that it is, then I suggest that you have your grazing tested, because being low in copper can cause an otherwise fit and not fat horse to get laminitis much more easily than it should. I had one, and my grazing turns out to be high in manganese and iron, both of which suppress the uptake of copper. My horses have had much better feet since I started supplementing copper.

Stress is a HUGE trigger for laminitis, it can be the actual cause. Cortisol is the stress hormone and the Cushings/laminitis test is for cortisol levels, I think. But if she is generally footie on hard ground then people like me with barefoot horses in hard work will tell you that footiness is a sign of incorrect diet. It sounds to me like she has been brewing it for some time. It is very common for it to happen at this age, when the major growth is over and they don't need so many calories. I personally believe it's why so many 3 and 4 year olds "need shoes" when the start work. It just happens to be coincidental that they start work when they stop growing, and people shoe them because they think it's the work making them footie, when it's the diet.
 
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She was out since yesterday lunch time until 7 this evening. Other wise been in for a week on haylage.

Grass was green but not exactly tonnes of it given it was a patch the size of a stable. Not really being fed anything besides a handful of unmollased sugar beet to take the Danillon she has been on for the last two weeks to try and bring her hock down.

I do know everything can get it and I'm pretty sure that's what it is. Even though my vet seems to think I'm mad for suggesting it.

I am just going to shoot the rotten little creature I swear to god!
 
cptrayes said:
They can be lean and fit and still get it. It sounds like it to me. If you find out that it is, then I suggest that you have your grazing tested, because being low in copper can cause an otherwise fit and not fat horse to get laminitis much more easily than it should. I had one, and my grazing turns out to be high in manganese and iron, both of which suppress the uptake of copper. My horses have had much better feet since I started supplementing copper.

Stress is a HUGE trigger for laminitis, it can be the actual cause. Cortisol is the stress hormone and the Cushings/laminitis test is for cortisol levels, I think.
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O joy, well she has been really pretty stressed. It is not like her to bite, kick and total me to the point that I've got a head injury so she is obviously not dealing well.

Interesting about the grazing. Although I seem to remember that our grazing is quite high in copper. But that isn't something I've tested for, just something I've heard.
 
Yes I believe that the cortisol levels affect the metabolism which therefore changes sugar uptakes and causes laminitis. My horse was not a known cushings horse at the time (she was barely 17 and had had no symptoms untill it suddenly happened) but she is now on therapy for it so hopefully will now manage the condition.

Jesstickle I hope your vet wont thing your too crazy and that nits gets better soon! I know how you feel, my horse just kept getting one thing after another through nobodies fault and I just wanted to smack my head against a brick wall! lol
 
Thanks C.

She is footy in summer and gets very flat soles, in winter her feet are much better so I suspect you are right about her diet. Our fields were fertilised this spring and whilst I have been strip grazing them the grass probably is better than I would like. Even my rock cruncher is footy at the moment.

There isn't much I can do about it being fertilised as I'm at livery and it isn't my choice and I don't want to restrict her grazing too much as at the end of the day she is still growing (she definitely is, I can see her get bigger nearly every day) however I probably don't have a choice now.

I expect the stress has just tipped her over the edge.
 
shortstuff99 said:
I just wanted to smack my head against a brick wall! lol
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Won't be doing that. After half a tonne of 3yo has run over it it hurts enough as it blooming is! I am bored of being dizzy, nauseous and sleepy with a banging headache.

I'm sure my vet won't think I'm bonkers as soon as she sees the horse. It seems patently obvious to me!
 
jesstickle said:
She was out since yesterday lunch time until 7 this evening. Other wise been in for a week on haylage.

Grass was green but not exactly tonnes of it given it was a patch the size of a stable. Not really being fed anything besides a handful of unmollased sugar beet to take the Danillon she has been on for the last two weeks to try and bring her hock down.

I do know everything can get it and I'm pretty sure that's what it is. Even though my vet seems to think I'm mad for suggesting it.

I am just going to shoot the rotten little creature I swear to god!
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Don't shoot the horse - burn the haylage............. Big cause of footiness/lami

I think part of the problem for vets is that there seems to be a very rigid definition of lami which means that many will not/can not recognise it/diagnose it until the pedal bone starts to visibly (on x-ray at least) detach and/or sink.

I've known lami diagnosed as sprains, arthritis, hock problems, shoulder problems, behavioural problems, EPSM and navicular. All of these miraculously got better when the diet/exercise regime were modified (less sugar more work). Some took just days.
 
I really think that she has just stressed herself half to death.

She gets adlib haylage all winter and isn't footy at all. It's the summer grass that makes her foot sore. I have to feed her something in winter or she'd be a hat rack. She doesn't exactly do well and isn't a big eater at the best of times. Trying to get her to eat enough hay to not look atrocious is impossible.

I can't up her work, she has just turned three and it isn't exactly high on my list of priorities for a backwards looking 3 year old.
 
It does sound like laminitis to me and as others have said, could be stress induced. It would be worth giving her a probiotic to settle the hind gut, would also feed soaked hay to keep her fibre levels up.

It is interesting that you say she has flat soles, she could just be footy but it would not hurt to treat as lami in the meantime.

Good luck and stop banging your head on the wall, you will get a massive headache to add to your concussion.
 
My insurance company are going to freak out! I already have nearly a grands worth of bills, she probably needs hock surgery and now this. Or rather, they just aren't going to pay out. Sigh.
 
*hugs* if it is any consolation, I have two consecutive claims on one horse going on at the moment, I told the vet he may as well just move in and be done with it.
 
I seem to speak to my vet more than I speak to my OH at the moment. Normally I'd find that funny but not so much this evening!

If they want to xray it's feet they can come to me this time though. I took it in for it's hock to be done and had to take a whole days holiday. Work will fire me soon.
 
jesstickle said:
I really think that she has just stressed herself half to death.

She gets adlib haylage all winter and isn't footy at all. It's the summer grass that makes her foot sore. I have to feed her something in winter or she'd be a hat rack. She doesn't exactly do well and isn't a big eater at the best of times. Trying to get her to eat enough hay to not look atrocious is impossible.

I can't up her work, she has just turned three and it isn't exactly high on my list of priorities for a backwards looking 3 year old.
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I had one full-blown laminitic who had no problem at all with haylage, and one almost sure-fire EMS who lives full time on it right now. I have a laminitis-suspect who is also fine on it, but not fine on grass. Soaked hay is the only 100% safe way though, I do agree. But if yours was fine on haylage all winter she might be fine on it like mine were/are.
 
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