Laminitis....please help!

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Lotty

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My mare was diagnosed with laminitis at the end of March. When the first x-rays were done it was only her left foot that had slightly rotated. We are now coming up to 12weeks and we're still struggling.

I'd managed to get some 3year old hay which I was weighing and soaking and she was doing so well the vet told me to reduce her bute. Then about 4weeks ago I ran out of the old hay and had to start using the Yards hay, soaked again, which is very rich and has alot of clover in it. I then noticed when she circled in her stable she looked quite sore - vet told me to up the bute again which I did but she didn't improve. Vet came out and did x-rays and her right foot had slightly rotated :( I said to the vet it must be the hay as that was the only thing that had changed in her diet.

I have asked on numerous occassions for blood tests to be done but the vet wont do them. Should I get a second opinion? Should she be starting to improve? Do they normally have setbacks?

Sorry for all the questions but it feels like I'm fighting a loosing battle. She's due for her 4th set of Imprints next week, she has to have them every 3weeks as there is alot of foot growth.

These are her last x-rays of 8th June
FRONTFOOT-Lateromedial-6_8_2010--1.jpg

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There are often up and downs, it is a horrid roller coaster ride that you don't know will end well or not.

You have my sympathy :(
 
What age is she? In her late teens, it's a possibilty she has Cushing's, so ask to try Pergolide. This was the turning point for us and many on here.

Also, search on here for Pergolide in posts and threads. There's tons of stuff on here so please look back. It'll save us all lots of time and you'll get stacks of amazing advice.
 
Your vet is an idiot. If no improvement within 48hrs with bute and ACP then blood test should be done to identify the cause. Phone the Laminitis Clinics helpline and get another vet. Very quickly.

Best of luck. You both must be miserable.
 
Agreed with the others maybe a bit more should be being done...
we are the same with our 16 y/o mare, she has heart bars on and in 4 months has had 2 weeks sound on and off :(
she's no longer on bute but the vet is coming back out next week as like you it is now the other foot which is the problem as opposed to last time!
As said above straw can be used :)
I hope you start getting some good luck soon!! x
 
It could very well be the hay. I would certainly be fnding some crappier stuff. If you really can't find any try the HorseHage High Fibre.
How else is she managed. Presumably she is on box rest while on painkillers. This is essential IMO and she should stay on that until she is pain free for a good month off painkillers.
I soak my hay for as long as possible...usually over night and rinsed off after.
What else is she fed?
 
It could very easily be the hay - recent research has shown that prolonged soaking is not always enough to make hay safe for laminitics, especially if they hay is high in sugar in the first place. Firstly I would try and find another source of old hay, and get it analysed to check the sugar level (Dodson & Horrell will do this quite cheaply). If you can't get an alternative source of hay, then look at other hay replacers in the short term - Dengie HiFi Lite and Spiller's Happy Hoof are both Laminitis Trust approved and can be fed as total hay replacers, although it doesn't work out cheap.

As others have said, it is worth investigating whether Cushings may be the cause of the laminitis.
 
Thank you so, so much for your replies.

I tried to ring the laminitc helpline but they close at 4.00pm, so I will ring them on Monday morning. I rang my vet and demanded a blood test to be taken - she will have her blood tests done when I take her to the vets for my farrier next week. I mentioned the hay to the vet but he said if I'm soaking it for 12hours (which I am), then it should leach all the sugars out. Like your replies, I don't agree with this. Also I rang Jackie Taylor and she confirmed it could be the hay. I also ran through her feed and she thought it was fine but did mention blood tests.

My mare is 13 years, 16.1hh and her breeding is half dutch warmblood/quarter TB/quarter shire - so she is quite big boned. Her feed is 1scoop happy hoof morning and night and 18KG of hay - the night hay is soaked all day and her day hay is soaked all night. I am currently feeding her 1.5% of her bodyweight.

She has been stabled now for 12weeks on rubber matting and deep shavings and only comes out of her stable to be x-rayed. She has sedaline on a morning and bute morning and night.

If anyone feels I can do more, please feel free to let me know x
 
have you considered feeding her something like topspec anti-lam? (instead of the happy hoof) I have only ever heard good things about it with lami sufferers. Don't get me wrong, I think HH is wonderful but she might need something else to help her recover from this.

as for the hay. I would halve the quantity of hay (still soak it) and mix with the same amount of straw if I were in your position. That or feed hi-fi lite or similar as a hay replacer.
 
My lad had plenty of setbacks along the way, he is a 15hh Welsh D and had 12 degrees rotation in one front. After the usual treatments of box rest, soaked hay and many traumas along the way when he stopped eating altogether because of the stress of being confined and dropped weight to a rack of ribs and I was hand feeding him handfuls of healthy hooves!
The vet actually got me to pen an area off outside his stable in the end on wood chip so he could get out and be less stressed.
He was given the all clear after about 3 months and declared sound and we went for several weeks gradually increasing his turnout time on a bald paddock, moving the fence inches per day. And then over the winter period for no apparent reason he had several setbacks where he would be fine and then I would turn up to feed him and put him away for the night to find him hopping lame. This went on for a while with up's and downs that appeared to be due to the farrier not preparing his feet well enough and leaving more than one angle down the front of his hoof. This was put right and he has been sound (touch wood) ever since and is now able to be hacked out.
You can get there and it is damn painful along the way and yes, setbacks are common and my vet did warn me it would not be plain sailing.
You need to get those bloods done and go down the process of elimination that I did with my horse...bloods, diet, stress and eliminate until you hopefully find the answer.
Is your horse coping ok with the box rest?
It may be the hay so scour the earth for some older hay and preferably not the coarse stalky type as this can be very high in sugars.
Good luck I hope all goes well...it is a long journey that nearly broke my spirit and put a huge strain on my relationship with my husband.
I hope you get there and all goes well.
 
i would find some ancient crappy hay and soak it asap. even double soak it (fresh water for about 4 hours and then changed and soaked again for 4 hours)
also make sure you/anyone else arent feeding 'hard feed'
but she IS getting some kind of balancer for healing and minerals and vitamins.
and i would want bloods done.
i would also expect the farrier to be heavily involved given the rotation, which it sounds like they are.
 
CBFan said:
have you considered feeding her something like topspec anti-lam? (instead of the happy hoof) I have only ever heard good things about it with lami sufferers. Don't get me wrong, I think HH is wonderful but she might need something else to help her recover from this.

as for the hay. I would halve the quantity of hay (still soak it) and mix with the same amount of straw if I were in your position. That or feed hi-fi lite or similar as a hay replacer.
Click to expand...

Happy Hoof is a chaff, Anti-Lam is a balancer. I don't think you'd mean to replace one with the other. The topspec product i think you mean is the Top Chop Lite, which is a very low sugar chaff. Happy hoof is one of the lowest sugar chaffs as far as I remember, but top chop lite is possibly lower, so worth investigating. When my mare was struggling with Lami, I had her on large quantities of happy hoof, soaked hay, (I was soaking it for 24 hours as it was too rich to just have it it left for just 8 or 12 hours and changing the water every time a new net went in). I put her on Formula 4 Feet and that was all the balancer she had.

Good luck, and as soon as the Laminitis Clinic's hotline opens, be sure to get in touch.
 
Soak your hay for 24 hrs before feeding and send the bloods that your vet takes to the laminitis clinic. Make sure you speak to them before the vet arrives to find out what type (there are several!!) and number of blood tubes are required. Your vet will probably not perform the correct tests (there are also MANY of these!!) by the sound of the level of their incompetance.

Also re feeding - please don't go out today and buy something different because someone or many people on here have said it was great for their horse. There are many different feeds that are appropriate and suitable for laminitics BUT laminitis is a metablic disease caused by abnormalities in the hind gut. Suffering/recovering horses are often so imbalanced/sensitive that even changing from one brand of 'safe' feed to another will bring on an attack. Soak your hay for 24 hours, preferably changing the water after 12 hours and giving a fresh rinse before feeding but make no other changes until you have spoken to the laminits clinic.

I really hope you get this sorted out for the sake of you both. Once again - best of luck and many hugs.
 
I went to the one day laminitis awareness clinic a few weeks ago - it was very interesting, and the latest research shows that the majority of laminitis cases are caused by the horse being overweight, with some horses having a lower threshold than others.

The extra fat is not inert, it secretes a hormone that causes inflammation in the horse, which has the most effect in the hooves - hence the swelling of the lamellae, or laminitis.

Obviously cushings and metabolic syndrome cases are different, but until you get the results of the blood tests, it is worth treating her as you are, ie to assume it is a weight problem.

Have you considered clipping her out? It really helps as the horse has to use extra energy to keep warm. This is not much use if you can't bear to see her clipped without a rug (although none of mine are cold enough to shiver) so don't try it if you are just going to rug her up instead!

I have 3 of my lami native type ponies clipped right out, one had a lightweight rug on last night as it was fairly bitter and I only clipped him a few days ago, but the other two went naked and for the shetland, it is the first spring/summer that he has been able to lead a fairly normal life, going out for short periods and allowed in the lami paddock for most of the day.
 
I have got 2 laminitics (Cushings Disease).
Keeping your horse stabled and on a thick bed is the correct course of action.
Also try to give your horse one slice of 1 - 2 hour soaked hay every 4 hours with hardly any other feed just enough for horse to take medication. What you should try to do is to very gradually get your horse to loose weight.
Your vet needs to identify what triggered this incidence of laminitis and it could be a number of multiple of diffent things such a Cushings Disease, Insulin Intolerance, Concushion, Emerging encystead small red worms, stress, medical shock etc.
If Laminitis is suspected then rubber frog/hoof supports should be immediately fitted (they will make your horse more comfortable) they are available from the laminitis clinic. They should be kept on until the horse becomes sound.
It is correct that research has shown that soaking some hay does not reduce the carbohydrate contect. However do not soak hay for longer than 2 hours especially in warnmer weather as this in itself can create toxins.
In most cases you only need the farrier once the condition has stabilised.
 
Personally I would try stopping the Happy Hoof and finding poorer quality hay if poss.
Think Detox. Does your horse really need feeding? If so, try Fast Fibre. Its what my laminitics are on although when my pony came to me with raging laminitis he got nothing but a handful to put his bute in. He basically got soaked hay only but you really need late cut hay as even soaking won't be enough for some good hay.
 
_HP_ said:
Personally I would try stopping the Happy Hoof and finding poorer quality hay if poss.
Click to expand...

Agree!

Sorry to go off on a bit of a tangent, but interestingly, I have a friend who works at the AHT, and quite a number of the lami cases that they see have recently been put onto Happy Hoof before coming down with an attack. I am usually a fan of Spillers & Dengie, but despite both Happy Hoof and Dengie Lite being stamped as 'Approved by the Laminitis Trust', they have more calories in then I like. IMO, the best low calorie chaff is TopChop Lite - if you need something to feed your horse's drugs in. It is a little more expensive than some though. Second to this is Dengie's Good Doer, which I think is a better product than the Lite, and what I currently feed a handful of per day to my fatty with her balancer and meds.

Good luck with you horse, OP. xx
 
another who would prob switch the chaff to another lower sugar brand.

I also think that larger horses can struggle more, just because of the weight on their feet.

it makes sense that soaking doesn't work..... there is a lot between the water and the sugar with long stemmed hay, hence the horses digestive system and why the older the hay/ feeding straw would be better.

OP I hope you can get things progressed with your vet or change if necessary. Speak to lami trust and refer what they say to your vet seems best initial course of action. Do keep us updated :)
 
There are 7 kinds of Laminitus!

EMS equine metabolic syndrome
Cushings
Steroidal
mechanical
stress induced-through starving and other stresses
concussive-endurance and driving horses get this!
fat pony

Now depending upon which one your horse has got depends on what to do-but 3 things are key

Feed
Farrier
Vet

All require FEEDING and your farrier and vet working together. Support for your horses pedal bone is necessary and now with the vettec products this is very easy to do by your farrier

As people here have already said you need to first find out what is causing the lami and what type it is! So yes, blood tests are required!

A good vitamin supplement is required and then feed lots of high fibre stuff! And I mean lots! You need to get the lami toxins out of the horses system! Rossdales did an excellent talk on this and people were surprised at the picture of the amount of food they wanted you to feed!

3x a day the high fibre nuts/chaff (no mollases obviously)
1/2 - 3/4 bale of hay soaked for 1 hour no longer and dispose of the water carefully

Once the foot is stablised then small walks in hand can start

Each horse is different of course and responds accordingly to the treatment/management

Research is in its infancy of ice treatment however very encouraging results have happened using ice boots

Very best of luck and I hope that you can see what type of lami your lovely mare has got asap
 
I have an older (approx 18) lami pony who has ended up lame every year until this one, we seem to have cracked it *touches wood*. He lives out on a small paddock 24/7, with a shettie, and they have Fast Fibre and Safe & Sound with Stand-Free supplement. They also have soaked hay fed on the ground - the hay is old and I mostly soak it because it is really dusty (not mouldy).

I hope that you can get your mare sorted out. :)
 
Happy hoof and safe and sound full of sugars. Safest chaff is simple systems lucie stalks. Plain chaff with nothing added.
When mine was in with lami i fed old old hay 3 years old which was just fibre.
I do question should she be travelled. Thought the laminae could tear if horse moved when healing and that was also some of the cause of rotation hence the long term box rest?!
I prepare to be shot down in flames but thats how understood it.
Good luck it is a pain in the ar*e but I am now on my third clear year ( prantically touching wood) so must be doing something right!!
 
cm2581 said:
please don't go out today and buy something different because someone or many people on here have said it was great for their horse. There are many different feeds that are appropriate and suitable for laminitics BUT laminitis is a metablic disease caused by abnormalities in the hind gut. Suffering/recovering horses are often so imbalanced/sensitive that even changing from one brand of 'safe' feed to another will bring on an attack.
Click to expand...

Have to agree on this one. My horse was on Top Spec Anti-Lam when she got laminitis :(. I'm feeding it again this year as part of a stricter management plan, but it certainly won't solve current problems.

You have all my sympathy - I know how absolutely awful it is and how worried sick you must be.
 
foraday said:
There are 7 kinds of Laminitus!

EMS equine metabolic syndrome
Cushings
Steroidal
mechanical
stress induced-through starving and other stresses
concussive-endurance and driving horses get this!
fat pony

Now depending upon which one your horse has got depends on what to do-but 3 things are key

Feed
Farrier
Vet

All require FEEDING and your farrier and vet working together. Support for your horses pedal bone is necessary and now with the vettec products this is very easy to do by your farrier

As people here have already said you need to first find out what is causing the lami and what type it is! So yes, blood tests are required!

A good vitamin supplement is required and then feed lots of high fibre stuff! And I mean lots! You need to get the lami toxins out of the horses system! Rossdales did an excellent talk on this and people were surprised at the picture of the amount of food they wanted you to feed!

3x a day the high fibre nuts/chaff (no mollases obviously)
1/2 - 3/4 bale of hay soaked for 1 hour no longer and dispose of the water carefully

Once the foot is stablised then small walks in hand can start

Each horse is different of course and responds accordingly to the treatment/management

Research is in its infancy of ice treatment however very encouraging results have happened using ice boots

Very best of luck and I hope that you can see what type of lami your lovely mare has got asap
Click to expand...


This is very good advice. Laminitis has several trigger factors and they need to be identified.

The ice treatment is interesting and not that far removed from standing a laminitic pony in cold water which I am old enough to remember!
 
My vet told me abouty the ice treatment research and encouraged me to use it. I bought bags of ice from the wine merchant which i crushed with a hammer a bit and applied around the foot as often as I could.
 
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