Laminitis Rant.

I use mag oz as well, the lines as others have said won't reflect on what's happening now that's things that have happened in the past, maybe such a mild attack it wasn't noticed which can happen so not to worry. Also are the lines the same all the way round the hoof? Or go down at the heel? Only say this because lines can be coursed by many things Inc stress, lammi, change in diet etc but lami rings tend to go down at the heels as they grow more heel after a attack.
 
Maybe this is just me and please don't think I am stirring things up but I get the feeling that although you say you are worried that in reality you are not really doing things to remedy this.

2 haynets? Also if this horse was mine I would be out of bed and there before 6am turnout.

I had a mare with laminitis, she jumped out of her paddock and was in the big field for one hour. Apparently, she had it just before we bought her (so there was no sign on her feet).

I did a lot of research and the common theme was box rest, frog supports and diet. My mare had about 6 weeks total box rest, deep shavings and a very strict diet. It has paid off as there was no rotation showing in the xrays. I trickle fed her, Mum, Dad and sister all chipped in spending time putting small haynets in. Very hard work but it paid off.

From mid March my field gets paddocked off and the regime begins. Saturday morning is weigh day.

If this has happened to you more than once, next time you might not be so lucky and your horse might founder.

If your vet isn't taking this seriously maybe its time to find a new one. Any vet worth their salt would as a minimum have a conversation with you over the phone to start a plan. Laminitis is an acute condition that requires an urgent response.

PS I agree with you about the weather, I live on a few miles away from where you were staying - its been a rubbish week!
 
thatsmygirl said:
Please don't starve him :)
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Wish someone would tell my YO this........

When little one had it last year she was on box rest for 6 weeks, bute and small soaked nets, after 6 weeks she was 1 hr per day on a bare paddock and built it up, it was hell as she is a RAO pony and the stables where indoors with other horses on straw.

I would call the vet for a chat, my vet always tells me to call him for a chat, its free and if he can give me advice over the phone for free till he gets there he is happy.
 
The thing about checking the DP is that in order to get a good reading you really need to wait an hour after he has been stabled and check again as if he cantered up to you then he would had a pulse anyway.......my vet said thats the tricky thing with checking it straight away as if they have been playing around then there will be increased blood flow to hoof, we check when they come and have hoof picked out then just before leaving to compare........to be honest if you we're that worrif then why didnt you tell your yo right away? She would be able to tell you if he was still lame in the morning when turning out (which i wouldnt do but thats me).

Hope it's not too bad.
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In addition to emergency treatment of keeping him off grass, on a comfortable surface and providing plenty of soaked hay, I would:

1) Get the vet and have him tested for Insulin Resistance or Cushing's (the free lab vouchers are available in April and May now).
http://www.talkaboutlaminitis.co.uk/

2) Get him trimmed - his hooves are too long and will be causing a levering force to a weak laminae.

3) Get his grazing analysed with a view to balancing his minerals - too high iron and too little copper and zinc will impair insulin production and regulation.

4) Move him to a bare paddock with hay or muzzle him in his present field and turnout nights only.

If you do the above - he will have the ability to tolerate grazing better without becoming acutely ill.

Laminitis is a symptom - you need to find out the cause.

Good luck :)
 
I own a fatty as well (irish bog cob), who hasnt worked for 2 weeks due to my work commitments,and has been turned out, oh what a bad horse owner I am. By the way mine is fine.

However with regard to the heat in his foot, I learned something a few weeks ago from our vet. Mini TX's eventer has been diagnosed with deep digital flexor tendon injury, its god knows how long on box rest etc. However, before we got to that stage, we were checking her legs just before the vet came the first time to check her lameness. Her legs and feet were intermittently hot and then fine. The vet told us that its the way the horse's circulation works, apparently its not a consistent flow of blood all the time to the horses legs, it can work as a surge of blood, which then translates as heat.

Before you guys shoot me down, thats was straight from my vets mouth. He is a reputable qualified one, works for a big practice in our area, and his qualfications to check out.

Hope you little fatty gets well. Fingers crossed for you.
 
You're a bit of an eejit really. The symptoms and your ;treatment plan; do not fit with laminitis. Firstly, laminitis is normally bilateral although i''l give you it can be just one foot. The DP are normally bounding or at least, more than just felt. It is normal for horses to have mild digital pulses. The rings are a couple of months old, not a day or two. I would suspect a stone bruise at this point more than laminitis and would be cold poulticing and resting in a deep bed anyway.
The treatment plan is bonkers. Laminitics do not go back out until an attack is over. They stay on a deep bed and don't move much because the more they move the more damage they do. Drugs are dependant on the laminitic. So no, do not treat a laminitic this way, how you can claim to have 'experience' I don't know...
As for the vet, I probably wouldn't call for a very slight lameness unless it doesn't resolve with a weeks boxrest (in most cases I give bute the first 3 days to settle an inflammation). This can be on restricted rations so you effectively treat both symptoms. If no improvement in a week, call the vet.
 
TheoryX1 i have been told this........if any of mine have heat ing hoof i check that it matches the other 3 if matches then fine if not then just keep an eye......when vet started talking about to types of circulation the hooves and how it worked my brain started to flatline :D
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SusieT said:
You're a bit of an eejit really. The symptoms and your ;treatment plan; do not fit with laminitis. Firstly, laminitis is normally bilateral although i''l give you it can be just one foot. The DP are normally bounding or at least, more than just felt. It is normal for horses to have mild digital pulses. The rings are a couple of months old, not a day or two. I would suspect a stone bruise at this point more than laminitis and would be cold poulticing and resting in a deep bed anyway.
The treatment plan is bonkers. Laminitics do not go back out until an attack is over. They stay on a deep bed and don't move much because the more they move the more damage they do. Drugs are dependant on the laminitic. So no, do not treat a laminitic this way, how you can claim to have 'experience' I don't know...
As for the vet, I probably wouldn't call for a very slight lameness unless it doesn't resolve with a weeks boxrest (in most cases I give bute the first 3 days to settle an inflammation). This can be on restricted rations so you effectively treat both symptoms. If no improvement in a week, call the vet.
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That first comment is a bit harsh.

Now I know why I rarely venture onto NL. Am going back to CR, where they are more civilised. OP, I am quite offended on your behalf, whatever your level of knowledge, there is no need to be rude.
 
I would warn you that Pollitt's voice is slightly hypnotic.....I cannot promise you won't drift off
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Some posters on this thread appear to be stuck in a very old model that laminitis is not laminitis unless it is critical. In practise, of course, laminitis simply means "inflammation of the laminae" and it can be very mild or life threatening or anywhere in between.

It often, in the early stages, affects a "signature foot" before the others and although it's nowhere near as common it is possible for this to be a hind foot. Digital pulses are "normal" for many horses in spring and summer but uncommon in winter. To me this indicates that it is the grass which causes the pulses. Of course it then also raises the question as to whether a digital pulse in any horse is a warning that something worse might be on the way if you do not change things. That's certainly my experience.

Regarding the strength of pulses, a friend has a horse who is markedly lame on his signature foot with quite a mild pulse. I own a lammi-potential and he got quite footsore with small pulses (for two days until I worked out how much grass he could cope with). Pulses do not always have to be bounding to suggest that the horse has a problem.

OP I don't know if that helps at all, and I hope your fellow is fine again soon.
 
Oberon i'm going to watch it in bits, he really makes you drift for a long, long time :D

Cptrayes: im not saying a dp should be ignored but it shouldnt br paniced over either, if mine come in, in any season, with a dp i wait an hour for them to stand in stable then check again. I knew a lady whose horse was lame, trotted up lame she then checked dp and it was up she went into a panic called vet out as was sure with heat in foot, lameness and pd that it was lami.....turned out the horse had fractured pedal bone being stupid in the feild and had sprained other hoof by putting extra weight on it
 
So its not a perfect pointer, just one of many things to be aware off ant not panic about if it is up as could just as easliy be nothing as something but thats my experience and we all know in the horse world nothing is ever easy or the same for every horse and owner.

Xx
 
slightlyconfused said:
Oberon i'm going to watch it in bits, he really makes you drift for a long, long time :D

Cptrayes: im not saying a dp should be ignored but it shouldnt br paniced over either, if mine come in, in any season, with a dp i wait an hour for them to stand in stable then check again. I knew a lady whose horse was lame, trotted up lame she then checked dp and it was up she went into a panic called vet out as was sure with heat in foot, lameness and pd that it was lami.....turned out the horse had fractured pedal bone being stupid in the feild and had sprained other hoof by putting extra weight on it
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Sorry SC, it wasn't your comments I was responding to, but one that suggested that there can't possibly be a problem unless the digital pulse is pounding. Like you say, you need to know what is "normal" for your own horse, as they are all different. I agree with you completely, it's something to explore, not to panic over.
 
Well done for rethinking :-)))) I agree with all the other posters, box rest in deep bed until the horse is sound for at least a week, then a little walking out until sound doing that for at least a week and then turnout in a small paddock with no grass fed soaked hay for - well - maybe ever if it is a repeat attack....

Def would not be touching grass until well after the horse is sound again.

But the horse should be turned out in the long term, pref in a non grass paddock but def not stabled as stabled their hooves dont get the exercise/blood supply stimulus they need for long term recovery.

good luck it must be so horrid to come back and thing 'ohhh no'.
 
Oberon said:
In addition to emergency treatment of keeping him off grass, on a comfortable surface and providing plenty of soaked hay, I would:

1) Get the vet and have him tested for Insulin Resistance or Cushing's (the free lab vouchers are available in April and May now).
http://www.talkaboutlaminitis.co.uk/

2) Get him trimmed - his hooves are too long and will be causing a levering force to a weak laminae.

3) Get his grazing analysed with a view to balancing his minerals - too high iron and too little copper and zinc will impair insulin production and regulation.

4) Move him to a bare paddock with hay or muzzle him in his present field and turnout nights only.

If you do the above - he will have the ability to tolerate grazing better without becoming acutely ill.

Laminitis is a symptom - you need to find out the cause.

Good luck :)
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Second this. Carrying on turning him out is a big risk imo until you have a diagnosis. ... and, I don't care if this is your horse you are putting him at potential further risk.

ps. Yes, I did get out of bed the wrong side this morning!
 
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There are a lot of lameness issues in the world as well as laminitis.
It is an unusual way you have approached the problem, You have decided the cause of the lameness ( you might well be right, you might not be) you have decided on your course of treatment.
I look forward to more sensational ranting and further commentary on your ponys condition.
Advice I have none, your doing a great job :D
 
Any chance it could be something other than laminitis?
An abscess or stone bruise?
I think Id be tempted to give my farrier a ring and get his opinion, so I knew for sure what I was dealing with.
Hope your boy gets better soon, whatever it is.
Kx
 
little_critter said:
Thanks Oberon - that was really interesting. Are there any more?
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http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=508468&highlight=laminitis

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=507897&highlight=laminitis

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=507187&highlight=laminitis

and this is from Gene Ovnicek - inventor of the NB shoe. It's a bit dry, but it has some nice pics.
[YOUTUBE]KOMDzlLKtP0[/YOUTUBE]

There are some interesting cadaver hoof videos from the Swiss School on YouTube but I won't start a riot by posting them on here - they can be a bit BF militant ;)
 
Oberon, Im always open to learning more and keeping an open mind even if im not keeping mine BF doesnt mean i wont learn about it.....

Right, back to the Bahrain GP and the yummy Mr Button :D
X
 
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