Laminitis - should I pts?

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millieloulou

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My 9 year old mare went down with severe laminitis in June. Shes been having x rays every 5 weeks (or sooner if needed) and every x ray showed that the pedal bone had either dropped or rotated. The farrier has been putting imprint shoes on and also building up the heel if needed.
She was then diagnosed as having an abscess in one of her fronts, which was treated but the good news was that that x ray showed that the pedal bone had stabilised. She was then fitted with aluminium shoes (glued on). Since then, she has deteriorated and is now shifting her weight from foot to foot and is almost hobbling around her stable not wanting to put much weight on this particular foot.
A decision to put her to sleep is being made difficult because she is bright in herself, still eating, not sweating or showing any other signs of being in unbearable pain. My vet also wants to try taking the shoes off and applying Styrofoam pads to her soles (?) he said that whilst she is fairly comfortable we should try everything we can to try and sort it.
I really want to know what other people on here think. Should I have her pts? Should I carry on trying?
If she does start to show signs of being any more uncomfortable than she already is, I will have her pts without question.
Thanks for any views.
 
carry on trying for now while there are options which might enable her to actually have a pain free and happy life. When you run out of options with a decent track record or she is miserable, pts, which sounds like your plan :-)))
 
Contact Robert Eustace from the laminitis trust. If you google his name you will find him. I cannot find his details at present.
He did a lecture for us. He is the top man for laminitis and will be able to help you no end.
Your mare does not sound nearly as bad as some he has worked with with a postive outcome.
Good luck.
 
My opinion is that only you really knows the answer, i know that isnt much help, but you see your horse daily, we dont. I would go with your vet to an extent, yes try different things but again, you see your horse daily, the vet doesnt. I think you will know when the time is right. Its understandable to be considering the option, and you do have to be realistic re how much you are going to try. i'm sorry i'm not much help.
From your post - she is still young, and only started with it in June, hence based on that, i myself would try a little longer.
hope she is ok x

ps - with glue on shoes, if they move slightly they can make a horse seem much worse. I did actually know a girl who had her mare PTS after her imprint shoes kept on moving and she would go badly lame. in that situation i would have tried longer, however the owner had battled with bouts of Lami for years hence she decided enough was enough, the mare was about 22 when she was PTS.
 
Hi Millieloulou

I am so sorry to read about your mare having Laminitis.

I know how you feel as I loaned a chronic laminitic for 14 years, and I can really sympathise with you.

Laminitis is sometimes seen as the route with no end but I can assure you that in many cases things get better, much much better and even verge on perfect.

I have had the experience, with sunken and fully rotated pedal bones in all four feet. Once recovered - about a year later - we went on long rides, done one day events, sponsored rides, jumping, beach rides and so on. He was just a normal horse. It just takes a lot of time, consideration and patience in the way you manage the after they have recovered.
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I would, in my exeperience do the following:

Ensure a deep shavings bed, of at least 8 inches.
Do not deep litter, take the wet out everyday.
Start to feed your mare seaweed - this will promote new hoof growth.
Start to feed your mare 'Pink Powder' this will help her feel better, look better, heal quicker and keep her gut moving and improve her metabolic system (which is a main contributor to Laminitis).
Feed only Thrashed hay, and as much as you would feed normally - soaked if possible.
Do not starve her
The mix I would reccomend is L-Mix by Allen and Page with HI Fi light or Speedy beet.

If your mare is shod, I would also put hoof disinfectant in the nail holes everyday. If barefoot, then you could also put this around the white line area - just for cleanliness.

I would like to know more about your mare and the reason for her laminitis. I should then be able to give you some more advise - dont give in yet!

For info, the gelding I had was a Welsh Section D who got laminitis from a number of reasons:

Poison
Grass induced
Concussion
Illness
Pain in another area
Cushings

Hope this helps, and that I can be of further help.

x
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Very sorry to hear about your mare - I haven't really got anything to add in terms of advice except to say that I have had experience of a couple of our ponies over the years, and even when it seems really grim there can be light at the end. One in particular was really bad but with the help of an excellent farrier and lots of attention and tlc was back to a useful and painfree life. Only you can really tell when it is time - but don't give up too soon either
 
How about going back to the imprints? They were the best thing for my pony because they spread the pressure much more evenly and allowed the frogs and some of the sole of the foot to take some weight.

Why did the farrier change from imprints to aluminium - was it the vet's suggestion or his, or was it because of the abscess? I can't see the benefit of aluminium in laminitis except in that there are light and don't require nails, because it is putting all the weight back on the hoof wall again.

Mine had pedal bone rotation so badly that my vet shook his head and said there was only one option - pts. The Laminitis Trust run by Robert Eustace (as Silver Florin said) is just the best for advice. Their helpline costs £1 a minute and it was the best £30 I ever spent. Pony won local jumping championship a year after his worst lami attack.

When there is still hope, don't give up.
 
HI im really sorry to hear this.
I went through the exact same with my boy when he was 6. He had rotation of the pedal bone, he had the Heartbar shoes, these american style shoes - which then caused him so much discomfort, i thought this was the end for him - he had given up the ghost. As cruel as it may sound, i didnt give up. I got a second opinion from another vet/farrier, they took him back to basics - no shoes, deep bed, trimmed every 4 weeks. They had him sound within a few months.
Believe me it does get better. I would seriously consider the imprints being put back on.

Good luck, keep me updated.x
 
We decided to have our mare pts the moment her sole cracked and Robert Eustace told us her only option was major surgery at a cost of between 5-8k and a sty at his place of up to 6 months, when she might only ever be grass sound anyway. Her quality of life was never going to be same and it was likely she had a metabolic problem causing her lami to keep reoccurring (she kept have accute attacks, even after she made a good recovery). The op may not have worked anyway as it is a pioneering treatment and we did not want to put her through that agony for nothing.

I got there on the Thursday and her soles were cracked. She was bright and OK in herself, but the feet were becoming a mess. The lami had been caused by an infection - how did we get to this?
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Broke my heart. Called the vet immediately and he said he would call Robert and the lami unit in Bristol, which he did that night. He dosed her up on a painkiller and sedative and she was down until early morning. When I got there the next morning I knew what was going to happen that day. Her feet were not much worse than the night before but they were not better and she was in more pain and not as bright. The vet came at 12ish and told me what Robert had said; after a conversation with my husband over the phone, he raced to the yard from work, taking half a day off and we spent the day with her. She was pts at 7pm. She could hardly even walk from her stable to the barn where she was pts
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There was no question of keeping her alive at this point. She was in considerable pain. Until her feet cracked we had held out every hope in the world for her and would never have given up on her. But at the point when the pedal bone was coming through and catastrophy was round the corner, we were not going to put her through more pain. Now all we are left with is what-ifs? and thinking of what we should have done etc.

In your situation, withthe sole still together, I'd keep encouraging her to make a recovering, stay positive and try everything, cutting no corners, until the time comes when it is clear all she'd ever have again was pain and restriction.
 
I know
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But you're still left thinking 'what if I'd chosen this instead of that?' and 'what if that person was wrong?' and 'what if we'd sent her to Robert the moment we found out she had lami?' and 'what if that stupid wench of a vet who could not make a diagnosis one way or another had not been sent the first day of the lami?'. I still cry every day which of course is because I miss the mare, but a lot of it is guilt and the not knowing what other options we missed, if any. Therefore, I would always encourage someone to keep trying as much as possible for as long as the horse still has a chance. Obviously don't put the horse through unnecessary suffering, but if you read my threads on veterinary, you'll see that I think I did everything we could do at the time
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I always thought what if, my boy wasnt as extreme as yours, i kept him going, he still has foot issues even to this day - mainly down to a bad farrier. I often used think did i put him through too much. I look at him now and i no i made the right decision.
It sounds like you had done everything you could to help your mare, dont beat yourself up over it.
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Before even considering putting your horse down you need to determine what has caused this incident of Laminitis.

I fail to understand why your horse is having shoes put on it while it is still in pain. It should have rubber frog supports fitted to support the frogs rather than shoes. (Imprint shoes are acceptable). Metal shoes are normally only fitted again once your horse goes sound and even then only on sight of the x ray.

You firstly need to identify what has caused the Laminitis. Your vet should take bloods to see if anything shows up.

Laminitis can be causes by Stress, Infection, Cushings Disease, Insulin Intolerance, Emerging Encystead Small Red worms (which will not show up in a worm count) etc.

The Robert Eustace Laminitis site will provide you with an overview.

You can expect abscess's during or after an incident of Laminitis. This is quite normal.
 
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