Laminitis Woes

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Paigeous

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Hi guys,

I've had my 11yo mare since she was 3 & for the first time I'm face with laminitis. She had a bad start in life so I don't know what her breeding is, but popular opinion is that she's a Welsh Mountain Cob x ? She's not massively chunky but she's always been quite a curvy girl & she's 14.1hh. She's always been a good-doer.
At first I thought her problem was over-long feet (even though our farrier was scheduled at the same interval as usual) because she was in a paddock with nowhere near as much grass as she has previously been allowed, but he told me her feet were not that long & found a pulse in her leg. Under his advice & my own knowledge, she is now stabled on shavings & is being fed HiFi Lite & a laminitis supplement. No hay for a while, as she is rather lame. She seemed immediately happier after having her shoes removed & getting in the stable with rubber matting & shavings.
However, I'm not entirely sure what to do next..
I have read up on laminitis before, but not having to deal with it in 8 years means I'm a tad rusty. I've researched a bit tonight but after a while I just became more unsure & upset.
How long must I wait before I can allow her a leg-stretch in a small paddock? The one I'm thinking of has quite a bit of grass in it but is a much shorter walk than her own & I am intending to buy a grazing muzzle tomorrow.. Would she be okay for half an hour with a muzzle while I muck out, or should I wait a while? I'm asking so soon because she HATES being stuck in the stable & is ONLY being fed HiFi Lite..
Also, worrying about recovery time & long-term restrictions as she normally lives out in the summer with my 4yo ISH mare & having been together 3 years, they are very attached. The 4yo is stabled with her atm & has no symptoms of laminitis, nor is she overweight.. Do you think I'll be able to turn them out together again (with or without use of the grazing muzzle on the 11yo)? Or am I going to have to separate them so that 4yo can have more grass, while I restrict the 11yo?

Any help much appreciated. Very upset & guilt-ridden mummy right now :( xxx
 
If I was you I would contact a vet really, as horses with laminitis should be monitored carefully. She would also need bute for the pain (as its a a very painful condition) and possibly acp. Also if the lami is bad she may need x-rays of her feet to check for pedal bone rotation. I would also move her as little as possible and don't leave her to stand on hard grund. A horse is deemed as 'cured' of laminitis and therefore able to graze once they are sound for 3 weeks with no painkillers. I also would not feed her hard feed and only feed soaked hay. Also it would be worth getting her tested for ems as she seems the type.
 
Hi, thanks for your reply.
At the risk of sounding heartless, (which I'm really not :() I don't want to get the vet out if she doesn't actually need it.. It's already going to cost a lot in feed/hay(eventually)/grazing muzzle/shavings/supplements, at a time when I really wasn't expecting to pay for much except my livery :/ She'd only been noticeably lame for 2 days when the farrier said it wasn't her shoes. She came straight in the stable. And when I found she was lame, I put her straight in a small paddock on her own with very little grass, just incase. I don't know :( I'm going to see her shortly, so will see how she's doing.
She's going to be staying in the stable on rubber matting & shavings for the next few days so I've got the movement & hard ground covered.. Plus she will be having NO hay for a few days, just HiFi Lite, then I'll introduce very small amounts of hay, soaked & in haylage nets.
Not looking forward to keeping my 4yo in with her for that long :( She's going to be bouncing off the walls :/
And I think I know what you mean, but just clarify please.. What is ems? xxx
 
How much hi-Fi is your horse getting? A hay replacer amount or just feed? PLEASE do not starve your horse by just giving it as a feed. She needs soaked hay!

Please get the vet, Laminitis is serious. If you don't get it sorted she could have permanent damage to her feet.

I don't want to scare you but I speak from experience. One of mine got it so badly due to previously unsuspected Cushings (no signs at all other than very sudden lami) that we never got him right and he was put down last week :(
 
I've not heard hi fi lite is the best for lami horses. I soak my hay for 12hours+ and split into 3feeds for my grass intolerant horse here. If I were you I'd call the vet for help now, it'll cost you less in the long run x
 
I lost my beloved mare to laminitis last month. Please take it very seriously. Start feeding her hay soaked for at least 12 hours now. She will need bute and she will need to remain on boxrest. I am sure the advice is to keep them in on this diet for at least 2 weeks AFTER they come sound and have lost the pulses.
If you enforce box rest you will be able to get some weight off her and control her diet and sugar intake.
If her paddock has too much grass can you not cut and collect the cuttings to make it bare?
If you cannot afford to get the vet out ask you farrier to return in a week and get him to show you how to feel and read the foot pulses.
Watch the feed you give her, I only used Healthy Hooves and a supplement and pain meds. No carrots, no apples, no mollasses whatsoever Good luck.
 
Yes I have to agree if a horse has lami then it needs a vet really! Also I would feed soaked hay now and not the hi-fi. Well soaked hay is not going to increase the lami. Starving them is not really the way to treat it. Ems is similar to type 2 diabetes, so therefore they will always be very prone to weight gain and lami.
 
I to dont understand why you wont give her hay. That is what she needs to eat - soaked of course.

She does need the vet as she may need pain relief. But if you wont get the vet, please do take notice of the feed advice on here.

Feed soaked hay with a little Hifilite to carry vit and min supplement, pref with addition of magnesium supplement. Onlya little as it contains alfalfa which some think is unhelpful to lami cases.

Curvy horse needs to be no curvy horse oncethey have had lami. Vet can give you honest appraisal on this. Weightape daily/weekly. Gradual weight loss can be achieved by feeding 2-2.5% of current bodyweight per day. This iseasier when they are on box rest. Do not starve the horse lower than 1.5% a day under ny circumstances.

good luck - but please do involve the vet.
 
Hi, stressful times I know. From what you've said I wouldn't be confident you have a diagnoses to base your care regime on. Is it a throbbing digital pulse? Are you sure its laminitis type lameness? Firstly, if she were mine i would soak hay overnight and be feeding her that rather than hifi. Secondly, you could be saving yourself a lot of worry and expense getting the vet out now rather than waiting. If its not laminitis, you could be delaying treatment needed for something else. And if you're absolutely sure it is laminitis then you need the vet. Best of luck with your pony.
 
Firstly feed soaked hay. If its a metabolic lami then starving will make it worse.
Lami is a vet emergancy, treated too late can be serious.
 
PLEASE give your horse some well soaked hay to eat to keep things moving and healthy. If you are short on funds enough to not want the vet out then given the cost of high fi lite and the volume you would have to feed to replace hay, then you cannot be feeding your horse very much. Please dont do this, get some hay and the advice of a vet.
When I think of the pain my horse and I went through when he had laminitis, it brings tears to my eyes. Laminitis must be excruciatingly painful for them, they need some help with that in the form of pain killers.
If you were experienced in laminitis and been through it before with the help of a vet, then I would say fair enough, manage it carefully yourself, but from the sounds of it you have not. You need advice and guidance from a vet. Fingers crossed for a quick recovery.
 
My mare had acute laminitis a year ago. Had the vet straight out, was given lots of bute/sedalin and told to only feed hay that had been soaked for at least 12 hours and a small handful of Hifi for the medicine to go in. She was also not allowed to leave the stable for two weeks on vets orders and on a very thick bed and even after I did all that it was a very long road to recovery and she's still unable to go out full time.

Please call your vet and take laminitis seriously, I'm not well off and a vets bill was the last thing I needed but my vets will let you pay it off bit by bit!
 
LAMI IS AN EMERGENCY - GET THE VET OUT NOW !!!

It is your legal responsibility as a horse owner to ensure your horse gets the necessary veterinary care when it's needed, and I'm afraid that money is just not an excuse !
 
Hi guys, thanks for all your advice.
I'm feeding her plenty - she's having a hay-replacement amount of HiFi Lite, which my Mum dashed out to fetch yesterday when we discovered her shoes were not at fault. I am by no means starving her & she will be getting hay too as soon as some has been soaked long enough.
We have spoken to our vet & described her symptoms. From this, she thinks we've caught it early enough to avoid long-term damage and is coming to see her first thing in the morning - she couldn't get any earlier. She's explained the process & I'm happy that she's coming. I felt bad that I worried about the money, but I couldn't live with myself if something happened to her :( It's more of a problem because I also have to stable, feed & bed my 4yo mare too, as I doubt she'll stay out in the field on her own. But I'll just have to find a way to cope, that's what us horsey people do, right?
Also glad to say she's already looking brighter & happier this morning :)
Any further thoughts as to the effectiveness of grazing muzzles? She HATES being stabled & I would love her to be able to live out again in the summer xxx
 
Glad to hear she is feeling better. I would feed 12hr soaked hay rather than hi-fi lite if I were you. If you read the ingredients hi-fi-lite actually contains molasses and alfalfa which are two things you do not want to be feeding to a laminitic! I suspect that it gave my Welsh D laminitis last summer.

Personally I don't use a grazing muzzle and have a track instead because my horse refuses to wear a muzzle of any kind. However I know people who have had a lot of success preventing lami with them. My mare stays out overnight and just comes in for a few hours in the day so it can be done. You can also get an app for your phone which keeps an eye on the weather in your area (especially useful if you work indoors away from windows like me!) to tell you what the sugar levels are likely to be in the grass based on weather conditions.
 
Unbalanced, thankyou for some very helpful advice :)
I am however confused about this thing with HiFi Lite.. It's approved by the Laminitis Trust.. :s And our vet didn't seem to have a problem with it.. But I am going to introduce hay again & reduce her intake of HFL :)
I think she'll be okay wearing a grazing muzzle, so I think I'll try it when she's well enough to go back out :) If I keep fetching her in, she'll get very fed up. Obviously, if the muzzle isn't effective enough, I'll have to try alternatives.
I don't like the idea of splitting my girls up, as they are very fond of each other, but I have thought about splitting my fields up into even smaller paddocks than they are now & letting my 4yo graze down the longer grass before letting Little Miss Lami onto it.. Though I'm scared of getting it wrong again with the 4yo.. I've not been lax about my field management & can't believe this has happened this time.. Hating the uncertainty xxx
 
Also, the salt in the wounds:
My girls were only in the field which has given my 11yo lami because I moved them from the field they were currently grazing to get them away from an area of the field where 3 people's energizers were stolen :@ If they hadn't done that, I wouldn't have moved them early & this wouldn't have happened! And there's no chance of catching the theives :( xxx
 
Paigeous said:
Unbalanced, thankyou for some very helpful advice :)
I am however confused about this thing with HiFi Lite.. It's approved by the Laminitis Trust.. :s And our vet didn't seem to have a problem with it.. But I am going to introduce hay again & reduce her intake of HFL :)
x
Click to expand...

I was really confused as well. I figured it would be fine because it had the Laminitis Trust kitemark. However, basically that means that the feed company has made a donation to the Laminitis Trust to help them with their research (my trimmer explained that to me). It is the feed company not the Laminitis Trust who has tested and is responsible for the contents of the bag. My vet didn't really have a problem with it either. But I didn't really find that vets were that switched on to feeding - amazing about lameness, drugs and diagnostics, yes, feeding, no. My vet also told me to feed my pony 2 sec of hay a day which knowing what I know now I would not do, I would go for pretty much ad lib soaked hay. I think you have to read the ingredients yourself and know what you are feeding. I would avoid anything with molasses in like the plague. If you need a carrier for drugs I would go for a plain unmolassed chaff or speedibeet/kwikbeet which is also unmolassed (again, just a tiny amount as your horse doesn't need it for the feed value).

If you have a look at the barefoot threads they will give good advice on feeding which would be appropriate for a laminitic horse especially as your horse is now trying to grow a new hoof.
Good luck x
 
Hifi lite contains Alfafa, cereal straw, cane mollassses and mould inhibitor. Regardless of the statement on the bag it is not suitable for a laminitic horse IMO. I would use a tiny amount of allen and paige fast fibre to feed any bute or minerals and vitamins.
 
Hi

Is your horse insured? You may be able to claim the treatment for this bout of lami as this is the first occurance although obviously they will exclude it in the future. A friend on my yard is going through this at the moment and has been able to claim for everything including x rays as it is the first occurance.
 
Hmmm :/ The donation thing does make sense.. Though it's very disheartening. She will be getting less of it asap anyway & I will question my vet further in the morning. May be glued to the computer again tonight. I've become quite friendly with the staff at my local CWG, so may ask their advice on chaff too as they're always helpful & honest!
I will take a look at the barefoot threads later, must do some work now, before I get fired!
Thankyou very much for your help :) xxx
 
I agree with the others about the hi-fi lite - please stop feeding it and feed something like Alan and Page fast fibre if you need to feed her anything to carry supplements. Otherwise soaked hay. If you need her to lose weight then I would reccomend you restrict this to about 2% of her bodyweight (dryweight) until she is down to her ideal weight.

One supplement I would reccomend you add to her diet is magnesium. this is very usefull in helping the horse metabolise dietary sugars. she should also be on bute as a pain killer and anti -inflamitory until her symptoms subside.

She should not be moved at all until her symptoms have dissapeared. if indeed you have caught it early this could be as little as a week. after that, turnout should be increased very gradually and be on very minimal grass so I would suggest you use this time in between to get your youngster to much down a patch of grass for her.

I would try and allow your youngster some turnout on her own. she needs to become less dependent on company.

re being able to turn your lami mare out 24/7 in summer, it is perfectly feasible. she may have to go on restricted grazing for much of the time and you will have to increase her exercise to keep her weight strictly under control. If your other horse needs more grass then she should be allowed it but I would watch her very carefully as you could easily fall into the same boat with her. I would make sure both horses come out of winter on the lean side to give you a better chance of controling this in future.

I hope she makes a full recovery.
 
Hopefully your Vet will have had a look at your mare now and given you some bute and ACP.

Our mare was at the laminitis clinic for a few weeks following a very bad bout of laminitis, (pedal bone dropped through the sole). While she was there she was fed hay and two small feeds a day of hifi light and unmollased sugar beet slop. She was also given Farriers Formula. It took almost 12 months of box rest but she did come sound and remained sound for another 10 years.

I know feed regimes change constantly but the hifi lite did not cause problems for our girl.

Best of luck, laminitis is horrible but hopefully you have caught it early. I would try the grazing muzzle aproach
 
Kinnygirl1, she is insured & I am keeping an open mind about claiming for treatment. However, we do seem to have caught it early on & so the vets fees may not amount to more than my insurance excess anyway, fingers crossed.
CBFan, I will definitely look into the magnesium :) As for her turnout, we've been a bit fortunate, although we didn't feel it at the time. A part of one paddock that we used for winter was badly destroyed & still has bare patches of just mud, some weeds & very little grass - she'll be going on that patch when she does get turned out again & will still be wearing a grazing muzzle. As for the youngster, we've resolved to try her out on her own tonight. She has neighbours, so she should be fine & we're devising a rotation scheme of small paddocks so that she can graze a new paddock for the 11yo in advance & we can keep them moving. With the 11yo being 14.1hh & the 4yo being 17hh, she should manage to eat the grass down adequately for the 11yo to be turned out with a grazing muzzle, without being at risk herself.
Chestnut cob, I appreciate the enthusiasm & we have contacted our vet & booked a visit :)
Nettle123, I am sorry to hear about your mare :( But I am relieved that it's not just me who hasn't got something against HiFi Lite. I will be feeding her hay again very soon & therefore less feed anyway, but I will be sticking with HiFi Lite.
She actually doesn't seem to need to lose weight; she's not all that fat tbh. I think it's more a case of overeating, not obesity. That must be why it came on so suddenly.
Going to buy a grazing muzzle when I leave work!
 
your solution for turnout sounds perfect! and one that I used for my 17.2hh lami prone boy when we moved yards - trashed bit of ground, full of weeds - perfect for testing his tollerance of grass. Thankfully he seems ok with the grass at the new yard, although he's only allowed out for 12 hours at a time - MAXIMUM and is worked hard 5 days out of 7. He was not noticably overweight either when he came down with mild symptoms as I am very particular about is weight - just 48 hours on long lush grass was enough to do it but I have made a concious effort to stay on top of his waistline since and haven't had any further problems...

Please don't assume that because of your youngsters size she will be alright. the above should illustrate otherwise.

While you may not see / have a problem with feeding hi-fi lite, and of course it is your perogative to feed whatever you want, you have been rightfully advised, by people with first hand experience of trying to fathom out reasons for their horse's hoof sensitivity that it is not the best feed for a laminitic... despite what the feed company says and the 'laminitis trust approval'... people aren't being difficult... just stating the facts... owner feed knowledge has come on leaps and bounds over the last few years.

Good luck!
 
With regards to the insurance, even if you don't claim this time you still need to inform them that your horse has lammy, and it will be excluded on your next renewal. So it is in your best interest to claim this time, especially as you may need pergolide (prascend) or other drugs.

You really need your vet now, as at the very least the pony should be on bute, probably at least 2 a day for the next week.

With regards to the grazing muzzel, I believe that they cut down grass consumption by about 33%, so you will still need to restrict the amount of hours of turn out, until you get the cause of the lammie completly under control.

Good luck and fingers crossed for a good recovery.
 
I did hope others would think it's a good idea :)
And don't worry, I won't assume that my youngster is safe - I'm devastated that this has happened! I'd spent weeks carefully managing their grazing of another paddock, moved them for peace of mind from the thieves & was thwarted by relatively little grass - it had not long since been grazed. I will be even more vigilant from now on & become even more of a grass bore! :)
I'm not dismissing what people are saying, don't get me wrong. And I will be asking my vet if she feels that I can continue feeding HFL once she's seen my mare & assessed the seriousness of her lami :)
Thanks for the luck & the advice :) xxx
 
Paigeous said:
Hi guys,


How long must I wait before I can allow her a leg-stretch in a small paddock? The one I'm thinking of has quite a bit of grass in it but is a much shorter walk than her own & I am intending to buy a grazing muzzle tomorrow.. Would she be okay for half an hour with a muzzle while I muck out, or should I wait a while?
Click to expand...

Get something else to eat it down first.

We chuck anything badly overweight in a starvation paddock, or if can't be on that much grass, a patch which has been eaten down. Small amount of hay either end of day to keep system going.

Even if she's only out for half hour I'd have something else in there today/overnight first.

The other one could be in field with more grass next door, or in with her and pulled out for a feed if for a brief period?

I too would pull off hi-fi, may 'be approved' but is certainly not suitable imo!

Pan
 
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