laminitis xrays

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Annie&Amy

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My girl had her xrays today, showed slight rotation in one foot and sunk pedal bones in both!! Vet thinks i should continue treatment, want her to have remedial trimming and go on methisal supplement and cont. box rest and bute. Did say if she gets it again poor prognosis and the fact that she's a cob so heavier is a worry. I'm very worried about her, any thoughts!!! xxxx
 
Sorry
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If you've read my threads then you'll know the score. My girl had no rotation in the first xrays, then the week before she died she had slight rotation in both and separation in one foot. No sinking. Then a week later she became a sinker and the sole on her BEST foot collapsed. Then, hours afterwards, the sole cracked up and the bone was about to come through. We made the heartbreaking decision to end her pain before there was catastrophy and the bone came completely through.

I really, really hope your mare pulls through. Keep fighting until she tells you to stop (if she does). Mine was a heavy cob and she showed less discomfort than is normal in a sinker (vet's words). She was still happy and bright and so we were still pushing with all our might for some miracle cure. But the day she was PTS it was just a case of it being enough is enough, for her and us - she was laid down most of the day, rolling onto her side and then sitting up every half hour or so to look around, eyes going sleepy and withdrawn despite no sedation, head on our chests. The vet (aussie man) cried, the farrier cried, we sobbed our hearts out. She was peaceful and never distressed.

I really really really wish you the best in all this. Have courage and be brave - those two things will get you through this whatever the outcome.
 
PS, our vet and we consulted with Robert Eustace who said there was no chance for her apart from major surgery which has extremely slim chance of working in horses with 1.4-1.5m founder (that is consider dangerous). Our mare had 1.6 and 1.8
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The vet initially considered rubber tubing to stop the cracking but Robert Eustace said not a chance with this mare. The journey would have been agony for her, she'd have needed a person sat with her and a very deep straw bed int he trailer, the bone would probably have come through due to the journey so no guarantee she'd have got there. She'd have been there 3-6 months with the high likelihood that even after a successful op, she'd get recurrance because there was obviously something underlying with her that was preventing recovery and causing continual recurrence. She'd have been away from us, her horsey friends, her home, her normal vet and farrier and wouldn't see us as much. If she was PTS there's the likelihood we couldn't have been there and our other horse wouldn't get closure.

We decided that she'd gone through enough and the vet agreed that in her case, the surgery was probably nothing more than an experiment and was unlikely to even touch it. Robert Eustace was also very cautious.

I would suggest talking to Robert NOW. He's amazing and will give it to your straight. But I do stress that time is of the essence. Time didn't play nicely with us as everything happened so quickly, and even with time I doubt she'd have been saved because I feel there was underlying metabolic probs (despite clear blood tests and the laminitis being caused initially by infection).

Anyway, I felt I should let you know you're not alone. Lots of people here been through similar and are fantastically supportive. It's a long, tough road from this position. Good luck.x
 
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My girl had her xrays today, showed slight rotation in one foot and sunk pedal bones in both!! Vet thinks i should continue treatment, want her to have remedial trimming and go on methisal supplement and cont. box rest and bute. Did say if she gets it again poor prognosis and the fact that she's a cob so heavier is a worry. I'm very worried about her, any thoughts!!! xxxx

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you tell us more about her history and age, breed, height ...

STRICT Box rest on a thick shavings bed of 9" plus is a good starter ..
 
She's 24yrs old. medium/heavyweight cob, 15.2hh. Never had laminitis but has had navicular when she was much younger.

History wise, she was shod 6 weeks ago, two days later she was sore on right fore which i put down to possibly having pulled something. She did struggle when she was being shod which she hasn't done before but i just thought she was finding it hard standing on three legs (she is also arthritic), she didn't improve so got vet out who thought it was probably a abscess so she cut hoof away but couldn't find anything so said poultice and box rest. Poultice produced nothing so after a week said turn back out in the hope that moving around would burst it. Two days later she couldn't move so got vet out (different vet) she gave her finadyne i/v so we could get her back to stable. She is on thick bed of shavings, soaked hay and bute (can't get her below one twice a day) and she was on acp for first week. She'll of been in three weeks tomorrow. Had xrays this morning, didn't want to pick up left fore this morning cause sore to stand on right.

Vet that came to do xrays (again different vet) said to continue with everything but couldn't say how long she would be in for but she did say that because of her being a cob it is riskier due to weight on feet (vet said she's not overweight but she's a cob ie chunky build) and if she got another attack bad prognosis.

I'm not prepared at her age to put her through months and months of box rest only to be able to go out for a few hours as she's meant to be having a nice retirement with me (i've had her since she was 19 and she's been in a riding school all her live) i'd rather call it a day now. She's coping ok in stable but she's bored and depressed, her great mate who's 32yr misses her. I'm going to speak to second vet tomorrow as i trust her, just want to know what chance she has. I wouldn't put her through surgery and she is terrified of travelling so wouldn't want to take her anywhere. Also and this comes last in the list but she isn't insured (due to age and navicular they wouldn't of covered laminitis) and i havn't got a bottomless pit of money. xxxx
 
I'm really sorry to hear this
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I agree that you need to have The Talk with your vet. There is no point in carrying on if she isn't going to have a good life afterwards; as you said it's her retirement and it's not fair on her to have her lead a confined life from now on. I am glad you are taking a practical, sensible view on the matter; she will appreciate it I'm sure.
Get your vet's opinion on whether to continue and let us know what the outcome is, good luck
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I spoke to vet this morning after a really awful night. She said if it was her horse she would give her a chance, she thinks she'll be much improved after remedial trimming and should be able to get bute down enough to exercise her and start turning her out for short periods. She said the farrier will be able to tell if she'll recover. She may need heartbar shoes. She said once she can go back out normally it would be a case of out at night with muzzle on and in during day when sugar levels higher.

She said obviously if she gets it again the bone will sink further each time xx
 
I think you are doing the right thing. If your horse is still 'there', as in bright and happy then keep pushing. It was slightly different for us as we had 3000 vets fees on the insurance, but we still would not have put her through surgery. The problem was that as a heavy cob she had one mild attack, then a second attack causing rotation and separation and then last Tuesday a third attack. By Thursday the hoof had cracked and on Friday she was telling us to let go of her. So we did. She had not had any sinking until last Tuesday/Wednesday. Robert Eustace said there was very little chance, even with surgery, so we called it a day, which was heartbreaking, especially as she was only just 15, but it was the right thing.

Robert also said that even if by the smallest of small chances that the surgery was successful and she didn't then go on to have another attack (likely due to stress of being away etc), then she'd possibly only ever be grass sound for the rest of her life.

Whatever happens I wish you every bit of luck I have, and hope she pulls through. This is such an evil disease and I'm afraid I'm becoming a bit of a rallier against fat horses at my yard!!! It's only a week since she died! Best wishes.x
 
Sorry the sole had cracked* When we looked at her feet when she'd gone (they'd been re-poulticed the night before, by the vet), the bone was right there ready to come through. Absolute catastrophy that would have been. It all happened so quickly - she went from a horse with an infection to a mild laminitic to a chronic laminitic to a sinker in the space of 6 weeks. She was much better on the Monday night and by Tuesday she was a sinker!
 
<font color="blue"> she thinks she'll be much improved after remedial trimming and should be able to get bute down enough to exercise her and start turning her out for short periods. </font>
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No, no, no, no, NO!
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You DO NOT move the horse from its stable until it is freely spinning around in the box SYMPTOM FREE for a fortnight AFTER bute is stopped and then try carefully on concrete. Once your horse is sound on concrete WITHOUT BUTE for a month (without setbacks) then gentle exercise may be resumed. Much failure of laminitis management is due to horses being returned to work/old feeding practices and turnout resumed WAY too early
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The hoof inside has destabilised and you need to wait for NEW GROWTH to be a greater percentage that the destroyed part and all inflamation to subside. Like picking a cup up when the glue which you stuck the handle on with hasn't set properly - it looks OK but won't hold. SO MUCH much damage can be done by moving the horse while the hoof is unstable and you risk making matters from worse to catastrophic by doing anything until a sustained period of improvement is seen with no painkillers being given.

Either you misinterpreted what the vet said or you need a new vet.

try www.johnthevet.co.uk and www.safergrass.org for starters. I wish you luck as if you do it right, your chances of success are much improved.

Carrie knows how quickly things can suddenly deteriorate and recovery is a lengthy and uncertain process.

It need not be all gloom and doom but it's worth a shot. I know and so does Eaglestone
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<font color="blue">you could consider hydrotherapy to help relive pain and also swimming as a non weight bearing form of exercise to get weight off. </font>

Oh yes but once the horse has stabilsed totally (and without painkillers) enough to cope with the stress of travel and swimming!
 
I do know that, to be honest i was so tired when i wrote that post i could of written anything. I spent all night fretting what was the best thing to do for her.
I know that until she's on no bute at all i can't bring her out of stable and when she is finally off bute i'll wait two weeks before i start bringing her out.
She is being so good although she is feeling better and is trying to make a break for it now when i muck her out xxxx
 
<font color="blue">and is trying to make a break for it now when i muck her out xxxx
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That's exactly how we know when ours is feeling better!

Keep her shut in, soak her hay to within a fraction of its life and get some rest. Your head needs to be clear and she'll take no harm while you get yourself rested and composed.

Take a fresh look when you feel calmer and read up some more - you may well glean a small tip or bit of information which makes everything a whole lot better.

I don't think you can really 'do' much more than you are right now. Laminitis management is far more 'don't' than anything!

I hope your efforts and worry are worth it - I have my fingers crossed for you both x
 
Thanks, i'm feeling much better today and more positive about it all. She's been good again today and farrier coming next week to do her first trim after which hopefully i can start trying to cut bute down again. I've brought her some laminaze supplement which may not do any good but vet said it was ok to try it.

She is still only on soaked hay and small amount of happy hoof with bute in plus sugar free polos as treats. Can i start giving her some more happy hoof? Vet said when she first saw her only enough to put bute in but that was three weeks ago and i forgot to ask her yesterday xxx
 
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