Laminitis

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Taisypops

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Hi folks I used to use this forum a while back but due to various reasons havent been able to come on for a while....anyways ive got broadband again and I was after some advice for my wee mare. She came down with Laminitis last May, was a very painful acute attack caused by "I think" her being too heavy. She was on a yard with massive fields and very good grass.....we have since moved to a yard with more suitable grazing and she was in great form over the winter. However this spring/summer has been awful, no really painfull acute attacks thankfully, but she seems to be feeling her feet more than she isnt! She sees a good farrier, wears hearbars, is fed soaked hay and only gets out for between one and two hours a day in a small pen with very little grass! Anybody got any hints/tips/ideas on how I can keep her sound? Thanks :) x
 
I am surprised she is still in heartbars, my farrier, if he has to use them, likes to get them out of them as soon as he can, he sees them as a correction to the foot balance and to help with pedal bone rotation once they have done the job they should be able to come off.
More exercise would help stimulate the hoof to grow stronger, obviously if she is sore this is difficult but could she go out for longer each day. What supplements are you feeding to support her feet?

My laminitic had a bad attack in one foot, he had an abscess in the other one and putting all his weight on one side caused a real flare up, he had heartbars on for about 3 weeks and has since been barefoot with very regular trims, sometimes every 3 weeks, he gradually went out for longer periods, now he is back on full day turnout and in proper work, aiming for his first competition in nearly 2 years.
 
Have you had her checked for insulin resistance / cushings?? As of she is still feeling it on what you are doing then it could be something metabolic.
How old is she?
It might be worth getting a weight tape and agreeing on a weight with our vet to keep her at which is what I have done with my IR lami.
 
Last year after her first attack she had two sets of heartbars then she was back in normal shoes, farrier put them back on this year when it flared up again, this is her second set and the farrier is due back up again on thursday. Was thinking of maybe discussing a gel pad between shoes and feet for her. She was blood tested for an endocrine cause but they all came back normal! She isnt anywhere near fat anymore and she weight tapes at about 440kg. Shes an 11 year 15hh welsh sec d, Ive owned her for two years and as far as Im aware she hasnt had it previous to me owning her. My vet advised me not to give her any supplements in case its something to do with her system being overloaded!! Im so confused about the whole thing, the more I learn about it the more confused I get. All I want to do is whats best for her and there is so much conflicting info!! She is still exercised, vet and farrier said it was best for her to be ridden to keep her circulation going, she is mainly just being hacked just now as I dont want to push her too much until her feet are better. Anyone got any experience with magnetic bell boots and lami, I currently use magnetic brushing boots and they seem to help. x
 
Here are some recent pics of her showing her condition

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Wouldnt say she looks overweight at all!
Your doing exactly the same as im doing with my gelding, who got lami at the same time as yours.
He cant tolerate grass anymore at all, becomes footy if left an extra 10 minutes longer!
 
Taisypops said:
Here are some recent pics of her showing her condition

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She looks good (thos neck does look a little cresty if i must be honest.) can you feel her ribs easily? and see them when she moves? thats how i have to keep my lami who is 15.1 and weights in as 420 on my weight tape. vet said he can go up to 430 but i want the 10 to play with as with spring gras they can go up and down. My lami couldnt cope without heart bars he needs the support. He had it bad tho a 15 degree rotation in both front feet.

It might be worth getting another fasting bloods done to check her insulin and cushings just to rule it out. If she is footy i wouldnt do any hard ground work as the concussion wont be helping (you can get concussion lami).

also you could have a abcess brewing so putting pads on could make her more in pain......am current praying for puss out of my lamis hoof as he has gone lame on one of his again after the last year being sound:mad:
 
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Thats why the farrier was reluctant to put the pads on, if anything else goes worng with their feet they cripple them apparently Yea she dpes have a wee bit of a crest but shes always been cresty, she was very fat when I got her (as in 600kg) and the crest seem to be the hardest fat to shift. She was xrayed about 3 months ago and there was only slight roataion in her right foot which is the one she feels. The fasting bloods were only taken about three months ago, so would there be any point in getting them done again? If so Ill do it, however im throwing money at her left right and centre so I prefer to avoid any unnecessary costs.

I am aware that horse can get concussive lami, stress lami, steroid lami etc but im pretty sure its the grass....as when shes off the grass she comes sound but she becomes very difficult to ride when she is stabled all the time. If she does need to be off the grass all the time would hard standing on concrete be liklely to make her footy? We do have a hard standing area on the farm. We only have road hacking and im not willing to stand her in a stable without turn out or any hacking exercise, imo its not a life for a horse.....if it was only short term we would deal but its looking like this is going to be her now.

Does anyone have a horse who cant be on grass? If so how do you manage them?
 
I think one or two people on here horses can't be on grass at all.

If she was that big when you got her you have done fab. In the first year I had the fasting bloods done every three months.

Did your bet say how close her insulin was to the outer edge of okay? 20 is the limit of okay and my lami's was just under at 19. Something. He is now 2. Something so he was quite close to the limit. Maybe discuss with your vet.

What about putting her out on the lowest auger time in the morning I.e first in the morning and then as late at night for an hour-two hours? If you are able to do it.
 
The grass thing is tricky. Like previously said, mines the same. My yard doesnt have a 'mud' paddock to turn out in but i do have use of a bare starvation paddock. At various times of the year he has to stay off the grass, hes ridden everyday and he goes on the walker. It may seem mean to some but he just cant cope. The more hes in, the more i ride him.
 
Thanks folks, I think she might end up being an off the grass pony too :( Do you think she will settle and get use to it eventually? She got herself so stressed the other night out a hack that she gave herself a nose bleed! Stress is also a worry for her feet. Ive advertised for a sharer for her who would ideally be able to ride her during the day as I can only go up at night after work. x
 
Taisypops said:
Here are some recent pics of her showing her condition

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she is gorgeous I want her (love duns)
I would not agree with the idea about the supplements
for example formula4feet is ok as is flexi joint - laminator - soyal oil etc

It depends what reason you need A supplements is it for feet circulation skin or as a preventative?

I have pm'd you
 
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The actual quality of her feet isnt too bad. Just something that would decrease the likelihood of her getting it. Have heard Apple cider vinegar is good?? Have also heard thet cinamon can improve circulation?? Im kinda at the stage that Im scared to give her anything new though :( x
 
I did actually feed cinnamon as i heard it boosted the metobolism into loosing weight..he did loose weight but i think that was more due to the exercise! He came off it quite a few months ago and i havnt noticed a differnce to be honest!
A sharer sounds a plan, mines ridden everyday and its tiring along side a full time job..
 
Hmm...interesting about the cinamon. She gets ridden at least once every day between either myself or a girl at the yard who mucks out for rides, but its not enough to keep her sane :( So hopefully Ill find someone who can ride her late morning to break up her pony day.......Its such a horrible thing....I dont like it :( x
 
Taisypops said:
Thanks, so can I only give her this for a year? Where is the best place to get it in the uk and how much does it cost? x
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Your vet applies for a license, once approved you get enough for 7 months then you reapply for it the next year

its best to apply in march so you should get it ready for april so then your covered for the lami season.


Ask you vet to apply directly contact them with any questions they are really helpful

once approved your 7 months worth gets sent to your vet then you pay it is pricey around £ 280 ish for 7 months but I can't risk my horse without it. She ate it no problem you hardly give any 2.75 g thats all for a `16 hh mare
 
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Cool thanks, Ill speak to my vet. You think its worth getting it for whats left of this year? Or should I just keep going and try again with this stuff next year? x
 
Sorry to keep pestering you with questions....but have you been able to manage your horse differently when on this stuff? Ie more turnout? x
 
Taisypops said:
Cool thanks, Ill speak to my vet. You think its worth getting it for whats left of this year? Or should I just keep going and try again with this stuff next year? x
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personaly no I would leave it as otherwise you will run out in april which you don't want as thats the start of lami season.


I would ask you vet to make sure they will get a license. Then I would apply in feb or march .

My vet recommended Protexin gut balancer which I am about to order for the first time till our next license

http://www.protexin.com/equine-retail word of mouth from a livery on it too.
 
thanks for your advice, Ive used protexin before with a previous horse who had a dodgy tummy, Ill get some of that till next spring then ill sort out the other stuff with my vet x
 
We used to use the magnetic wraps on my old pony. They were just bandages by Premier Equestrian that helped her blood flow, we also used frog supports which took the strain off the back of her hoof when she had it badly.
 
Some horses can only tolerate low levels of sugar and starch in the diet. Grass, especially improved grassland can be far too rich for a lot of horses, particularly when cereals or molasses are present in the diet. It also fluctuates massively from day to day, throughout the growing season. This has a massive effect on the metabolism.
Also, Welsh cobs appear to be predisposed to insulin resistance, which complicates the issue.
With regard to Founderguard, it was developed in Australia for horses eating lots of cereal, it is basically an anti biotic used as a growth promoter in livestock. For many reasons I'd avoid it as it is expensive and unethical to name but two.
The only effective way of dealing with the problems described is to reduce the sugar content of the diet, even if it means removing grass from the diet altogether or during times when the horse is at most risk.
 
taisy i have p m'd you
;)

You make up your own mind Taisy Founderguard does work. Give them a ring they are very helpfull in answering your questions.

It is NOT what its being accused of ;)
 
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You can manage lami without wasting money on expensive feed suppliments!!
Proper management will help massively. By that i mean proper exercise and a proper feeding routine! Limit all sugars and feed a good soaked hay. I dont limit my boys hay at all and hes still loosing the weight
 
BlackVelvet said:
You can manage lami without wasting money on expensive feed suppliments!!
Proper management will help massively. By that i mean proper exercise and a proper feeding routine! Limit all sugars and feed a good soaked hay. I dont limit my boys hay at all and hes still loosing the weight
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She is only fed soaked hay and she is exercised at least once a day (I work full time 50 miles from my house) so unless someone can take her out in the morning for me I can only mange once a day :( until I manage to find a sharer. I need ro restrict my mares hay a bit as she will gain a few kilos if it totally ad lib!! I am just really keen to try anything that means she can go out in the field with all the other horses.......as yet i an undecided about this founderguard stuff.......but if it meant her quality of life would improve I wouldnt mind the cost....x
 
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