laminitis

J

JM07

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a case of neglect...or "they will get it anyhow"??

so, can lammi be avoided with carefull, knowledgable management....or will some get it regardless??

debate i had this evening with a few friends...

my arguement was, in 30 yrs of owning ponies/horses not one i've owned, has succumbed to lammi...
i put this down to good horse management.

i think i'm right...in saying lammi IS avoidable.....

any other comments????
 
I agree with you. Lammi is avoidable. I bought a pony 2 years ago who was a terrible lammi sufferer. I dint know to what extent and within 4 weeks of me owning her she got it. When she had recovered she was on a strict daily regime and since then she hasnt hasd lammi since. Last year was the first full summer she hasnt suffered a bout.
Lammi is avoidable and isnt a case of they will get it anyhow - great management is needed for a lammi
 
I agree to an extent. However, Murph was pts due to cushing's-related lami - no matter what we did or how hard we tried, it recurred. And we did EVERYTHING.
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In the grass/diet-related cases though, i think the vast majority are probably preventable.
It's just one of them "what if's..." or "if only we'd done this..."

Lou. x
 
I had a 11.2hh pony who had very slight laminitus at 4yo . so he had to go in the starvation paddack... I had some one look at him some years later with a view to loan, she said it was cuel in a starvation paddock (half acre only). he needs some grass!! Her friend said no this is the way he needs to be kept. (he was still fat on this). She wanted the pony on loan but i declined and said i thought it wasnt suitable for her child..... yes with carefull control you can prevent it. I have a little shetland in the barn now as the grass is getting rich. he will go in the starvation paddock when i feel the others have eaten it all up.....
 
your case is totally different - i really feel for you. RIP Murph
I think RHT is meaning cases brough on by negligence or people not thinking how it can affect the pony.
 
Yes I would totally agree with you RHT. I've also never, in all my years, had any horses or ponies come down with laminitis when they were in my care. When our little pony got it, whilst we were out of the country, when we flew home to her we managed to turn what was a "death's door" scenario into us still having our little girl with us....and she has never had another bout since.

So yes I think in most cases careful management can work....the problem comes from buying a pony that has had laminitis...once a laminitic always a laminitis....as the saying goes. As I found out this isn't exactly true; however I'd never encourage someone with little experience to go down this route if it is at all avoidable - hence my endless comments of "no don't buy it".
 
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your case is totally different - i really feel for you. RIP Murph
I think RHT is meaning cases brough on by negligence or people not thinking how it can affect the pony.

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indeed............
 
i am talking bog standard, ponies/horses contracting lammi due to, IMO, poor management....
this was the basis of tonights conversation...

and i still believe, that, 75% of the cases of lammi are due to mis-management.
 
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your case is totally different - i really feel for you. RIP Murph
I think RHT is meaning cases brough on by negligence or people not thinking how it can affect the pony.

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Thank you. Yeah, i assumed that was what was meant, but i just needed to clarify.
We own a little welsh A who is a prime candidate for lami, and at times i feel cruel with the muzzles, no feeds, socked-to-death hay, bald paddocks, etc, but at the end of the day, lami is a pretty horrific thing to have to go through (for both the horse/pony and the owner), so it's all worth it in the long run.

Just out of curiosity, have wild horses ever been known to get it?

Lou. x
 
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Just out of curiosity, have wild horses ever been known to get it?

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I believe so. When I was sitting out here waiting to catch the plane back to England to see my little girl; I did a heap of research and found that yes it is fairly certain that wild horses do get it...however because they travel many miles each day the constant movement keeps it at bay and never allows the horse to become too badly affected. They also change their diet frequently because of their movements - this also helps them.
 
I have known one or two horses develop it from cortizone injections - think that is not management. We had one pony (welsh section A) get lammi in our first year of owning he never had it again and that was 22 years ago. It was a struggle as we live on a dairy farm but he had a mud patch and he was fine!
 
i'm not sure...not in the "intense" way domestics get "it"...

"wild" horses would, obviously, burn off/not consume as much sugar/protien concentrate as a domestic animal...so therefore, IMO, the wild horse wouldn't suffer "laminitis" in the same way as a "domestic"...

interesting point to discuss/research further.......
 
That's really interesting, thank you tia.
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I was always told they didn't, but i could never see why. I know their grazing is pretty rough most of the time, but they still have access to spring grass and everything so....

I still wish i had a horse that needed to be fed and could have access to nice grazing without me having to worry about it getting fat / lami. We've had to ask our YO to not fertilise the fields this year! He was more than happy to oblige - saves him some money!
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I'll try and find the link for you - it was a few years ago but I'm sure there must still be something out there on it as I'm pretty sure it was a vet paper I read.
 
probably not in the way the horses/ponies nowadays get it because they dont have the access to the type of grasses we do. They have a varied diet and dont live on lush grass.

My pony is muzzled 24/7 in the summer. Im not a fan but shes happier being out with her mates rather than stable on her own. Shes happy then im happy. I hate seeing ponies with lammi - they look so unhappy and in pain. It must be a dreadful thing to cope with
 
Laminitis is just inflammation of the laminae...if due to overfeeding then yes, can be prevented/managed.
But IMHO if due to stress/concussion/lameness in other limb/problems in pregnancy and afterwards/hormone imbalances/Cushings then it can't always be prevented and owners shouldn't mentally beat themselves up.
We can only do our best.....
S
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RHT was really concentrating on the cases that are caused by negligence
[ QUOTE ]
i am talking bog standard, ponies/horses contracting lammi due to, IMO, poor management....
this was the basis of tonights conversation...

and i still believe, that, 75% of the cases of lammi are due to mis-management.

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Definately think obesity-induced laminitis is on the increase and think that is partly because too many people treat their ponies like their child and don't want to deny it all it wants. In other words - 30yrs ago people would put their pony in it's diet paddock all summer, without hard feed and give it regular decent exercise - i.e think nothing of hacking 7 miles to a Pony Club rally.

Nowadays some people think it cruel to put fat ponies in bare paddocks, insist on feeding it the same as a Thoroughbred and think exercise is a walk 1 mile up the road!
 
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cushings related lammi is, IMO, a totally different case.....

[/ QUOTE ] The trouble is a lot of Cushings cases go undiagnosed for a long time and it is quite a common condition (I read that one in ten horses over twenty have the condition).

Yes, there is always going to be the ignorant person who leaves a fat pony in a field of lush grass, or the person who thinks their good doer needs buckets of competition mix whilst doing no work, and yes these cases are entirely preventable.

But additionally, I have known lots of cases of laminitis occur where owners have been taking very sensible precautions. I must say my thoughts were similar to your own before I took on a lami pony. No worries, I thought, I know how to prevent laminitis, this won't be a problem. However, whilst in my care she was never overweight, never fed cereals and never on lush grass but still had lami attacks, and of course it turned out she was Cushingoid.
 
I also wanted to add that vets are now talking a lot about insulin resistance and Equine Metabolic Syndrome as triggers for laminitis. These animals are much more likely to get laminitis than others, due to the way their bodies deal with soluble carbohydrates, so you can have several horses on the same grazing and getting the same feed but only one will go down with lami.
 
There are many causes of laminitis - not just bad management. I have one with Cushings, who got laminitis because of having the disease. Now that we know he has Cushings, he is managed very carefully and (touching wood firmly) has not had an attack of laminitis for well over a year. Stress can cause laminitis, so can concussion, foaling, etc.
 
Agree with you.

However, in my case, I bought my girl Boo having been promised she had never once had laminitis. Obviously we were careful with her weight but she ended up getting it in January.
After a vet visit he said that she most definitely had had it before and this case was brought on by the frost releasing fructins in the grass. She had a VERY mild bout in 2005 also frost related, but was only in for a day and did not appear lame - just slight heat in her foot.

Our shettie came to us with severe laminitis 2 years ago and has not had it since.
 
I once had a horse who rolled and got stuck under the post and rail fencing (after all the cost of putting in P&R thinking it was safest option and despite the fact that there were only 2 horses in a 4 acre field, but thats horses for you!) Anyway it was some time before she was found and the fencing taken down. Next day she went down with stress laminitus. After that she was a nightmare for getting it eg she even got it in January (when not on grass!) I know this is a bit different because it wasnt obesity that caused it, but after they get it once its really hard to avoid it recurring no matter how hard you try to manage them.
 
Well, this is a very sore point with me today - only last night, my horse was diagnosed with actute laminitis, which seems to have been brought on by some underlying metabolic issue. He was blood tested before Xmas for insulin resistance / Equine Metabolic Syndrome, and the tests came back inconclusive....I think my vet thought I was being paranoid, and was very reluctant to take my concerns seriously or do any other tests, so I made the decision to manage him as if he was a laminitic. Since then, he's been on very restricted grazing (stabled and a starvation paddock), on 12-24 hour soaked hay, I've removed sugars as much as poss from his diet, kept his weight down with diet and exercise, and supplemented his meagre diet with laminitis-prevention vits/mins, etc.....and still he had an attack in both front feet and possibly one back foot.

He's now on box-rest (much to his disgust!) and on enough bute and ACP to fell an elephant (was going nuts in the stable!).........poor fella!
 
I agree to a point. However laminitis can be brought on by things other than simply too much grass. When I see ponies in massive grassy fields then I do think its neglect and it drives me nuts because its laminitis just WAITING to happen.

Some ponies DO get it regardless however. My pony got it 15 years ago. He was never on much grass at all (in fact was on a small paddock with basically dirt!) and was kept slim and fit. I did a lot of hacking back then when he came down with it. My vets think it was concussive. I guess it could have been avoided by not trotting on the roads (and I never have done since!!) but lots of people trot on the roads all the time so its hardly neglect or bad management.

Also, another one of mine got lami when out on loan. She has been getting it mildly all through the winter until now. She'll be galloping about one minute then be hobbling the next. I am extremely careful about her grass intake, weight and nutrition yet she still seems to come down with it sometimes. However I think she may have cushings which would explain it....... So I dont think you can say that EVERY laminitis can be kept away, sadly other things can lead to it.

I believe only the usual laminitis caused by ponies being too fat and left on too much grass is genuine neglect as this is avoidable.
 
There are a number of causes of Laminitis and one that is not widely known is caused by emerging encysted Red Worms whic can not be detected by worm counts. It is therefore very important to regularly worm for these worms.
As regards horses with Cushings Disease one can give them a 250 microgram tablet of Pergoliode each day which helps to prevent them getting it.
 
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