Laminitus in the larger horse - any experiences? (sorry long)

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Maloo

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Right - ready for a long one - here I go......

My Mare (Moo) went down with laminitus 3 weeks ago which was/is pretty horrible - now before you all shout me down for having an unfit obese horse and that its all my fault let me explain..... Moo is a 'large lass' (ID x) she is a good doer so is on minimal feed (High fibre cubes) stabled in the day and out at night (with hay) on a very sparse paddock and up until the attack was working alongside either the pointer or eventer every day to keep her weight down. I have had her 10 years never had any hint of laminitus before, so when she went lame it wasnt the first thing to go through my head, however I brought her into the stable to monitor and from being lame on one front foot on the friday she was lame on both feet on saturday - so called farrier (he lives practically next door) and he checked and yup its lamintus, called vet out and she also confirmed..... so Moo has been on box rest for 3 weeks - on bute for 2 weeks and yesterday I wanted to give her stable a good going over so led her outside to tie up and was surprised to see that she is still 'pottery' when turning.... so after speaking to the vet again its back on bute and farrier calling by to give her more support....

BTW The Vet did say that she had seen several 'teenage' horses with laminitus in October and that the weather has been affecting their natural steriod levels also as she is a mare (and a tart) she could be coming in season again and that can be a factor in the cause.

So has anyone else had a large horse with laminitus they could share their experience as I've only ever come across it in ponies.... (and I have been on the Laminitus Trust website and scared myself silly convinced myself that as a draught horse she may not recover)....

Thanks in advance as in all the time I have had Moo she has never been ill or lame (she is lovingly referred to as the Tonka Toy as she is almost indestructable - well against the TBs she has been!)
 
It is a myth that laminitis only affects ponies. ANY horse can get it but natives and good doers are more prone by nature.
First of all you need to find out the exact cause if possible as without that it is very difficult to treat.
While in pain ie lame/pottery/strong pulse the horse must be kept on box rest if at all possible. Do not bring the horse out even to muck out. While lame, the laminae are weak and movement can result in rotation of the pedal bone. From experience , it is advisable to keep the horse on box rest for approx a month after it is sound on no painkillers to give the laminae time to heal properly.
My laminitic had Imprints which helped and had the above care and is now sound and back in work.
I found this website very useful:
http://www.laminitisclinic.org/

Good luck and I hope your mare recovers fully
 
We had an id/tb that developed laminitus when she was 7. It was very serious and she ended up after 3 months box rest being admitted at the Laminitis clinic. She had to have a dorsal resection on both her fronts and was on box rest for virtually 12 months.

She became completely sound and was ridden for another 10 years after the original diagnosis.

Presumably she is on a deep bed to help support her feet. If she was mine I would be looking to have her x rayed. We did not do this quickly enough tbh. Without knowing exactly where the pedal bone is going its impossible to assess the case. We had our girl xrayed and then referred them to the Lami Clinic. Hope this helps
 
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It is a myth that laminitis only affects ponies. ANY horse can get it but natives and good doers are more prone by nature.


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Yes it is a myth and I believe laminitis is common in Racehorses too.
Diet seems to be a big underlying issue, here's links to a yahoo group and website of a lady who is very knowledgeable about laminitis and she sends out diet sheets to help you.
www.MetabolicHorse.co.uk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheMetabolicHorse

I wish you the best and my advice is arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can...
 
Thanks MrMeldrew - yes I now understand that its a myth it only affects ponies, and yes along with Vet and farrier have tried to find exact cause - we are all mystified. Mare was bought out of the box for the 1st time in 3 weeks as she 'appeared' to be ok - the pulse felt back to normal - thats why I was surprised when she seemed pottery.

I have looked at length at the laminitus trust website and as I said in my original post I managed to scare myself silly as according to them the prognosis for draught horses is not good. This is the reason for my post to see if anyone else had any experience of dealing with a larger horse and laminitus.
 
Nettle123 thanks for that and yes she is on a lovely deep shavings bed which is on top of rubber mats. Will also speak to the vet re x-rays to see where we are (thank heavens for insurance)
 
A couple more links for you Maloo. Hope it's not too much info as it does get a bit mind boggling.
http://www.hoofrehab.com/LaminitisUpdate.htm
http://www.unshod.co.uk/articles.php

ps. Are you soaking her hay? Hay can be high in sugar and Autumn is also a time when grass is likely to be higher in sugars. Also think if anything else has changed... have you moved yards etc. stopped a mineral supplement. Mineral deficiency and imbalance is another common factor especially in some areas a deficiency of magnesium.
 
Thank you for those links - alot of food for thought there - think I will need to read them a couple of times to take it all in.

As to any changes - no she is kept at home and the diet hasnt changed - but after speaking to the vet made a slight change to her miniscule feeds - she was on a handful of 'Just Grass' with her high fibre cubes am and pm so now switching to Hi Fi lite just in case the level of sugar in the dried grass is a contributing factor.

I havnt been soaking her hay (she has a habit of 'dunking' it herself) but will have a go and see what differenct that makes.

Thanks for the suggestions!
 
I have one pony who has had laminitis and need to watch. I have an emergency lami feed plan now which is no grass, free choice soaked hay min of one hour but preferably 12 hours, good balancer (Top spec anti lam or comprehensive) and magnesium oxide. The magnesium is not always necessary but make sure there are no sugary treats,carrots etc. or polos!! Funny but some people forget how much treats can affect a horse.
 
I just found our mares feed plan when she came back for the lami clinic.

2 feeds a day, each feed 1.1lbs hi fi light and 1 and 1/2 x a 2 pint jug soaked sugar beet

Her hay ration was 4lbs morning, lunchtime and evening (unsoaked) . She also had farriers formula which I believe has now been upgraded to formula4feet

Its good that you are insured, sadly we weren't !, I would definately push for the xrays.

I think our mare was nearly as bad as it gets as the pedal bone split the sole but she recovered so think positive.
 
No I haven't used it I'm afraid. A good quality balancer is expensive so I would prefer to put my money there tbh.
The trouble with not soaking hay is you cannot tell how much the sugar content is without having it tested and if you like me get hay at various times/from various original sources this isn't practical so soaking is a pain but cheaper to be safe.
I use plastic bins for soaking and then tip them over to empty before feeding. Some use wheelie bins drilled at the bottom for emptying and plugged with a cork,a whole small bale fits in them. Often with lami less is more in the feed department.
If she's getting though a lot of hay quickly you could use small holed nets to slow her down but it's important to keep her gut working and not empty.

Do contact Jackie JA Taylor (metabolic horse) though as she is an expert in feeding for laminitis.
 
As I am a dodson and horrell convert have just picked up some 'safe and sound' fibre based feed - its specifically for laminitics - so fingers crossed that this works (will also try pony on it that is prone to laminitus)

thanks for all your help and advice - its much appreciated!
 
My Id mare (big girl) had problems 4 years ago.I found her lame in the field on one foot, called the farrier as we suspected an abcess he tried for several days and could get nothing and i was poulticing. i then got first vet she said abcess also and we kept on with the farrier and poultice. Second vet came and diagnosed mechanical laminitis ( she is ex army and has done a lot of hard road work) and abcess!!!!She was admitted to vets for 3weeks 3/4 of the hoof cut away (which was shocking) pus came out up the wall!!! Xrays showed rotation of the pedal bone and sole was convex almost like the under side of a saucer. She only ever had a problem in one forefoot. I feared the worst as vets were sceptical of the outcome. She had shoes fitted with frog supports and spent another 6 weeks at home on box rest (fed safe and sound and hay) She then came out of her box on to my lawn approx 20ft x 10ft fenced off. but like yours was uncomfortable tuning on concrete and hard ground. We than had plastic pads with built in frog supports and she wore those for over a year. She now has ordinary fronts on (can not cope without) and the sole looks normal but she does have flat feet, always had. She is now field sound and had her first foal this year. I am hoping to bring her back in to light work in the spring to see how she is, if she doesn't cope then she will retire, she is 18 next year. It does take a LONG time to get them back and if there is some degree of rotation they may never be the same, but for us it wasn't the end of the road. Good luck.
 
You have my sympathy on this 100%. I have 15.1hh Welsh D that had her first bout of lami in June this year. My vet thinks it was brought on by hormonal changes. Another vet was inclined to investigate metabolic rate...many people on here wanted to blast me for having a too-fat horse (she was well covered, but no way obese!). One vet now thinks my horse looks "shrink wrapped" -- whatever exactly that means, but she's on the skinny side now and I'll keep her that way to be on the safe side...

Some other posters have put on here that it's not just for native ponies, and of course they are right- it affects any horse (my friend's ex-racer has developed it this year too).

Soak your hay, 12 hours minimum. Deep (deep! 18 inches is what Lami Clinic recommends!) bed wall to wall. Speak to the laminitis clinic - they are really good and talk fast considering the £1/min charge!
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They will send you information by post if you require it. I found them very helpful and certainly gave me hope! They recommend 30 days box rest (strict, not coming out of the stable at all!) once the horse is sound again. It's frustrating....so hang in there.

Last bit of advice - if you're insured - hopefully you've contacted them asap. If not, I'd advise you to do so. I'm in the middle of box rest for a different issue at the moment and my insurance are playing hard-to-pay because of a mistake I made in my own administration...
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Hi, I don't want to be all doom and gloom but i lost my Clydesdale x Cob earlier this year due to laminitis. He was very over weight and the vet did warn me that due to his size it would be a tougher battle than if was in a small pony.
You need to get the weight off without starving your horse. I fed 3kg of Happy Hoof a day as it has no sugar in it and has some fibre nuts in it. It's of biotin, Vits & Mins which helps with the growth of the lamini. I also fed Formula for Feet at the recommended levels. I only fed 15lbs of hay a day which was split over 3 nets (double nets with small holes) and soaked for 24hrs. You need to weigh your horse weekly to in sure the weight is coming off. Spillers give free advice and advised the above diet for me. Stop giving treats including carrots, apples and licks etc.
Bed out your whole stable with a deep (really deep) bed of shavings as this will help to support your horses weight. DO NOT WALK YOUR HORSE even to muck out or to stretch it's legs, you are doing so much damage even walking a short distance.
Get your horse x-rayed now and again in a weeks time to see if the pedal bone has rotated in the meantime remove the shoes and ask your vet to fit foam pads which mold to your horses foot. My horse had to have 2 sets on at the same time as his weight squashed the first set too quickly.
My horse was on 4 bute a day but your vet will advise the correct amount...i used to have to buy it by the box as i went though so many!!! Also use a ACP as it helps to thin the blood and also calms your horse down. The vet can let you know how much to use. I also used to give 6 asprin (human) every otherday. Sounds alot but they are big animals!!! Again your vet can let you know how many to give your horse.
My horse was barefoot but the vet wanted to use imprint shoes but they didn't make them big enough so the farrier made heartbar shoes for him but these weren't fitted for over a month after laminitis was confirmed.
Unfortunatley all of the above still wasn't enough to save my boy and even though he was on box rest for over 3 months and lost over 165kg his pedal bone rotated too far and before it came though i let him in the field for one last munch of grass and had him PTS.
Walking out to the field he looked sound and even bucked!!! The vet said this was because the lamini had all died and it's the ripping of the lamini that causes the pain. It's like sponge around the bone and it's the blood pressure that is killing the sponge. I was told that my horse would have to be sound for one month without bute before turnout could even be considered. Turnout would have been in a small padock with a muzzle on and only for 1 hour a day, slowly building up.
I don't want to panic you but you really need to act fast with laminitis and other people on here have given really good advice.
Good Luck and fingers crossed for a speedy and full recovery.
 
Thank all for your replies and advice - will be purchasing several more bales of shavings tomorrow so that her 6" deep bed becomes and 18" deep bed and will deep litter too.
Moo is now scoffing soaked hay fed out of her very small holed haynet (as she could empty a normal haynet in under 15 mins!) and her feed has been changed to D&H Safe and Sound. I dont tend to feed treats although I used to give her the occasional carrot - but not any more!
Prior to this lami episode she was fit and not overweight (she just looked big compared to the other horses at home who are all TB's) b ut I will continue to use the weigh tape to monitor.
Will speak to Vet and farrier tomorrow to arrange for them to meet and come up with a plan of action. I will also inform my Insurers.
Again thanks for all your advice!
Maloo
 
If you feel you need to slow the consumption of hay further: One thing I did was to double net the hay ration (one net inside the other so the small holes were even smaller).

I personally liked doing the whole measuring and weighing thing to keep track of how much my horse was eating. Hoewever, being a tall welsh cob with a decent amount of bone, the weigh tape was a bit OFF. (At the moment,my mare tapes out at 506kg but on scales she's more like 568kg! and that's her looking rather thin, to be honest). When I started trying to slim her down, I was calculating her feed rations on the tape "weight" and feeding her 1 1/2%- 2% of that. In retrospect, I was probably starving her down too quickly!

I just think that you may have a similar issue with your Moo if you do the calculations the way I did, but it's better than not weighing etc....
 
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We had an id/tb that developed laminitus when she was 7.

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Me too. I'm very fortunate that she has recovered although for the rest of her/my life I'll live in dread of it returning.
 
Has your vet suggested Cushings? Teenage horse + laminitis in October + not overweight horse can easily be a sign of Cushings and they don't all get the curly or even long coat that so many people see as the first sign.

I haven't read every post but has anyone suggested soaking her hay too, to reduce the sugar? With my IR mare I find if I soak the hay for up to 12 hours she is far easer to keep her weight under control and stop her getting footy.
 
Sorry but I completely disagree that you should ask the vet to remove the shoes & fit foam pads, correct frog support is absolutely vital, I would be having an experienced remedial farrier urgently to look at the xrays & fit heart bars or imprints asap, a month without these is way too long IMO
 
Oh good, glad she likes her hay soaked! Shavings are definitely the best bedding as they mould to and support the foot well.
Fingers crossed you see an improvement over the next few days.
 
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Sorry but I completely disagree that you should ask the vet to remove the shoes & fit foam pads, correct frog support is absolutely vital, I would be having an experienced remedial farrier urgently to look at the xrays & fit heart bars or imprints asap, a month without these is way too long IMO

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From what I understand just supporting the frog isn't enough... the whole base of the foot ie. sole needs support. Think about the fact that sole only grows from the base of the coffin bone so therefore sole supported = coffin bone supported... this is a very simplified way of thinking of it from my understanding.
 
The whole foot will be supported with correctly fitted heart bars & pads, further support will be given by the deep shavings bed, you would not want pressure on the sole, this will be extremely painful
 
I have had my first experience of laminitis in May this year.....

Ashamedly I have fat horses - my land is far too rich for brood mares and being Welsh cobs, they need no encouragement to eat! Yet in 15 years of breeding I had never previously had problems.

In May of this year I went to check my mares as usual ( they were on unfertilized fields) and found a mare down , totally recumbent.(She is a 15.1h,nine year old tb x Sec D mare, barren.) . I managed to get her up eventually but there was no movement in her, she wouldn,t even pick up her feet. She was given a massive pain killer, managed eventually to bandage her feet and she was trailered some 500 meters from the field to the stable.
She could barely walk at all (not pottery - crippled!)
To cut a long story short - this was her treatment from there on ....
Rubber matting - VERY deep shavings bed.
Soaked hay in double hole net.
Happy hoof three times per day
Biotin
Equivite
Hippoex Lami suppliment.
ACP twice daily (one month)
four bute per day ( reduced over three months)
Bandaged feet with frog supports for one month)
Heart Bars
two set x -rays (pedal bone rotation was minimal but pain level did not correspond to this!)

My mare was stabled for .................... five months!!!!!!!!!! and has gone out 24/7 this week (I have everything crossed at the moment !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). She was allowed out to a menage after four months and then limited turnout into a rough paddock to get her back on the green stuff.

She was /is weighed once a fortnight and has lost a lot of weight.The amazing thing is that this type of confinement just shows you how little intake these good doers require .My mare was still in "show condition" three months in despite living on fresh air.

There were days when I said enough was enough but my briliant vet said to persevere. Then after her first set of shoes she developed serotic abscesses in both feet (one after the other). The vet predicted it would happen and he was right.

Her progress has been slow, painful and at times harrowing. As I say she's just gone out and I hold everything crossed. I am lucky that she has been a fantastic patient, despite being in horrendous pain and up until the last month or so, was quite happy to be confined. I'm not sure I could go through it all again though.

Cost has been huge and obviously still ongoing as she now has to be be shod whereas she was previously barefoot.I am not insured (as I have too many horses to make it viable) but I have spared no expense in an effort to treat her.The hippo ex suppliment cost £91 a tub but in truth I'm not sure it did much (there was no obvious improvement but she was at her worst when she was on it).

Conclusion - there had been no change in her management from previous years.
She had previously grazed that field with no ill effect.
Not carrying any more weight than in previous years.
Whilst this mare was undoubtedly overweight - I still don't believe that weight is the sole factor in her case but more to do with the rate of grazing growth and possibly metabolic variations.

Laminitis in the larger horse is even more problematic due to founder - complete rotation of the pedal bone .As previously said though, you do need to x-ray to establish exactly how bad things are. I was luck that this did not happen with my mare despite the abscesses. Unfortunately in the larger breeds, natural weight can be their downfall.

Good luck - I know what your going through!
 
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