Lanky has OCD (posted in vet in error)

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LankyDoodle

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They are going to do the anthroscopy or whatever it's called to look for any cartilage damage (meniscus), but the Xrays have now been looked at by a top Orthopaedic surgeon at Liphook (where the vet from Western Counties used to work), and they are in agreement that he has OCD in both stifles, worse on the lame side.

They want to go in and operate right away, forget about the box rest and anti-inflammatories for 3 weeks, as with it being OCD it will only get worse. So they're going to shove the camera in to have a look round, then operate on the affected joints, subject to agreement from my insurers. So erm, yeh, 2 uninsurable back legs at the age of 8. Great.

I have no idea what the prognosis for this is. I've done some googling and read that only 70% come sound enough to be ridden again, particularly where there has been cartilage damage as well. I'm in a state of shock.

This meniscus damage is the thing bothering them most, as that could prove difficult to combat; but with the OCD in both stifles, how likely is it that he will ever be sound, even just enough to do light hacking?

Gutted is just not the word now.

I have been particularly unimpressed with WC Equine Clinic actually. Everything is as clear as mud with them and to be honest, I'd have been better off asking my postman for an explanation of what this means for all the help the guy has been. I am pleased with how fast they are working, but I wish they'd slow down enough for me to actually give permission for them to operate - the implication seems to be that I will let it happen regardless.
 
I've been keeping an eye out for an update. I'm so sorry it's such disappointing news. I've no real experience of OCD, but I'm sure lots of other people can give advice. I just wanted to send you a (((((((((big hug))))))))) as I know how you must be feeling right now
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xxx
 
The more I read on conditions of the stifle the more I was hoping it would be OCD as that had a better outcome than any damage to ligaments, meniscus or cartiledge (as long as the bone chip hasn't caused irreversable damage to the cartiledge etc). I was just lucky that when they got in there it was just soft tissue inflammation.

There are a few people on here whose horses have had OCD either in the stifle or hock and all outcomes I have read were positive ones. I think it was Halfstep who advised me get the arthoscopy done and sooner rather than later. The sooner the bone chip or damaged cartiledge is removed the better the prognosis. I went for the op before the insurance company agreed and they paid up.

If all goes well then IRAP or adequan would be your next line of treatment so you could get a firm price from vets. Although if problems under GA then there will be extra charges.

Any chance you could change vets?

Keep positive, I know its hard when so many scare stories are on the internet.... been there done that!! The Horse.com was a very very informative site for OCD and IRAP.

Sending lots and lots of healing vibes for Lanky! xx
 
Thanks guys.
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I must be feeling really emotional at the moment. I don't know what the best course of action is here. I'm trying to get through to my vet at Mount Vets, which is my usual vet, as I know I can get a decent, honest answer from him rather than 'the surgery is absolutely imperative to our cashflow but is unlikely to make a jot of difference to your horse'.

On one hand, I want to give it all a damn good go on the insurer (as they will pay up to 3k), but then on the other, what is the point in all that when the horse has a 30% chance of never being ridden again.

Harsh as this will sound, I can just about afford the level of care this horse needs when he's HEALTHY (bad feet, drops weight, sweet itch which can be controlled with expensive rugs), so if he can't be ridden I'm going to start feeling really bitter about things.

I have a 19 year old welsh cob and he owes me sod all. He's only ever, touch wood, been an honest, dependable, healthyish horse. And now I've got an 8 year old I bought because I knew him, not because I liked his breeding particularly, and he's cost me more in one year - emotionally and financially - than George has in nearly 7 years of owning him.
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I wouldn't be wanting a vet who "specialises in equine internal medicine including the investigation and treatment of conditions such as gastric ulceration, weight loss and foal medicine" do arthroscopy on an older horse. I'd want someone who specialises in that type of surgery.

The chap I use for such cases is not THAT far from you - Mark Georgetti at Three Counties - see http://www.tceh.co.uk/staff-vets.htm

He operated on a 2 year old last year for me - BIG chip in one hock. Horse was backed this year AND passed a 5 stage vetting. The experienced equine vet who did the vetting knew he'd had a chip removed - but after careful examination, flexion tests, trot-ups etc could NOT decide which hock it was!!
 
He isn't going to be doing the anthroscopy - as I said in my post, the orthopaedic surgeon is going to be coming to do it IF it is done. And the horse is 8. Western Counties have an excellent reputation, and if I choose to have the surgery done, I'm quite happy that Dave has decided to get a specialist surgeon to come and do it.
 
Lanky is having surgery W/B 14th September. He is coming home tonight, box rest and bute for a couple of weeks.

Vet said that the level of lameness he is displaying and the nature of the stifle joint means that he would be very guarded about getting hopes up about him returning to any level of soundness that would allow him to return to full work; but I decided that the vet fees on my policy will cover this and I have to give it a go, and if it doesn't work and he has to be PTS, then I have given him a good chance and tried my best for him.

Apparently, Tim at Liphook says the level of damage means that injectible medication is not going to make a jot of difference.
 
Don't stress!! My 4 year old has had OCD!!! Better to get the surgery done as he wont be any good to you as a field ornament and tbh with age being on his side you have a better chance than most. Oh and don't worry about the exclusions my 4 year old will only have one leg covered soon as hes hopping around on one leg!! Blooming horses!!

Also it's great they are going straight in as you are saving the money from the treatment they were going to do over the next 3 weeks. Any chance they could give you a quote??

Good luck and keep your chin up xxxxxxxxx
 
My old horse had ocd in both his hind fetlocks. He has bi lateral arthroscopy and returned to full work for 6 years-was still in full work when he was pts for a broken leg. After his surgery I did the adequan injections and he had 3 months field rest in a small paddock then a gradual return to work. Don't despair.....all is def not lost!
 
Thanks everyone for words of sympathy, encouragement... everything. I'm really grateful.

I went to pick him up, and he couldn't get on the trailer fast enough. Got him home and settled with his first dose of three weeks' worth of danilon and a nice big manger full of delicious haylage. He and my cob, George, who is in the paddock next to the stable Lanky is able to use while on box rest, groomed each other non-stop and were still grooming each other over the door when we left. We took it that they missed each other!

Lanky's surgery is booked for Monday 14th September and he has to go up there on Sunday 13th. He will spend about 5 days in there post-operatively, or longer if there are complications. He has had some injections into the joint and, like I said, is now on Danilon and box rest for the next three weeks - lots of love, cuddles and extra treats for him.
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We aren't getting too hopeful but I've spoken to a few people tonight whose horses have had surgery like this, and one of them returned to high level eventing after recovery. That was a stifle OCD as well. The problem with stifles is that they are far more complex to operate on that joints like the fetlock, which may mean that they cannot get to the lesion affecting him. But we have our fingers crossed and feel a lot better because we are doing everything we can to help him within the parameters of our available funds.

Talking of funds - the bill was 678 including livery (21 a day) and nursing care (16 a day), both of which have to be paid for by us as the insurer will not pay for that. So so far we have used 600 of our 3000 available for this claim, not accounting for 2 call-outs from normal vet (about another £80 altogether) and the penicillin, which I'm guestimating at about £30ish, so we are probably at about £750 max of our £3000 for now. I am going to get a quote for the surgery sent through to me. Of course any livery and nursing care related to that won't count anyway as we will have to pay it, and we will also probably end up having to chip in for any post-operative injections, medication and courses of action seen as necessary. Then, because he's got bilateral OCD, he's going to be uninsurable on both back legs.

All is not lost yet and I take a lot of peace from the fact we can do no more than we are doing right now.

Thank you to all.xxxx
 
Hi

I know what you are going through. My four year old suddenly went lame back in March when we started to back him. The vets suspected OCD even before they operated. They removed a bone chip in his hock and they also found a bone cyst in his stifle joint all due to OCD. He had to have 8 weeks box rest with walking out by hand for the last six. I was totally confused by what was going on and didn't understand all the terms they were using but I did have a bill for over £5000. I am afraid to say mine is not a positive story - hes still lame nearly six months later and the vets have advised me to have him PTS - others have told me to give him time to mature. At the moment he is quite happy munching away in the field. I did feel the vets took my money very quickly - the aftercare was awful I was left almost on my own and with a lame horse.

I am sorry I cannot be more positive, but the research I did before the operation was very positive on most cases so mine is in the minority. I did get my insurers to ok the operation before I went ahead.

Good luck and keep us posted
 
Thanks guys.

Just coming to terms with the fact that I have a 19 year old cob and who knows how much ridden work he's got left in him; and an 8 year old horse that probably the best we can hope for is that he will be pain free, in which case, the insurer won't pay out on death anyway because if there is no pain then it isn't euthenasia.

My normal vet just phoned and I am so glad he did. I now understand things much more clearly. He's told me straight that there's a small chance Lanky will return to ridden work and more likely he will be an expensive pet who is at least pain free. Also, he's explained that this may not be a one-op deal as with it being keyhole, they may not be able to get all the stuff out.

I guess I just have to enjoy my cob as much as possible and my husband will just have to ride his bike!

I am just in such a whirlwind at the moment, and I'm afraid, selfish as it sounds, the logistics are coming into it as well.

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So I am still waiting for the quote, and have also contacted the clinic to ask for emailed copies of the radiographs (I think they were digital as they were emailed to Liphook) so that I can discuss them with my vet.

Lanky is still slightly lame, but farrier came to remove his shoes and said he looks to be almost sound??

I noted that the vet at the clinic has not done ultrasound. He said to me on the phone that it is difficult to see meniscal damage on US, but I assumed he would still go ahead and have a look, but he hasn't. He just wants to go straight in and scope him which has both confused and infuriated me. I know it's saving me money on USs, but maybe the US WOULD have shown the level of damage. So I am getting my vet to look at the xrays and I am going to ask whether it is worth USing him first.

I think whatever happens, even if anything has been exaggerated, because the insurer will exclude everything at the backend, I am going to have to make use of my ability to claim for this surgery while I can, and therefore still have the surgery.

I can't believe how confusing this is!
 
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