Large DIY livery yards- being diplomatic!!!

annagain said:
This is why I love my yard. Adults only and geldings only so very little argy bargy with the horses or owners. 12 liveries plus the YOs horse and her little herd of Sec B Stallion, broodmares and youngsters which we never see as they're on the other side of the farm. They split into 2 herds for the winter and have about 8 acres of winter grazing per herd. They then merge into one herd and go on the hay fields (about 20 acres) all together from when the hay gets cut until the clocks go back (as it's quite a lonely, slippery 5 min walk to the fields in the dark). I'd prefer them to live out all year but they have to come in overnight from end of November until roughly the middle of April but it protects the grass and makes sure there's no fighting over hay (they don't get any in field) so I don't really mind. YO is lovely as are the other liveries:)

Sorry I'll stop sounding so smug now and complain. They haven't fixed the broken floodlight in the school yet so it's half in darkness :p
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Sounds like my ideal yard :-)
 
PolarSkye said:
Actually, you said the majority.

P
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I said the 'majority of people who want what I have' in relation to owning land and stables, but I said 'lots of' livery yards by me charge £5 per day. The fact is that if people realised what actually goes into maintaining land alone (without horses trashing it) they would realise how lucky they are.
I do realise the OP was having a rant about the specific liveries on her yard and unfortunately wherever you get lots of people (in particular women) you will get bitchyness and atmosphere, there are nice friendly yards but as a general rule you will have to compromise on your list of requirements. :)
 
I think maybe 10 years i have been there too long! sadly buying my own bit of land with stable isnt possible. I am not debating the cost i pay (£124 per month for a stable and small field and thats it) and i understand that rates go up (although the water comes from a well) and i cant comment on her business affairs.

Just miss the old days when it wasnt so big :-) horse likes it there and is happy so thats the main thing.

hay ho better get back to work :-)
 
Alchemy said:
Sounds like my ideal yard :-)
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Pah, you try practicing a dressage test when you can't see A.... or F or K for that matter. It's unbearable. Just kidding, it's lovely, and I hope it never changes. The fact most liveries only leave if they move away or their horse dies or is sold says a lot.
 
Baggybreeches said:
unfortunately when people expect to keep a horse at livery for less than it costs to board a medium sized dog
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yep. its often not about yard owners getting greedy, just getting fed up at running at a loss and people bitching at paying £20 pw and expecting great facilities.(not aimed at you OP, unfortunately other people is the extra price you have to pay).
 
I have a theory as to why female horse owners are considered difficult. When women spend a lot of time together, such as liveries do, then our periods can synchronise. It's the hormones: we can't help it. Give us sympathy and chocolate, and run for cover.

I have no idea what's up with the men - lycanthropy, perhaps?
 
There are livery yards which are providing a service and are a business, which liveries are in need of, and therefore we pay for these services and so are entitled to expect what we are paying for, and if the business chooses to offer its services at a low rate then that is their loss and shouldnt be passed on to the paying livery that it is their fault. Liveries do not run the business, if YO think they want more for DIY then charge more, the demand is there and people will pay, but at least be fair about what services are being paid for.

Baggybreeches sadly i wasnt born with a gold coin in my hand, but if i had the money i would gladly buy my own space and break my back doing all the maintenance, which funnily enough i tend to do anyway as a paying livery because the YO cant be asked, funny that isnt it
 
putasocinit said:
There are livery yards which are providing a service and are a business, which liveries are in need of, and therefore we pay for these services and so are entitled to expect what we are paying for, and if the business chooses to offer its services at a low rate then that is their loss and shouldnt be passed on to the paying livery that it is their fault. Liveries do not run the business, if YO think they want more for DIY then charge more, the demand is there and people will pay, but at least be fair about what services are being paid for.

Baggybreeches sadly i wasnt born with a gold coin in my hand, but if i had the money i would gladly buy my own space and break my back doing all the maintenance, which funnily enough i tend to do anyway as a paying livery because the YO cant be asked, funny that isnt it
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but its also about expectations, not just about livery yards charging too low a price.How many posts on here stating how cheap their livery is with pride? Also just as many saying how awful the school/grazing/fencing is. It just isn't sustainable to run at a loss, even if it is your fault as a yard owner. If you aren't happy with your yard, then leave.

I was bought up on a council estate. I am lucky in that I was able (after 10 years in the equestrian industry) to go to uni, then on to a PhD. 10 years after gaining my PhD, at 43, I am in a position to buy a very modest cottage with a very small amount of land. I work two jobs.I am still lucky in that I am able to do that, both in skill set and physically. I am lucky I have the disposable income to have a luxury hobby. I now have my horses at home but with the stables I have just put in etc I am still paying more than average DIY livery prices, it's just mine now.

For the last three years I have been renting a yard and 12 acres and the sheer amount it was costing me in time/money to maintain that for 6 horses (3 mine) was staggering.
 
Yes...i've been on one such yard putasocinit,..whereby we paid a fair decent £65 a week for what turned out to be pretty much DIY when it was infact advertised as part.. Ended up doing fencing jobs, turning out/bringing in/feeding/rugging/de-ruggin/poo picking YO's horses (all 4 of them) and other liveries horses too, as they all lived as a herd so used to ask you 'could you just do this,..that and the other.. gosh the list was endless as to the amount of tasks this place slowly put upon their liveries and were expected to do as a matter of course!!...and still paying a decent amount each week in rent. I voted with my feet in the end and the only thing i was sad about was leaving some great friends i'd made. YO used to have 'days off' when she felt like it, with absolutely no warning whatsoever!!.. some way to run a business eh.. no wonder the turnover at the place was like a roller coaster!
 
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putasocinit said:
the demand is there and people will pay, but at least be fair about what services are being paid for
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Exactly. If I pay upwards of £150/month, I expect certain services . . . DIY or not. Little things like, I don't know, fence maintenance, muck trailer emptied regularly, drains maintained, etc.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

P
 
However i am a livery who doesnt mind going the extra mile as long as my horses are happy and i am getting what i am paying for, but it does get depressing when folk keep going on about how liveries want livery cheap, that is not the case at all, liveries want a service they are paying for and those that want more well they need to go and buy their own land
 
I don't mind doing that extra bit either,...but to be blatantly taken the pee out of pushed me over the edge when i was paying nearly £250 a month!

You Get What You Pay For...as the saying goes, but it went the other way in this case.

Would love to buy my own land and stables, but there's nothing available in my area unfortunately.
 
I also pay £250 a month and that is only for the stable and a small field, bedding and hay and feed are at my own expense, whilst i am not complaining, we actually all need each other, without one we would not have the other
 
Oh, and for £200 a month, I get a hot horse wash, a solarium, a horse walker, an all-weather outdoor arena and YO's husband is building us a toilet and tea-room and putting in hard standing around the hay barn . . . I think our facilities are fantastic, the YO is a gem (as is her family), fellow livery is lovely and the horses all get along . . . but we all pull our weight, look after the yard and the fields, keep everything neat and tidy, look after each other and each other's horses . . . it really comes down to people being kind and considerate to each other.

I still resent the idea that liveries take the proverbial . . . surely most of them just want what's best for their horses and their horse's companions . . . surely we all try and do the best we can with what we've got? Or am I seriously deluded?

P
 
putasocinit said:
Baggybreeches sadly i wasnt born with a gold coin in my hand, but if i had the money i would gladly buy my own space and break my back doing all the maintenance, which funnily enough i tend to do anyway as a paying livery because the YO cant be asked, funny that isnt it
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I was definitely not born with anything in my hand, my Mum raised us single handed (pre CSA days)in a council house (which we were allocated due to our old rented house being subject to a demolition order), there were days when she had the choice of buy food or put 50p in the meter,so please don't plead poverty to me. I left home at 16 and worked hard with my now husband to buy the things we have and we have never had an inheritance, we have taken loans, been immersed in frightening amounts of debt but all with an ultimate goal in mind. I am actually quite offended that you think I have been afforded such an opportunity by birth..........
 
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baggybreeches - this is just a forum and its about time people stopped taking things personally on it, the fact I used your name was to reply to your thread, I did not imply that you were born with a gold coin in your hand, and to take umbridge to my reply and the other posts you have made on this thread, is that you have a very big chip on your shoulder, because you came from nothing and now have something, well good for you, but dont go slapping everyone else in the face because they have nothing and no one is pleading poverty to anyone on here. Just for the record money doesnt buy health. Have a good evening
 
putasocinit said:
baggybreeches - this is just a forum and its about time people stopped taking things personally on it, the fact I used your name was to reply to your thread, I did not imply that you were born with a gold coin in your hand, and to take umbridge to my reply and the other posts you have made on this thread, is that you have a very big chip on your shoulder, because you came from nothing and now have something, well good for you, but dont go slapping everyone else in the face because they have nothing and no one is pleading poverty to anyone on here. Just for the record money doesnt buy health. Have a good evening
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Sorry, I took your reply out of context. No chip on my shoulder, all I am trying to say is that anyone can have their own land/yard if they are prepared to work hard and make sacrifices, a point I tried to get across in a poor way.
 
I would love to know how any livery yard owner makes it pay them a living wage? As far as I can see the costs including mortgages and loans, plus on going maintenance costs just make it a money pit with the pleasure of subsidising someone else's hobby. The only ones I see who have a hope of making it viable are farmers who have redundant buildings to convert, already have equipment and who often get grants for changing buildings from agricultural use.
 
I've tried all sides of this argument; been a livery on a private yard and a massive one, bought my own yard with six stables, and had DIY liveries on. The DIY liveries were run completely profit free at £15/wk to cover the insurance only as I did not want to get into that game. We organised hay and haylage, provided private storage, menege, laminitic paddocks and 24/7/365 turnout, mains water, lights and field maintenance - all we asked was that the paddocks would be picked regularly. That didn't last long with all the moaning and bitching they were never happy, despite practically having free rein to ride in the fields, bring in/out, buy their own supplies from wherever they chose.

We are now contemplating renting it all out and putting daughter's horse on livery to save time in maintenance etc. Plus we could do with an indoor and easier access to trainer.

One member on here rents a similar private yard about a mile away; 3 stables, hayshed, originally 3 acres poor grazing but recently gained access to another 4, and mains water with generator for lights. She pays £100 per week for the lot and has friends on to share, currently six ponies, so is obviously happy as it is less than the per stable rate on a livery yard. But the owner obtained planning permission for his personal use only, doesn't pay business rates, council tax or income tax on this rent, doesn't do field maintenance and doesn't have commercial liability insurances either. That's about the only reason it is financially viable, so he has managed to purchase a further 12 acres in the last four years and has split this into similar set ups and managed to get further planning granted on the same personal use basis by submitting the application in another person's name.
 
Shysmum said:
Blimey Baggybreeches, what on earth is that about ?? Why be so rude ?
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I understand where this came from baggybreeches! I am a YO and over the years it has often struck me that my clients don't appreciate that when their bills at home go up AMAZINGLY so do mine! There isn't a special water, electricity, insurance company etc, exclusively used by livery yards where our bills don't go up when everybody else's do. I think the mistake a lot of yards make, is thinking there is lots oF money to be made here, there isn't. Most of us do it for the love of the horses in our care, and for the company it provides. What I do disagree with though, is overhorsed fields, bad fencing and just a general lack of maintenance. If you can't at least cover your costs and make a small profit, then really you should close down. There is no excuse for badly run yards but then if more people voted with their feet these yards wouldn't exist and the good ones could charge a more realistic price maybe? What would everyone think of that?
 
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