Lari update - good and bad

[Birker2020]

I took Lari for a hack on Saturday in company and I was delighted with him, he had a lorry, a bus, a tractor all go past him, the tractor he wasn’t even looking in its direction, he just seemed totally aloof to it. He also encountered sheep and a giant hay bale on top of a low loader and was very well behaved. The horse he was with was a little spooky but he managed to hold it together and they both came home calmly and happy.

However, he had a couple of bizarre little spins when he was walking in the direction of home. I’m sure he must have known he was heading home, it was pretty obvious sue to the fact we’d arrived at a T Junction and turned left and almost double backed on ourselves so it was a bit bizarre that he decided to spin and plant. They weren’t unseating spins or anything. The one we put down to him seeing a load of dog agility equipment through the hedgerow and not understanding what it was and to be fair I did let him have that. The other spin was more dramatic but we didn’t see what he spun for and he responded well to a gruff voice and walked on when I asked him so I was pleased. The following day I thought I’d repeat what we’d done so I put a message on the group Whats App for our yard to ask if anyone wanted to hack out on Sunday. No one replied so I thought I’d take him on my own down the lane turn around and come back. Well that was an eye opener!

As soon as we got through the gate it was plant, spin, mini rear. So he got a couple of short little smacks and I sent him forwards. I battled down the lane and decided to go the way we’d go part of the way we’d gone the day before to make it seem like it was familiar territory so turned left at the junction. But he decided he didn’t want to go any further and the spin, rear cycle was repeated several times before I got him further. Then I decided to turn towards home due to his unpredictability. I turned him and made him stand. To be fair every time he did spin he didn’t try to take off it was just that he didn’t want to face that direction. We got back to the junction and I turned him back up the road we’d just come from and predictably we had the same behaviour, spin rear, nap, plant. But I got him moving forwards again. We got home (walked very sedately) and went through the gate then straight back onto the road, again he repeated his earlier behaviour so I gave him a couple of short smacks and sent him trotting forward making sure I gave with my hands.

We went back through the gate, walked round the yard, I told my friend what was happening and she came to open the gate for us and no sooner had the gate started moving when he spun round and plunged forward a few times, so again I turned him, trotted him out. Made him go a bit of a way at which point there was a car coming towards me so I made him halt calmly, turned and stood calmly and walked calmly back through the gate. I then put him on the walker so he didn’t immediately go back to his nice haylage net!

Last night I rode him in the field with my partner in tow on foot. It’s a big field and my partner sat on a jump in the middle and he happily went around the edge in both directions in walk and trot and I cantered him between some of the cross country fences and he didn’t bat an eyelid. In the end we did about 30 mins work and I even jumped a small cross pole on both reins. At one point my partner walked away to set up the cross pole and he didn’t like that and did a very small spin but it was fine and I gave him a pat and walked him around. On the way back across the field to the yard I asked my partner to go one way and we went another and he seemed okay with that but when the horses in the next field started running about he started doing his spinning again although I couldn’t make out why that was. I was very pleased with him, he was a good boy and I was relieved that Sunday’s behaviour hadn’t resurfaced.

I’ve asked one of the pro riders at the yard to take him down the lane for me so that’s happening next week. Tonight I thought I’d give him the night off riding and either long rein or put him on the walker and then introduce the massage pad I have and give him a bit of fuss. Tomorrow he's got the dentist so I can rule out any pain.

 

[Sprat]

I can't recall whether you hacked him when you tried him? Possibly just a bit of new home nerves that need ironing out?

 

[ihatework]

You’ll be ok!
Reading between the lines of the advert and from what you have said on here already I think this was going to be an inevitable stage with this horse.

Sounds like he is one of those one that plays on things either through anxiety or cheekiness. Either way, I’d cut any hard feed, stick to a rigid routine, and work him reasonably hard every day. Don’t give him an inch. Good idea to get someone else to hack him alone to start with, you can just go in company.

 

[Birker2020]

I can't recall whether you hacked him when you tried him? Possibly just a bit of new home nerves that need ironing out?

No there was no opportunity to hack him as the lane he lived down one end went into a footpath and the other end led to a very quiet lane again and the chance of finding any traffic was impossible! I was told he hacked out with other horses, indeed there was a video I saw of him doing so but it was down the lane he lived on. I did ask if he hacked out on his own and was told she had done so previously but their environment is very quiet compared to ours which is much busier, hence the bus, tractor, sheep etc.

She also said, to be fair, that it was best to hack him with others to start with. It was only because I'd no one to go with and because I felt I wanted to see what he did that I went on my own on Sunday. I had already discussed with a pro rider the consequences of doing so as I did wonder if he would play up with me and I was scared that I wouldn't be able to see it through. But I did and I am proud of myself for that but I just wish I could have done more, gone further. But there is plenty of time, we are not in a race I know. In some ways its easier with a new horse because you don't know what they are capable of. Its when you know they are going to fling themselves around that it gets scary lol.

 

[Birker2020]

You’ll be ok!
Reading between the lines of the advert and from what you have said on here already I think this was going to be an inevitable stage with this horse.

Sounds like he is one of those one that plays on things either through anxiety or cheekiness. Either way, I’d cut any hard feed, stick to a rigid routine, and work him reasonably hard every day. Don’t give him an inch. Good idea to get someone else to hack him alone to start with, you can just go in company.

Yes I agree, especially noted about the food, he is on what he was on before but with the addition of pink powder which I do wonder has something to do with it. But he's on nothing heating, I already knew not to fall into that trap that some new owners do, not enough work, too much nice heating food, being a bit 'too kind' and not setting boundaries, etc, etc.

The haylage he was on at his previous owners was very wet (their made haylage) - he's on the Marksway blue (hi fibre) with me.

I do like him though. 'Love' feels like betrayal at the moment but it will come. I like the sparky side of him, its not nastiness, I think its insecuirty, this was evident in the fact that as soon as my partner walked away from us he played up.

My partner bought me a stable sign - I'd not realised he'd ordered anything and I already have one for him anyway. It was very similar to the sign I had for Bailey 'Owned and Loved by Anne'. I can't put it up at the moment, it feels like a total betrayal to my lovely Bailey.

 

[Bernster]

Good on you for testing things and working through challenges. I’d also put it down to a bit of new home anxiety and needing to build trust with you. It may also be showing you what his go to is when anxious etc., which is useful information and gives you something to work on and try to resolve or have some tools to manage it.

I’m a bit risk averse and quite cautious as a rider. I took it more slowly with Bertie although I appreciate that may not be your preferred route or you may not always have company to ride with. if you do feel like it’s escalating and you’re not as happy with that, then I’d step back, do more work in the school and in hand, go out in company for a while on short hacks or with someone on the ground.

ETA I think hacking solo is one of the biggest asks of a horse.

 

[Birker2020]

ETA I think hacking solo is one of the biggest asks of a horse.

Yes it probably is though I've never thought of it like that.

Bailey was a nightmare, I'd find myself in tears countless times whilst she napped, spooked, spun on almost every hack we did for years and years until her confidence the last four of five years of her life enable her to hack down lanes and along the main road that went towards home and people liked hacking with us because she was confident.

She encountered buses, tractors, combine harvesters (the once we had about six inches spare between the combine and the hedge) loose sheep, pigs, cattle and horses galloping along their fields in the lanes parallel to the road. She was really very good on the roads and very rarely spun road (and never in front of a car). When we moved yards I even long reined her round the lanes. I perservered with her because I was a one horse owner and I couldn't bare the fact of never hacking out on our own.

I expected Lari to try it on with me, all horses do but now I know he's just anxious that's fine. To be honest he is very babyish, not just anxiety but also with the way he behaves in general, like chewing on his lead rope, trying to put the headcollar in his mouth every time you put it on him, pulling at your coat sleeve. Its like a comfort blanket for him I think. Sometimes its hard to imagine that he's done the things he has (jumping countless Newcomer classes), jumping BE100's and everything else as you'd never think it of him, doing grown up stuff as he reminds me of a four year old. But that might be what has made him like that, as he's been asked too much. Bless him.

 

[Caol Ila]

After three months, I still haven't tried hacking Foinavon alone. I'm trying to avoid a situation like you describe because he does not have a great deal of life experience with humans, and I think putting him in a place where he's planting because he's anxious, and the rider is using force to drive him through it, will create a bigger mess than I started with. A pro trainer tried this with the schooling, and achieved precisely that. Besides, it took Gypsum and my very first horse, Angie, well over a year to be able to reliably hack alone, and at the time, I was using a more traditional, "make them do it" method. So I'm not sure that really facilitated things.

He will, however, follow OH anywhere. We go on long rides with OH on foot. Luckily, OH likes hiking. When I'm out with horses or OH, I do some leading. If Foinavon gets anxious and plants, I urge him onwards with a stronger leg aid, but not kicking or using the whip. If he responds by getting more stressed and resistent to the aid, I send OH or another horse to the front, at which point he happily moves forward. Fine. The other day, he willingly led OH past a section he always worries about and stops, so he's slowly progressing.

The way I see it, I'm building a well of trust and positive experiences, and he's getting tons of mileage hacking around the park, seeing all sorts of things. At some point, he will be able to hack alone and go in the school, but my aim is to set him up, so it's calm and happy. I don't want him in a position where he feels he needs to plant or spin, or me in a position where I'm feeling, "I can't let him get away with that." It's lose-lose, really.

It's annoying as hell when I can't find people to hack with, for sure. I hear that. Makes me miss Gypsum, who I could just hop on and ride into the park, the school, wherever. But Gypsum wasn't like that (at least with the trail riding), either, initially. He's willing to do groundwork in the school and doesn't get upset, so I take those days as an opportunity to spend time in the school doing positive, focused groundwork and making the school into a normal place to go.

Time and patience. It's all time and patience.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

It takes time and is a big ask for most horses in a new environment with a new person.

I've had my current horse for 4 years and I know solo hacking isn't his forté and he doesn't love it because he's not the most confident being, but we can get through it. We both feel more comfortable with company, so we primarily do that. I know we can hack alone, but for the most part choose not to. He's also keen on following OH.

I also do a lot of hand walking with mine because sometimes OH and I want to hike with the dog from the yard (good trails), and I'll just lead the horse with us. He's like a big dog anyway ?

It just takes miles and time.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm hoping when I get my trailer back from the mechanic I can start introducing quieter hacks on early Sunday mornings like I used to do. Park up at the pub car park and go round lovely quiet lanes. Hopefully I can persuade my partner and the dog to come with me, if I can drag him from his bed.

He did promise me he would start doing this with us but I can't see it myself, he seems disinterested in doing anything too active which is a shame although he works very hard on the three days a week he does work.

I've got someone to go with one of the weekend days and hopefully can find someone for the other day and will start introducing Lari going in front to start the ball rolling. If I can develop that a bit and maybe then start creating a bit of a distance between us it will help.

 

[scats]

It wouldn’t worry me at all at this stage. A lot of horses can be nappy about being alone or in the front and it’s very early days. He doesn’t know you or the area yet. Millie used to be a nightmare out on the roads and will still throw the occasional idiotic thing in, regardless of whether we are headed out or headed home. Fortunately I have worked out a system for minimal spinning and rearing now. It’s just time, patience and repetition.

 

[Birker2020]

It wouldn’t worry me at all at this stage. A lot of horses can be nappy about being alone or in the front and it’s very early days. He doesn’t know you or the area yet. Millie used to be a nightmare out on the roads and will still throw the occasional idiotic thing in, regardless of whether we are headed out or headed home. Fortunately I have worked out a system for minimal spinning and rearing now. It’s just time, patience and repetition.

Thank you. Yes it is as you say, time patience and repetition. I feel so pleased with other areas I'm determined to not let this cloud my opinion of him as I'm truly smitten.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Just wanted to say Pink Powder made 2 of the most sensible hacking horses both in company and alone, challenging. I would take him off that asap.
He sounds lovely!

 

[Birker2020]

Just wanted to say Pink Powder made 2 of the most sensible hacking horses both in company and alone, challenging. I would take him off that asap.
He sounds lovely!

Aww, thank you!

Yes he was only on pink powder because I'd got an unopened tub as I used to feed it Bails due to our grass is so rich (ex dairy) and I was worried about him contracting colic.

I think i will taper him off it just in case. I mentioned possibly taking him off it in reply 5 of this post and was thinking as I wrote it that someone on here had said Pink Powder could have adverse effects so it probably was you. How strange it should have that effect.

 

[Red-1]

If you want something nice for tummies, NAF Thrive has that effect, and also makes them dozy. Only give it to skinny ones though, as it gives them the appetite of four horses!!!

 

[MereChristmas]

“ our grass is so rich (ex dairy) “

Just a thought.. has he come from ‘ordinary’ grass?
There might be just too much goodies in his tummy at the moment and an imbalance of minerals. Possible Spring grass syndrome in the autumn coupled with being unsure at a new home?

 

[MereChristmas]

oops, double posted

 

[Birker2020]

“ our grass is so rich (ex dairy) “

Just a thought.. has he come from ‘ordinary’ grass?
There might be just too much goodies in his tummy at the moment and an imbalance of minerals. Possible Spring grass syndrome in the autumn coupled with being unsure at a new home?

Yes from ordinary grass. Our grass has always been very rich, he developed hamster cheeks and I posted it about it on here, that must have been due to the grass.

 

[MereChristmas]

Yes from ordinary grass. Our grass has always been very rich, he developed hamster cheeks and I posted it about it on here, that must have been due to the grass.

I would try first cutting down grazing time on the good grass and increasing hay, preferably soaked. Also just grazing poorer grass may help.

 

[Sprat]

I'm hoping when I get my trailer back from the mechanic I can start introducing quieter hacks on early Sunday mornings like I used to do. Park up at the pub car park and go round lovely quiet lanes. Hopefully I can persuade my partner and the dog to come with me, if I can drag him from his bed.

He did promise me he would start doing this with us but I can't see it myself, he seems disinterested in doing anything too active which is a shame although he works very hard on the three days a week he does work.

I've got someone to go with one of the weekend days and hopefully can find someone for the other day and will start introducing Lari going in front to start the ball rolling. If I can develop that a bit and maybe then start creating a bit of a distance between us it will help.

What sort of location are you in Birker? I'm sure there must be some local HHO's who would be happy to meet up and hack when you are back on the road.

I echo all of the above, solo hacks are a big thing to ask of a horse, especially one so new to you, and you to him. I have owned my mare for 5 years, and just this weekend I still had to take her around the village twice because the giant plonker let her brain fall out of her ears on a solo hack. Keep at it, you'll both get there.

 

[splashgirl45]

glad to hear that you really like him, its always a bit of a lottery when you finally get them home and realise this is it!! he sounds like he is a but unsure and if possible it may be better to hack with company for a while, someone on foot or on a bike is usually enough to give them a bit of reassurance. im sure you will get there in the end...good luck..

maybe worth giving him soaked hay in place of some of the haylage, mine used to get very excited on haylage, even the high fibre ones..

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Aww, thank you!

Yes he was only on pink powder because I'd got an unopened tub as I used to feed it Bails due to our grass is so rich (ex dairy) and I was worried about him contracting colic.

I think i will taper him off it just in case. I mentioned possibly taking him off it in reply 5 of this post and was thinking as I wrote it that someone on here had said Pink Powder could have adverse effects so it probably was you. How strange it should have that effect.

It also made them both footy, you should have seen us dancing along a stony bridleway! -I think they were both fully shod at the time, as far as I remember, so their feet must have been very tender

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

I went through this with the big Ginge (ex SJ DWB) when I got him 3 years ago. He was very spooky and spinny I spent a fair few rides suddenly facing the opposite direction due to mainly terrifying small twigs and was very difficult to take out alone. I got off and led him around if I couldn’t ride him past so we always did a circular route. In retrospect I asked too much too soon bearing in mind I’m a middle-aged amateur not up for a battle.

He’s a totally different chap now and hacks happily alone (although with dog) and in company. He’s particularly come on in leaps and bounds this year since I got transport and we’ve upped our experiences. I feel like we are really gelling this year.

My take away is it’s a journey not a destination and a long term partnership is worth spending time on. Don’t be in a hurry to do everything in a short time and enjoy the experience of working out how to get the best out of him.

 

[humblepie]

I had a horse years ago that just didn't understand hacking out - it took a long time of patience and I would sometimes get off lead him a little way and get back on - that was totally safe with him but not always the answer. He ended up a fab hack - I just think he had been schooled and schooled and knew very little of life. It is trying to out think the horse and take it in little chunks. Good luck with him.

 

[NightStock]

Lari is a distant relative of my Holsteiner mare and she (now retired) was always very spooky and spinned when I first had her. She is smaller than Lari but I found her speed and power incredible!

I did find taking her out in hand helped as she got to know some of the local area and we got to know each other a bit better, in a relaxed manner, although does depend on what he is like in hand?

It sounds like you are having fun together anyway and have lots of exciting times ahead!

 

[Peglo]

I took my new one out a few times by herself and she was pretty upset. Nothing silly but a lot of neighing (which I now know she does if she is unsure or worried so I can react to reassure her) and even OH on foot didn’t settle her. So went hacking with her field mate for a bit and then I took her out in hand and worked it up to riding her again. She’s getting better by herself but I’ve still not gone very far. I Stick to routes she knows.

he sounds lovely OP and I’m sure you will have a lot of fun with him. I would also put his name plate up next to Bailey’s so you have them both there. It’s what I plan to do with mine.