Lateral work and engagement behind.. Help!

[Damnation]

Basically I want to progress through the dressage levels with my new mare. (By new I mean I have had her 7 - 8 months !!)

I have a very hard time getting her to do any form of lateral work, let alone doing it in a soft manner!!! I need draw reins and spurs before she will listen to me but I feel that there must be a better way of doing it, as I feel sometimes that I am practically forcing her.
I can't use a schooling whip to make her bring her quaters over as I would be in the next village :eek!: Her evasion is to stick her head in the air, run, fly backwards, open her mouth.

I have tried teaching leg yield etc in hand. She will now do turn on the forehand.. but not softly, that is still a bit of a battle.

I have an instructor who is fab but even she cannot fathom out this mares problem!
Is it a complete p*ss take because she doesn't fancy doing it and she recons that running through a rider with her head in the air means she doesn't have to do it? Or does she genuinely not know what I ask of her.

I have had many different bits in her, Saddler has been, Dentist has been, everything is checked and up to date, no signs of soreness or tension.

She is ridden in an Ideal jessica Saddle, NS Verbindend bit and a drop noseband. Do I continue with draw reins and spurs until she gives over or do the lovely people of HHO have any other ideas? The draw reins are not tight btw, literally so she can't wack her head up and run!

 

[K27]

Is difficult to write a reply as I obv. don't know your horse, but sounds to me like she will find it easier to do lateral work once she has learned how to respond to the seat (weight) aid, and also half halts.

When one of mine who is extremely sensitive and a hot ride, was green and a baby his automatic reaction was to run away from the leg so we had to work out whether to apply more leg pressure to get him more through, or less pressure.

I've been taught never to apply aids at the same time, and then it can't get over complicated ie if you need to apply a forwards or sideways aid, you give and release with the hand as long as the horse is soft first.

As soon as you are able to break down the aids it should all get a lot easier, when mine didn't understand what was required i would just start in walk, move over a step then forwards and then move over and he got the hang of it v quickly, once he had started to move sideways we took the leg off as he was already moving sideways, i also was told to go with him in the sideways movement so that i wasn't blocking through the seat. Once he had the walk mastered we taught him the sideways stuff in a very very slow trot tempo, to give him the time to understand.

If she goes to rush forwards or back wards then i'd sit heavier in the seat for a split second, and then release the pressure as soon as they respond,whilst allowing with the hand so everything is crystal clear.

Everyone has different ideas on schooling in draw reins, if you can take them off whilst practising it may help free her up, and give her her head and neck to balance- but ultimately i think the horse has to understand that if they go round with their head up, they will be pushed through with the leg, and the leg means, come rounder, if they go to be rude in the contact!

Good luck!

 

[Pat10]

Years ago I tried draw reins but found that they restricted the horses ability to bend, and lateral work was very difficult in them (so I have never used them since).

Does your horse move over in the stable when you ask? You could try getting your instructer to use the same command, while you apply the aid for turn about the forehand, and if you get just one or two steps, really praise the horse. Then you can build on this, until you get a few strides of leg yield in walk (some people say never do lateral work in walk, but it's courses for horses!)

This is assuming your horse has no back problem - that would be a block to lateral work.

 

[Damnation]

Thanks guys
The draw reins are literally only tight enough to stop her putting her head up, I only ride in them once a month or so when I really struggle.
Even on the buckle end of the rein, or with a decent contact, she rushes and completely locks herself against me!
I have never had such trouble teaching lateral work before!
She will move over in the stable, move over in hand. I will try and get my instructor to say "over" and give her a gentle prod on her side and see if this works, because I am getting fed up! She is a very capable and intelligent mare but she just seems to have a complete mental block about lateral work!!!

 

[Bug2007]

Try riding shallow loops on the long sides, one she has the idea, ask for her to move across laterally a little more a step at a time.

Think about controlling her shoulders more and let the quarters follow to start with.

Start riding on the inner track and riding squares rather than curved corners,
doing quarter piroettes on the corners, moving her shoulders over making her realise she can move them.

Hope this makes sence.

 

[Tickles]

I'm by no means a dressage diva but every time I've taught lateral work (or at least been the crash test dummy for it!) it has been a question of
- teach in hand
- rider sits on top with same in-hand signals from someone on ground
- rider sits on top and gives ridden aids with same in-hand signals from someone on ground
- rider sits on top and gives ridden aids

Always heaps of praise as soon as you get one lateral step (don't ask for lots to start with) and including only a short amount of this between other things so it doesn't all get too tense.

I wouldn't be happy about using draw reins, spurs or whips to achieve this. If I (still quite beginner rider) can do it with baby cobs and a lot of patience you can certainly do it with a bought-for-dressage horse. Small goals, short sessions, heaps of praise. It'll be much more satisfying if you aren't 'forcing' the horse.

Other exersices to try include
- spiralling in and out on a circle and
- gentle lateral work around obstacles/out hacking

 

[Damnation]

Thanks Tickles..
The mare is funny because she will spiral in and out to the point of canter pirouettes (Well.. our version!!)..
But sideways.. I don't know what it is!!
I suspect that at her last home she was socked in the gob and they were too scared to put their leg on or use their seat so she just runs from everything but a really strong contact!! And runs from my leg so I suppose its a case of making her accept my leg first!
I will start doing shallow loops and make someone watch me so they can help her get the idea of moving over!!
And loads of sneaky moving her over like shallow loops may help, I will take all of your ideas on board guys
D