Laura collett, air jacket did inflate says h&h

[Topaz Tiger]

Interesting article in h&h this morning, it says that Laura's air jacket did inflate before impact.
I event at novice and have so far not been convinced enough to buy an air jacket.
The article says she had a collapsed lung and broken ribs and was not breathing when the paramedics reached her.
Interested in people's thoughts and what P2 will say as it appears it did inflate in this rotational fall, but Laura obviously still sustained some very serious injuries, although I guess they could say it would have been even worse without it.....

 

[TheMule]

I love my Exo, I really dont understand why they never caught on, surely they're the only thing with any chance of preventing crush injuries....

 

[popsdosh]

Just backs up what I said all along when P2 said they would stop serious injury! you are still the meat in the sandwich when a horse falls on you and you still get crushed.
I am not against people using them but they should be told the truth about what they can stop happening.

 

[Topaz Tiger]

I agree about the exo, it seems the best idea. Think the 'meat in the sandwich' was shown rather clearly by poor Laura.
Am sure that the air jackets have their place, but I would only wear it to save from serious injury and as shown here in a very high profile fall, all the typical crush injuries were still sustained, even though it inflated before impact.

 

[lannerch]

Except your so far all missing the point, without the p2 in view of the serious damage she sustained wearing it.... She would probably be dead.
No air jacket , body protector etc can prevent all injury when you have over half a ton rolling on you!

 

[Topaz Tiger]

But lannerch thats exactly what I did say in my original post.

 

[lannerch]

Sorry yes you did , I missed it as you put it as what p2 may say as an excuse for their air jacket, no excuse needed IMO it will be fact. Thank goodness she was wearing it!

 

[only_me]

What body protector was she wearing?

The air jacket can't provide all the protection and the BP has helped also - anyone know the make of her BP?

 

[Topaz Tiger]

Fair point.
But seriously, what I don't understand about the air jackets is that there appears to be no rigidity within the jacket that allows it to maintain its shape when a heavy weight is pressed down on it. It appears, bear with me, physics is not my strong point, that it can deform, therefore not protecting the ribcage within. TBF none of the body protectors can do that apart from the EXO. The only way it could protect, would be if it maintained the same shape when inflated when a heavy weight was placed on it, whether your body was inside it or not, which I believe it doesn't, unlike the EXO.

 

[_GG_]

This may make interesting reading...

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/exo-bodycage-body-protector-faces-an-uncertain-future/

 

[ArcticFox]

I don't think a P2 would stop you from being crushed, I don't wear mine for that reason - I wear it as additional protection and hope that it helps by lessening the injury.

Even her BP wouldn't stop the ton of horse unless its an exo - unfortunately I found it the most uncomfortable BP I have ever worn and sold mine. I found it made my riding much worse. Great idea but didn't work for me.

I have fallen wearing the P2 and BP and I do believe it helped my fall - thankfully it didn't involve a horse landing on me, but whether the P2 helped at all or not, I'm relieved to hear Laura is on the mend.

 

[Fanatical]

In my opinion, no matter what safety protection we choose to wear, the sport of eventing is high risk and we could all easily end up seriously injured or worse, regardless of what we wear.

The EXO probably is the best in terms of helping to prevent being crushed, but that is no good if you have broken your neck on your way down. There is always an element of risk there that will never be wiped out entirely.

I wear a P2 and have up until now, thought that if it saves me a few bruises and makes me less sore after a fall then great - it doesn't do much harm to wear it, and I don't even notice it when I have it on.

The fact that Laura had hers on and it DID inflate before the horse came down on her makes me even more keen to wear mine. In my opinion, given the serious injuries she sustained, her air jacket most probably saved her life on this occasion, even if it was a momentary cushioning effect that took even a little of the impact away from her.

 

[Nicnac]

In my opinion, no matter what safety protection we choose to wear, the sport of eventing is high risk and we could all easily end up seriously injured or worse, regardless of what we wear.

The EXO probably is the best in terms of helping to prevent being crushed, but that is no good if you have broken your neck on your way down. There is always an element of risk there that will never be wiped out entirely.

I wear a P2 and have up until now, thought that if it saves me a few bruises and makes me less sore after a fall then great - it doesn't do much harm to wear it, and I don't even notice it when I have it on.

The fact that Laura had hers on and it DID inflate before the horse came down on her makes me even more keen to wear mine. In my opinion, given the serious injuries she sustained, her air jacket most probably saved her life on this occasion, even if it was a momentary cushioning effect that took even a little of the impact away from her.

Top response ^^

For LC to be in a critical condition and intubated on Monday, 8th July to walking on Monday, 15th July and discharged evening of 16th July is nothing short of miraculous.

Wishing her a speedy, full recovery.

 

[dafthoss]

Except your so far all missing the point, without the p2 in view of the serious damage she sustained wearing it.... She would probably be dead.
No air jacket , body protector etc can prevent all injury when you have over half a ton rolling on you!

But without 2 identical falls, one with a p2 and one without it can't be proved it was the p2 that saved her.

 

[Dunlin]

Interesting thread with lots of different opinions. It's good that Laura's P2 did inflate as the worry with them is if you are involved in a rotational fall it is possible that you won't come away from the horse enough to trigger the system.

I did have a P2 jacket but very recently I chopped it in for a WW EXO Bodycage that came up on eBay. I wanted the EXO from the start but after clicking on every single stockist via the EXO website I found that not one place had them in stock. I thought this was just due to them being very popular but I'm not so sure now after reading the news that the patent has been sold to WW. Looking at the WW website they don't even mention the EXO let alone stock it.

I do like the EXO, it's pretty heavy and rigid but I'm slowly getting used to it. At the moment I am looking at cobbling some RP shoulder pads onto it. I have to say it's a lot less faff putting the EXO on rather than my airowear followed by the P2. I'm neurotic and no matter what I am doing (hack, lesson, jump) I wear every bit of kit I own and I often forgot to plug the P2 in, no chance of that happening with the EXO. I have had a very minor fall in the EXO and I was doing a good impression of an upturned turtle but then the same thing happened in another minor tumble wearing the P2 so I don't think there's much difference between the 2 in terms of not being able to roll easily. It doesn't bother me too much though as I don't think anyone has time to roll away from a rotational.

Back onto Laura, I am very pleased to hear she is doing well and hoping to go home or to the Jockey rehab centre today.

 

[mrussell]

so I also bought hubby a P2 in the last couple of weeks... more from a cushioning point of view than from a crush aspect. I truly believe that no matter how experienced you are and how many precautions youve taken, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, not even an army of angels is going to help you.

I dont believe there is a safety product out there that can cover all possibilites but if swapping treads in your stirrups, buying a new hat, changing your make of gloves, putting on an air jacket or refusing to turn your inside-out pants back round the right way works, go with it. You never know what just might make the difference.....

 

[Nic]

This may make interesting reading...

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/exo-bodycage-body-protector-faces-an-uncertain-future/

Really confused as i thought it ceased to be on sale years ago?!

 

[_GG_]

Really confused as i thought it ceased to be on sale years ago?!

I wouldn't know...i googled it as wanted to see what it was like having had my horse on top of me 5 weeks ago.

That was the first result....updated March this year.

The article says the designers have donated the patent to the RDA. Admirable...it would be good to know what happens with it.

Seems like a great product but as with many, not without its faults.

 

[MiaBella]

As has already been said, unless you can have an identical fall without the air jacket its not possible to know how much it helped or hindered (I do worry that when they go off in a crush injury they may add to the crush as they inflate).

Plenty of people used to walk away from horrific looking falls before body protectors and air jackets, plenty didn't

 

[longdog]

I love my Exo, I really dont understand why they never caught on, surely they're the only thing with any chance of preventing crush injuries....

The problem with the Exo was the company marketing them. We applied to stock them, along with Airowear, How's, Rodney Powell & Champion & couldn't get them

 

[SpottedCat]

I'm another who loves the exo. I agree, they were very poorly marketed by Woof, which is a shame. Re the air jacket - doubtless there will be a million advertorials now proclaiming it saved her life - and who knows, maybe it did. But that's just the point, none of us know because the testing hasn't been done despite it being pretty easy to do.

 

[Zebedee]

Lots of interesting comments on here
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ody-Cage-Back-Protectors-and-Rotational-Falls
including contributions from the inventor of the Exo. I think what put a lot of people of was the myth perpetuated that you needed an allen key to remove them if the medics needed to work on you.

 

[SpottedCat]

Lots of interesting comments on here
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...ody-Cage-Back-Protectors-and-Rotational-Falls
including contributions from the inventor of the Exo. I think what put a lot of people of was the myth perpetuated that you needed an allen key to remove them if the medics needed to work on you.

I interviewed a well known rider when they first came out - he said he loved the concept but would never wear one as he didn't think they looked 'professional' enough. I strongly suspect that like wearing a crash hat with tails, and like the success of air jackets, if Woof had bothered to get enough top riders wearing them, then the exo would be a bit more ubiquitous. Also, lets remember that BE did a pretty good hatchet job on them by getting starters to tell people they thought they shouldn't be riding in them. This may be cynical of me, but given who some of the major sponsors of BE are, it's not exactly surprising that they weren't keen on a more protective product becoming popular.

Anyway, I'll wear mine until the inevitable day BE tell me I can't, which I suspect won't be too far away, and then I guess I'll get an airjacket.

 

[teapot]

But without 2 identical falls, one with a p2 and one without it can't be proved it was the p2 that saved her.

Exactly.

I wouldn't know...i googled it as wanted to see what it was like having had my horse on top of me 5 weeks ago.

That was the first result....updated March this year.

The article says the designers have donated the patent to the RDA. Admirable...it would be good to know what happens with it.

Seems like a great product but as with many, not without its faults.

Interesting that RDA has the patent. Body protectors are a double edged sword for us RDA volunteers...

 

[_GG_]

Exactly.



Interesting that RDA has the patent. Body protectors are a double edged sword for us RDA volunteers...

My old mare was competed by two disabled people. A teenager and a lady in her late 60's. Both were advised to wear body protectors, neither could ride if they did.

I used to volunteer with RDA many years ago and can't imagine it being that easy tbh.

 

[ArcticFox]

Also, lets remember that BE did a pretty good hatchet job on them by getting starters to tell people they thought they shouldn't be riding in them. .

Did they really do this??

or is this a bit of hearsay. I'm only asking as I have been to loads of events wearing orange stirrups for competing in SJ and XC and have had a couple of people say that I shouldn't as its against the rules. After approaching BE to find out it turns out it was just the stewards themselves giving their opinion rather than someone had told them (even though this is what they said to me)

I now have written permission from BE, and it was only two events that I went to out of loads but perhaps it was personal opinion?


having had a body cage I don't see the allan key problem as there is a couple attached to the BP!

 

[SpottedCat]

I've had it said to me, and there was someone on here, who IIRC competed at 3* or 4* in one and was advised by the starter not to wear it.

Although you're right, I didn't bother following it up with BE so perhaps it wasn't a direction from them - though I was told it was.

Plus the ridiculousness of having to put your name on a list with the secretary so they can tell people you're wearing one - IMO as a perfectly acceptable bit of kit, paramedics shouldn't need to be warned you are going XC in one! As you say, they have two allen keys in them, and since the cage is simply a frame, they could easily take a scalpel or a pair of scissors to the foam inserts as you can with a normal BP, so quite why the high drama about them I do not know!

 

[Goldenstar]

She had an awful fall the type riders dread she's injured but alive and it seems she will fully recover .
It would seem to be a good reason to wear an air jacket.

 

[SpottedCat]

She had an awful fall the type riders dread she's injured but alive and it seems she will fully recover .
It would seem to be a good reason to wear an air jacket.

Except that coincidence is not causality. There's absolutely no way of knowing what the outcome would be if she hadn't been wearing an air jacket - and other people have survived rotational falls before air jackets were standard XC wear.

It's not even that I don't think it could have helped - it might well have done. But there is a long established scientific principle relating to risk taking which shows that the safer you perceive yourself to be, the more risks you are likely to take, so assuming wearing an air jacket makes you safer, might actually have the opposite effect.

 

[kit279]

In addition to which, I have some vague wonderings about whether the air jacket inflated before or after the fall, in which case it begs the question whether it was a help or a hindrance with fractured ribs and lung contusions. I've seen how tight the jackets are and if I had a flail chest or similar, I wonder whether it would be a good or bad thing to be wearing one..