jess2353
Well-Known Member
Does it say in the law how slow or fast you have to drive by a horse on a public road ?
Law and horses. ?
- Thread starter jess2353
- Start date
sophiebailey
Well-Known Member
No I think there's just a recommendation in the highway code that drivers should pass slowly and wide. Doesn't state how slow 'slowly' is.
If a driver caused an accident as a result of driving too quickly past a horse it could be argued he was driving without due care + attention or caused injury by dangerous driving etc.
If a driver caused an accident as a result of driving too quickly past a horse it could be argued he was driving without due care + attention or caused injury by dangerous driving etc.
PeterNatt
Well-Known Member
Horse riders and horse-drawn vehicles 216 Page 73 The Official Highway Code Revised 2007 edition
'Be particularly careful of horse riders and horse drawn vehicles especially when overtaking. Always pass wide and slowly. Horse riders are often children, so take extra care and remember riders may ride in double file when escorting a young or inexperienced horse or rider. Look out for horse riders' and horse drivers' signals and heed a request to slow down or stop. Take great care and treat all horses as a potential hazard; they can be unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver'.
May I also suggest that you wear a long sleeved Hi-Viz jacket so that other road users can clearly see your hand signals and that if you have not already done so you take the BHS Road Safety Course.
'Be particularly careful of horse riders and horse drawn vehicles especially when overtaking. Always pass wide and slowly. Horse riders are often children, so take extra care and remember riders may ride in double file when escorting a young or inexperienced horse or rider. Look out for horse riders' and horse drivers' signals and heed a request to slow down or stop. Take great care and treat all horses as a potential hazard; they can be unpredictable, despite the efforts of their rider/driver'.
May I also suggest that you wear a long sleeved Hi-Viz jacket so that other road users can clearly see your hand signals and that if you have not already done so you take the BHS Road Safety Course.
moana
Well-Known Member
Certainly not legal, but the usual recommendation is 15mph.
ROG
Well-Known Member
Does not define the word 'WIDE' either
Best practice in a standard manual car is 2nd gear, low revs and use all the road space possible if the 'pass by' is safe in the first place
Pass by - could be approaching from behind or front
If in a lorry then avoid using the parkbrake as the noise could be a problem
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
Of course this doesn't account for the local numpty rider near me who sits at an out of control trot waving frantically past.
No way I could pass wide and slow so I don't...
I'm always under the assumption that if horse flew into me in that situation I'd still be at fault.
No way I could pass wide and slow so I don't...
I'm always under the assumption that if horse flew into me in that situation I'd still be at fault.
PeterNatt
Well-Known Member
The Official Highway Code - Revised 2007 Edition
'Give motorcyclists, cyclists and horseriders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car'.
'Give motorcyclists, cyclists and horseriders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car'.
Toby_Zaphod
Well-Known Member
Quoting the Highway Code is fine however the Highway Code is advice & not law, although some aspects have become law.
Offences relating to driving at speed past horses would be Driving without due care & consideration for other road users. As far as I am aware there is no specific offence relating to horses. The onus is on the prosecution to prove the driver drove inconsiderately. Additionally, as in many law issues, words & phrases are to be interpreted as per the circumstances of the case. So the speed or closeness a driver passes someone in one case & ruled inconsiderate may alter in another. It all depends on the prevailing circumstances.
There are very little black & white areas in law just many shades of grey which move with the circumstances of the incident.
Offences relating to driving at speed past horses would be Driving without due care & consideration for other road users. As far as I am aware there is no specific offence relating to horses. The onus is on the prosecution to prove the driver drove inconsiderately. Additionally, as in many law issues, words & phrases are to be interpreted as per the circumstances of the case. So the speed or closeness a driver passes someone in one case & ruled inconsiderate may alter in another. It all depends on the prevailing circumstances.
There are very little black & white areas in law just many shades of grey which move with the circumstances of the incident.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
3 years after coming to England (with an International driving permit) I had to take the damn driving test again. I failed the first time - one stupid question leaving the yard (I asked if he wanted me to go left or right - there was a no left turn sign!!) The 2nd because I 'failed to make sufficient progress' passing a group of point-to-pointers on the road, one of which was VERY on its toes and going sideways with a numpty jockey!! I took GREAT pleasure in *******ing the examiner fo being quite so unaware of the danders that hose presented and just how fast it could have ended up on the car bonnet! I went to a different test station the next time and passed! Didn't meet any horses!
jess2353
Well-Known Member
thanks for all your replys. I only asked as I always believed that is was 15mph you should pass at if that's a responsible speed.
but the thread was created due to a friend asking me(non horsey) about It, his come into some bother with his neighbour, he passed her and a friend out riding their horses on the road where they keep the horses(private back garden) and one of the horses spooked and trotted sideways before letting out a mighty buck which kicked a car which belonged to another neighbour. and now both parties are trying go get my friend to pay for exspences claiming that he was driving (above) the recommendations of the Highway Code when it came to passing horses.
the car damage has reached a whopping £524 and the horse is under going veterinary treatment after it kicked out at the car.
I don't personally know the riders but I have heard from several people that the horse that spooked is well known for being touchy being only 4. and I have been told its had other incidents involving other cars.
Friend does claim he was going about 20mph and had his music on low and the car being an older car does have a noisy engine. rather silly situation to get into, but living next door to one of the riders is causing him hell
but the thread was created due to a friend asking me(non horsey) about It, his come into some bother with his neighbour, he passed her and a friend out riding their horses on the road where they keep the horses(private back garden) and one of the horses spooked and trotted sideways before letting out a mighty buck which kicked a car which belonged to another neighbour. and now both parties are trying go get my friend to pay for exspences claiming that he was driving (above) the recommendations of the Highway Code when it came to passing horses.
the car damage has reached a whopping £524 and the horse is under going veterinary treatment after it kicked out at the car.
I don't personally know the riders but I have heard from several people that the horse that spooked is well known for being touchy being only 4. and I have been told its had other incidents involving other cars.
Friend does claim he was going about 20mph and had his music on low and the car being an older car does have a noisy engine. rather silly situation to get into, but living next door to one of the riders is causing him hell
*hic*
village idiot :D
I drive older cars. They don't have noisy exhausts.
jess2353
Well-Known Member
he said engine but I dunno haven't seen the car myself i just know its an old farm motor
*hic*
village idiot :D
My bad, I read your post wrong. However, my old cars don't have noisy engines either!
jess2353
Well-Known Member
you must be lucky then I've heard plenty that do
I've heard plenty that do sophiebailey
Well-Known Member
That's a tricky one :-( I'd say he'd be best to offer to go 50/50 as neither party (in the absence of independant witnesses) would be able to prove if the other were at fault.
But if they've not taken it to court or via insurance I'd tell them to do one. Although 15mph is stated as the guideline, most cars never slow down to this speed to pass me ;(
But if they've not taken it to court or via insurance I'd tell them to do one. Although 15mph is stated as the guideline, most cars never slow down to this speed to pass me ;(
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
By whom?
This is not something I've ever heard and the 2 posters whose opinion/knowledge I respect about such matters have certainly not quoted that anywhere on this thread.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
I'd tell both parties to contact their insurance companies and let them sort it out.
If I were riding a 4yo who bucked and kicked out at a slightly noisy old car passing me at 20mph, provided the car had given me reasonable room then I'd probably accept fault on the accident
If I were riding a 4yo who bucked and kicked out at a slightly noisy old car passing me at 20mph, provided the car had given me reasonable room then I'd probably accept fault on the accident
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
If the horse was close enough to a parked car to kick it, then the car should not have been passing the horse imo, but should have waited until there was room to pass safely.
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
If I were him and my car hadn't been kicked id simply notify the police I'd witnessed an incident with all details.
I'd be advising my insurance company of this too (as ihatework says) and request her horse insurance details to pass on (i assume this would be standard like with car insurance?) and let them know that the 4yo/rider had a history of road accidents if I knew this as a certainty. I'd tell them speed, location etc and then leave then to it. You may find they aren't interested in pursuing it depending on her insurance And other car insurance companies. Last time I reported a potential claim my insurance simply ignored as it was never chased from the other side.
I'd be advising my insurance company of this too (as ihatework says) and request her horse insurance details to pass on (i assume this would be standard like with car insurance?) and let them know that the 4yo/rider had a history of road accidents if I knew this as a certainty. I'd tell them speed, location etc and then leave then to it. You may find they aren't interested in pursuing it depending on her insurance And other car insurance companies. Last time I reported a potential claim my insurance simply ignored as it was never chased from the other side.
jess2353
Well-Known Member
The parked car was infront of the horse the horse trotted forward plus the road is big enough to have 3 lanes technically its got a flat dirt track right beside the road
jess2353
Well-Known Member
I think insurance details have been exchanged now not sure on the progress of them though
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
The rough track at the side is only any good if the parked car was on the track!
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
Out of interest where has the 500 odd figure come from? Don't pay in cash! Insurance will do their own valuations of the work required and decide who will be paying. Don't deal with it out of insurance though as you may find that they go for cash and then sting you a second time through insurance.
Festive g - by me there are 2 way roads with laybys for parked cars. So could pass with over a car width of room and horse could still boot a car with no wrong doing on drivers side.
Festive g - by me there are 2 way roads with laybys for parked cars. So could pass with over a car width of room and horse could still boot a car with no wrong doing on drivers side.
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
I guess we all visualise the roads round where we live In that case here, there are few roads where there is room to pass a horse passing a parked car, not that it stops people trying!
In that case here, there are few roads where there is room to pass a horse passing a parked car, not that it stops people trying!jess2353
Well-Known Member
it wasn't it was parked on the road the track is the other side but its wide enough to drive down to pass about 2 car widths and maybe a bit more, so he didn't pass them when they was passing the car and he allowed a good distance between himself and the horses. the horse trotted forward side ways got to close to the parked car then as it got too close it bucked. but my friends car hadn't even passed the horses at this point. He said he had just pulled out when the younger horse started having a moment
jess2353
Well-Known Member
it's a big old road it's farm land on the otherside and the horses normally ride on the track not on the road.
The figure was quoted from their local garage friend said to them get it valued to keep the peace over Xmas as there's been a few nasty letters passing about
The figure was quoted from their local garage friend said to them get it valued to keep the peace over Xmas as there's been a few nasty letters passing about
PandorasJar
Well-Known Member
Ah was it private land then?
You may have an issue with insurance company. They're a ****** for accidents on private land/car parks etc. Either way I'd go to insurance and police still.
Festive g we have tonnes like that locally too, but ironically it's the riders wanting me to pass on those roads when I don't want to! I refuse to pass a horse on a single lane round a corner no matter how much the rider waves at me to do so, would much rather engine off and sit tight.
You may have an issue with insurance company. They're a ****** for accidents on private land/car parks etc. Either way I'd go to insurance and police still.
Festive g we have tonnes like that locally too, but ironically it's the riders wanting me to pass on those roads when I don't want to! I refuse to pass a horse on a single lane round a corner no matter how much the rider waves at me to do so, would much rather engine off and sit tight.
jess2353
Well-Known Member
the dirt track is private land it's the farmers land but the horses were on on a public road as was my friend. But I was just saying that the farm track alongside the road allows extra room to pass widely
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
I'd say how close & the manner of driving were more likely to effect the outcome. If the horse was already looking out of control, even to a non horsey driver, & jigging sideways, & he decided to overtake at 20mph & too close, then I'd say he could have contributed to the accident. Whereas passing two calm looking horses at 20mph at a good distance then probably not.
Was the 4yr old on the outside or were they riding double with youngster on the inside? Because if the 4yr old is known to not be experienced enough to be safe with cars passing at 20mph at a safe distance, & the riders still chose to not keep it on the inside, it could be argued the riders weren't being responsible. And what's the speed limit (or usual safe speed) of cars on that stretch of road? Again, if cars usually travel at 50 on that stretch, its a different scenario to if its a 20 zone.
Was the 4yr old on the outside or were they riding double with youngster on the inside? Because if the 4yr old is known to not be experienced enough to be safe with cars passing at 20mph at a safe distance, & the riders still chose to not keep it on the inside, it could be argued the riders weren't being responsible. And what's the speed limit (or usual safe speed) of cars on that stretch of road? Again, if cars usually travel at 50 on that stretch, its a different scenario to if its a 20 zone.
jess2353
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure on position of the 4yo but they are quite knowledge horse owners and have had many young horses between them. I think it's 50mph it's not a well built up place has a row of about 5 houses then its mostly farm land for a good mile or so. It's quite a busy road as lorries use it to deliver goods to a super market couple miles down the road