"Lazy" Dales

[Nudibranch]

I have a 7yo Dales, backed and brought on myself and have owned her since she was a 3yo. She's what you would in the past have called lazy. Always has been.

She can be reluctant to trot and canter and is a bit flat showing. Always on the slim side. She's does do the stopping for a wee several times before she goes but that's the only unusual behaviour. Fully sound. Has the odd spooky day but pretty sensible. She is fit and copes well in terms of breathing and heart rate. Super feet. Negative for pssm1 but not tested for any type 2 variants. There's really nothing awful and nothing which flags a workup as she has always been this way but I feel like we might be missing something energy wise.

She's out 24/7 and when we moved in March I dropped all feed and supplements apart from their salt lick. She was if anything a bit less spooky in general as a result and her feet look better than ever.

I'm thinking of going the old school route and chucking some oats at her but I also have pssm 2 in the back of my mind. I went down that rabbit hole with a very symptomatic horse in the past (it was multi issues in the end) and I'm wary of blaming every little thing on it because I see a lot of people on social media attributing what are clearly lameness issues to pssm without ever doing a proper workup. But she's sound and fit, just flat. Is anyone up to date with the most recent thoughts for feeding type 2 variants?

 

[Dexter]

Have you had anyone check out her bloodlines for you? Sadly type 2 is rampant among Dales ponies. I know with welshies there's people who have done a ton of research into blood lines and can give a strong indication from breeding alone.

Type 2 doesn't have any definitive feeding advice sadly, It varies a lot. But the one thing I would try immediately is a max dose of tri aminos, magnesium and vitamin e. It wont hurt but it would be a good place to start. If it helps then you can start tweaking it from there, and if it doesn't all you've lost is a few quid.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I had one of a good friends Dales mares for a couple of yrs, she was rock steady and quite 'lazy'.
The one thing that got her buzzing was taking her drag hunting, she adored it and we actually found 4th gear! That led on to her 'getting' XC in a decent gear instead of poddling.
She had had lots of testing to rule things out, but nothing found. That whole line were just lovely natured steady ponies, her daughter is same.

 

[millikins]

Our Dales mare is rather too buzzy but we think her son might turn out a bit lazy. He's rising 2 so not done anything but he's so chilled he's verging on horizontal.
Our Eriskay mare came into her own drag hunting, she also did really well on oats, just gave her that lift without sending her loopy.

 

[SEL]

I know a few Dales owners with ones likes yours but they've tested negative for PSSM 2 and 1 - but muscle biopsy showing signs of a myopathy in 2 cases.

My own can be a bit like that at times but after an accident earlier in the year a full vet work-up found some skeletal issues and given she's a lot better on pain relief I'm guessing that's the main issue. Her muscles are definitely tighter on grass though and as she pops electric fencing from a standstill we got to test that a few times over the summer.

Doesn't do well on balancers but got her field mates rejected lamicore last year and really perked up on it. Magnesium seems to be an issue whereas their calcium one worked well for her.

Also does better after a good gallop. I let her choose the pace because of her breathing issues and if she can have a really good run then her muscles definitely soften.

Very possibly an underlying myopathy but I can't be bothered with the type 2 tests until Equiseq knuckle down and back up their genetic tests with some actual research on actual muscles.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Think my cob has a fair bit of Dales in him, and he had a lot of issues with flat feet and recurring thrush before a good trimmer got to grips with it. I can second the hunting.....we only took him once, and he turned into a turbo charged lunatic. Never again.

 

[SEL]

Think my cob has a fair bit of Dales in him, and he had a lot of issues with flat feet and recurring thrush before a good trimmer got to grips with it. I can second the hunting.....we only took him once, and he turned into a turbo charged lunatic. Never again.

We were in hearing distance of the hunt recently and I had the Thelwell version of Valegro on the way home. She was pretty jolly the next day too which makes me think she's got a bit bored over winter.

 

[tda]

Not really up to date with PSSSM2 it's a huge learning curve, but it does seem as tho your pony could possibly have some issue Nudibranch

Dexter, interesting you say it's rampant in the dales breed, any info you can share as I only know of 2 ponies with a defined muscle myopathy , neither 0f which was pssm 2

 

[eahotson]

I have a gypsy cob like this.She is just a very laid back easy going girl.Its what I wanted and I feel lucky to have her.She wouldn't suit everyone but then no horse is.Learn to love her for what she is or let her go to someone who will.There are a lot of people out there who would love her.

 

[Dexter]

Not really up to date with PSSSM2 it's a huge learning curve, but it does seem as tho your pony could possibly have some issue Nudibranch

Dexter, interesting you say it's rampant in the dales breed, any info you can share as I only know of 2 ponies with a defined muscle myopathy , neither 0f which was pssm 2

Not my breed Im afraid, but if you post on the PSSM facebook groups they will tell you more.I vaguely remember someone posting about specific stallions I think but natives arent my thing so I didn't pay enough attention to remember specifics. There was a young girl with one that had 3 different types/genes though, which I did remember as it was so sad.

 

[paddy555]

Not really up to date with PSSSM2 it's a huge learning curve, but it does seem as tho your pony could possibly have some issue Nudibranch

Dexter, interesting you say it's rampant in the dales breed, any info you can share as I only know of 2 ponies with a defined muscle myopathy , neither 0f which was pssm 2

this group seems to have now gone, presumably to FB, however this post is interesting and if you go to the post index there is a thread/section on PSSM.

https://dalesfans.proboards.com/thread/25733/rory

NB if you know your horse's breeding you could try asking on the dales forum/FB page.

 

[paddy555]

She's does do the stopping for a wee several times before she goes but that's the only unusual behaviour. r

do you mean you are riding along and get to a canter stretch, push on into a canter and the horse stops for a wee? If so my haffy used to do that. Once he was treated he stopped doing it. It was a very noticeable symptom. He had cushings from a very early age and I suspect that, he was more than likely PSSM as well.

over 40 years ago I had a summer job, we had around 20 fells, dales and highlands. Obviously PSSM was unheard of then. They fell into 2 distinct groups. The majority of each breed were lazy and very reliable. There were a very small number of exceptions. They were brilliant, badly behaved, doing a gate took hours as there was no way they would ever stand still. They just wanted to go. They were fab crazy, naughty horses to ride. The rest you fell asleep on. I have often wondered if they had PSSM problems. There were too many that were identical for them all to be ill/unsound in some way.

 

[tda]

this group seems to have now gone, presumably to FB, however this post is interesting and if you go to the post index there is a thread/section on PSSM.

https://dalesfans.proboards.com/thread/25733/rory

NB if you know your horse's breeding you could try asking on the dales forum/FB page.

Ah yes I forgot about Rory
Still so much to learn about Pssm, hopefully as genetic science becomes more readily available and reliable tests developed issues like this can be explored

 

[maya2008]

I would try the oats first. My 13hh New Forest is getting 3/4 of a jam jar full after exercise now it’s winter. It’s truly done wonders - she has perked up and has much more energy. Little 12hh Welsh A is getting a proportionate amount for his size and it has also worked for him.

 

[Nudibranch]

"Learn to love her for what she is or let her go to someone who will.There are a lot of people out there who would love her."

Goodness, there's no amount of money anyone could offer to make me part with her. She's going nowhere. She's an amazing hack and partner in crime. I'm just mildly concerned - for her own welfare - that she's lacking in energy.

 

[eahotson]

"Learn to love her for what she is or let her go to someone who will.There are a lot of people out there who would love her."

Goodness, there's no amount of money anyone could offer to make me part with her. She's going nowhere. She's an amazing hack and partner in crime. I'm just mildly concerned - for her own welfare - that she's lacking in energy.

I am pleased to hear that.

 

[SEL]

"Learn to love her for what she is or let her go to someone who will.There are a lot of people out there who would love her."

Goodness, there's no amount of money anyone could offer to make me part with her. She's going nowhere. She's an amazing hack and partner in crime. I'm just mildly concerned - for her own welfare - that she's lacking in energy.

Is she getting enough protein? My hay is quite high in protein but I think most UK hays are low. I was thinking how much my little Dales pepped up on pure feeds and the one I used was a higher protein%

 

[ycbm]

Always on the slim side.

This is what catches my eye in your post. Mine isn't, I don't think, PSSM 2 and tests clear for PSSM 1, but he does have a vitamin E myopathy of some kind. I supplement him all year round and he still gets a reading on the low side of the normal range. If he doesn't get enough, he needs vast quantities of food to keep him at 3/5 condition score.

I would definitely be trying vitamin E, especially at this time of year, when I suspect many ordinary horses could also do with it until the spring grass comes through.
.

 

[Nudibranch]

Thanks all. I'll up the protein and start her on vitamin e then. I could add tri aminos but I'll not chuck everything in at once or I won't know what works!
I've just found out one of her dam's lines carry P3 and P4 so it's a possibility.