Lazy horse - anyone used a Libby's RS-Tor?

Snowy Celandine

Snowy Celandine

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One of my horses is very lazy and I am working hard to get him more forward thinking. Walk and trot are coming on nicely but canter is still a problem. He isn't generally forward in canter and not very sensitive to the leg either. Rather than kicking him along I prefer to give a short tap behind my leg with my schooling whip but this always makes him buck and he's nearly unseated me a couple of times which is annoying.

I was thinking about the RS-Tor and wondering if it might help? He often does small bucks which are easy to sit to but, when I tap him with the schooling whip he can put in a few bigger bucks and I thought that having something to grab hold of might help me feel more secure? I don't want him to think that he can unseat me as a way of avoiding work :D

Also, is it possible to get a lazy horse to think more forwards or will he always be hard work? He's really well put together for his breed (Highland) and tracks up effortlessly. He doesn't actually look lazy at all when you see him being ridden but, as the rider, you know that he isn't giving it his all :(
 
Also, is it possible to get a lazy horse to think more forwards or will he always be hard work?
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Definately.

No. 1 take it out of the school - and ditch your schooling whip, going for a nice short stick instead.

No. 2 take it hunting or any kind of 'horse party' which is going to be fun, fast and furious.

No. 3 look at what you're feeding, and consider higher energy feeds.

No. 4 look at ensuring you canter regularly on hacks - especially in the same place. It will result in the horse becomming very off your leg, as it starts to anticipate the faster (and more fun) pace.

Been there, and done it all with a very stubborn little mare - who turned out to be a cracker!
 
Ditto AmyMay.
When you have something lazy to school, they are generally the types that will go sour in the school quickly.
Try and vary everything so something different every day. One day lunge, the next day trot poles, the next day jump, the next day hack, the next day school.
If you have access to various fields and arena's that you can ride in that will help :)
 
Thanks amymay. Should have said, he's a lot better out on hacks when cantering is fun! I'm waiting for my trailer to be serviced at the moment as chap who does it for me is busy until end of month and then we'll get out and about with both horses and have some FUN :D

I'm not an expert on nutrition so will ask YO about feed. This horse has a tendency to put on weight so I don't want to exacerbate that problem. I've had to put him on shavings as he's so greedy that he was eating practically his whole bed :eek:

As for hunting - nooooooo, far too much of a wuss and I've not jumped for years due to back injury. Maybe get someone else to take him for me instead :rolleyes:
 
Thanks Damnation. Our hacking is limited to one familiar track I'm afraid until my trailer's been serviced :( We've got some super places we can ride when we're mobile again though so I'm hoping that will give him a bit of zest for life again!

I do vary the school work but I will try to vary it even more to keep up his interest level. I think it's sometimes a bit too easy for me to treat both of my horses the same but really the new boy does need more variety and I need to address that.
 
Hi OP - my horse used to be much like yours, he is now sharp and forward going!

I approached mine in a slightly different way to amymay, as the hacking near my last yard was mostly on the road and I didn't want to get into an argument with the horse, which could result in him bucking and rearing, in a situation with traffic! There was no opportunity for hunting or other parties as I don't have my own transport.

Try using a short stick instead of a schooling whip and make sure when you smack him with it, you mean it. Sit the bucks out, using the RS tor if that makes you feel safer, then send him forwards. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the canter in the arena for now - if the horse respects your leg and moves off it instantly in walk and trot then the canter will come. I was very reluctant to smack mine in the trot/canter transition as, quite frankly, I would have ended up on the floor. Lots of transitions halt/walk/trot were the key to breaking mine out of his laziness and bad habits. When he was obedient in those paces, I took on the canter; because he had more respect for the leg by this stage we still had an argument but it was nothing like as bad as it would have been earlier in the process.

I used hacks as a reward, rather than somewhere to school for the reasons stated above - if he had gone forward nicely and been obedient then we went on a hack where he could stretch and walk on freely. We had some lovely canters out on hacks!

I think consistency is the key here - you need to be consistent in getting after him every time. If you're not up for an argument, do something that isn't an issue (in my case this was hacking, as the horse liked that!).

Personally, I couldn't canter my horse in the same place every time as he would get incredibly wound up and start rearing as he anticipated it - you know your horse and will know what sort of effect this would have.

My horse used to be pretty lazy and dead to the leg, now he is sensitive and responsive to the aids. I could school him to be sharper if I wanted to (and had a death wish..!). Surprisingly, I now have to feed him a lower energy feed as something higher energy tips him over the edge into insanity. You may be surprised :)
 
fadedv - thank you for your reply :) You have given me a lot of hope. My horse absolutely loves hacking out; ears pricked all the time and a spring in his step. I like the idea of doing a short schooling session and then, as a reward, letting him have a stretch and a bit of fun by taking him out for a hack.

I've got a few short sticks because my other horse (well pony) is tiny and schooling whips reach past her bum! I've never tried using a short stick on my gelding though so will give it a go today.

I've been doing a lot of transitions and half halts and he is definitely far more off the leg than when I first got him. I think I am probably obsessing a bit about the canter because it is so much worse than the other paces. I can get a bit hung up on things if I'm not careful :o

I'm ging to book a few lessons as well because I have a brilliant instructor and she really helped me with my mare when I first got her. I think half my problem is that my horses are so different from each other, despite being the same breed. My mare is very responsive and forward going and I feel like I am failing at the moment with my gelding. But I am sure we will get there soon!
 
Great :)

Perseverance is the key - I felt like giving up on my horse loads of times! I thought it was me not being a strong enough rider for a while, so I went for some lessons on a dressage schoolmaster which reminded me that I could ride proper horses - gave me the confidence and the inspiration to carry on with my naughty horse!

Don't be afraid to turn the short stick over in your hand and give him a proper smack. Mine had got used to frightening his previous riders into backing off by bucking, so every time he bucked I'd smack him and send him on again. His saddle had been fitted properly, his back had been checked and his teeth were up to date, before I get pilloried! It was pure nappiness and laziness and too long getting his own way.

Keep the faith, you'll get there in the end!
 
My mare used to be like this - she had just had enough of the school.
Above advice is spot on - esp the short stick, worked well with my girl.
Good luck!

my best advice - make small goals so that you always win!
 
I've got one, it's good peice of kit but I think it's over priced.

I bought it because my new mare went through a cheeky stage while she was settling in, she used to spook, spin round & then canter off bucking, she also started leaping around in the middle of the road a couple of times; as I didn't know her very well it made me a bit nervous as I was worried her bucking & jumping up & down would turn into full on broncs. They didn't & now she trusts & respects me she is a good girl.

I only needed it for a couple of months but I'm pleased that I got one, it made me feel much more secure when she jumped around & gave me the confidence to work through our teething problems, when she was bucking it did make me more secure in the saddle. For a while I was convinced I'd over horsed myself.

It is still attached to the saddle although I don't really need it anymore, I'll keep it on for a while longer - just in case!
 
I used hacks as a reward,
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I'm not sure I can see how this can work affectively - because for most the required outcome is that the horse works off the leg, whatever the situation. But for some horses this is easier to achieve in a more 'natural' environment.

If you take the horse out of the school the minute it starts to work well - what is the achievement or reward.

Stretching and walking freely is also part of what we want our horses to do in the school, as well as out hacking.

I agree that keep sessions short - 15 mins max. But then you leave the school, regardless of the outcome.
 
It can be done and as said above you just need to retrain a little....I posted something similar a few weeks back and am happy to say that we had our first gallop on Tuesday....( I have tried in a field, on a hack following another and still only managed a fast canter) however onTuesday he really went for it, is so much more responsive in the school and I dont have to nag anymore....that was 2 lessons with my trainer holding a lunge whip, first session she only had to hit him with it twice. She asked me to stand in the corner of the school facing the long side at halt she asked me to put my leg on to ask him forward, as usual he ignored it, so she immediately backed it up with a smack on bum from lunge whip, it had the desired effect as he shot off(you must be prepared for that bit..:D) and then we repeated it again in the other corner and as soon as I put my leg on he was off..... I haven't looked back since so far.....so he had trained me into nagging him and chasing him along, now I ride him with hardly any leg and if he doesn't respond straight away I am reitterating with my whip and I have gone from having to smack him around 15 times to less then 3 in one session.....and after he is good I then reward straight away with my voice and a pat on the whither, you must make sure that you dont block the forward movement - easier said then done.....

He is very forward to hack but WAS lazy in the school, we have also booked in to go on a beach ride and to a race track for a bit of fun.... he is also a native and I have been suggested my the feed helplines to put him on speed mix or sports horse mix, although I dont know if I will need this now due to the recent retraining....

You can do it.......although i have had to sit to quite a few bucks to get him to go forward but they are fewer now..... :eek:
 
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amymay said:
I'm not sure I can see how this can work affectively - because for most the required outcome is that the horse works off the leg, whatever the situation. But for some horses this is easier to achieve in a more 'natural' environment.

If you take the horse out of the school the minute it starts to work well - what is the achievement or reward.

Stretching and walking freely is also part of what we want our horses to do in the school, as well as out hacking.

I agree that keep sessions short - 15 mins max. But then you leave the school, regardless of the outcome.
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The 'reward' is that once the horse does what you want him to do, then he gets to do something he likes. I wouldn't leave the school until I had achieved something positive, even if I had to revise my expectations downwards to 'walking one circle in an active walk' to make this work in the context of a short session. He learned quickly that if he did what he was asked, then something nice happened. We didn't always hack, sometimes we'd do some jumping (which he loves). Over time, you can build up from a tiny amount of nice work to a larger amount. Mine will school happily for 30 mins now before he loses concentration.

I'm not saying this is a one size fits all solution - this is what worked for my horse. I couldn't have schooled him out on hacks, as the problem was not there when he was hacking. He was a dream to hack - a horror in the school, wouldn't walk forwards, would buck (and buck and buck!) if you asked him to more than shuffle. He had learned from his previous riders that if he was naughty enough in the arena, then they would give up and he could go back to his stable/field. Leaving the school if he was naughty reinforced this.
 
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