Lazy horse?

[lbx18]

My cob has been in work for almost a year (although not consistent) He is really lazy even just walking in hand, he looks like he has no energy at all and is just so slow. When ridden I barely ever get more than a few steps of trot and still not been cantered. He has had all the usual checks. Want to start working him more regularly and be consistent with it so wondering if anyone can advice me on a working schedule to get his fitness up..? Also how to get him to keep trotting without having to kick him constantly..?

 

[SEL]

What checks have been done? For cobs I would always rule out PSSM type 1 before assuming it is laziness / training issue.

 

[Wheels]

What checks exactly, most 'lazy' horses I've come across have been in pain somewhere.

Of course some are naturally more laid back and maybe your horse has never properly been taught the leg aids but I would get a thorough vet check first

 

[lbx18]

He doesn't have any of they symptoms of pssm...Had his teeth, back, tack and a lameness test. I got him as a colt at 1 year old and he has always been the same. Trying to get trotting in hand. When he was younger I never really asked much of him. Only little trots and lunge in a circle 2 or 3 times each rein so not sure if that could be part of it and now that I am starting to ask for more? Had an instructor out to ride him and she did have him trotting and cantering around. I do struggle to put my leg on and keep a steady rise?

 

[Pinkvboots]

Did you back him yourself?

 

[SEL]

What about hacking out with other horses? If there's a lack of energy following others then I would think there is a problem. If he's fine out then it does sound like the 2 of you aren't really connecting. How does he go with you on board in a lesson?

 

[Gloi]

It might be worth sending him to someone for a couple of weeks intensive schooling to make sure he actually understands the aids properly.
Otherwise, regularly hacking out in a group will help encourage him to go on more and also improve his fitness. If your instructor can get him going then also keep on working with her.

 

[lbx18]

He's not actually that interested even when other horses run around the field he occasionally follows them but usually just happily stands eating. Same hacking with other horses. I could send him away but if it's me or the yard/school surface etc then no point. I spent 2 years with groundwork before riding so he does know what I'm asking and even the instructor said that. Have taken him in a trailer to a few places and although he does get tired after 1 or 2 hours, he will work alot better and even canters quite a bit.

 

[SEL]

^^^ does he get better the more he works? If I understand your last post then you're saying you ride for an hour and he starting to feel more forward by the end of it.

Might have misunderstood but if not the that is one of the signs of PSSM. Very long slow warm ups on a horse which feels like it has no juice in the tank for 30 mins is how my riding life works these days!!!

 

[lbx18]

No he gets slower nearer the end. Not sure if it is the school surface he doesn't like because it's soft and uneven (carpet) and that is why he works better out of it. In a field he will pretty much always canter when I ask him to

 

[ShowJumperL95]

I had a very lazy one like yours but I managed to turn him into a more off the leg horse by only doing this simple thing. It is very hard to start doing this but trust me it pays off. The problem with constantly kicking a lazy horse is that they just go dead to the leg it is just a constantly annoying nagging to them so they just switch off and you end up exhausted.
Have a go with this when riding him, when you ask him to move forward or go a bit quicker give a squeeze, if he doesn't listen to that give him a kick, if he doesn't listen to that give him a tap with a schooling whip(these have to be done very quickly after another if you do not get a reaction from the first one) then once he has gone forward leave him alone then repeat if he starts to slow down without you telling him.
Honestly this does work it worked for my one it did take a good month for this to work but it has paid off massively and make schooling fun lots of transitions will help wake him up.

 

[Bernster]

Yours sounds more on the extreme end to me so I’d def be checking there is nothing health wise that might explain it. If it is a purely ridden issue, I did what sjl95 has posted about. It’s important to get the timing right so this was part of my weekly lessons and flatwork boot camp that I started last year. Made a massive difference and I have a different horse now on the flat. Now working on transferring that activity to our jumping !

 

[lbx18]

I had a very lazy one like yours but I managed to turn him into a more off the leg horse by only doing this simple thing. It is very hard to start doing this but trust me it pays off. The problem with constantly kicking a lazy horse is that they just go dead to the leg it is just a constantly annoying nagging to them so they just switch off and you end up exhausted.
Have a go with this when riding him, when you ask him to move forward or go a bit quicker give a squeeze, if he doesn't listen to that give him a kick, if he doesn't listen to that give him a tap with a schooling whip(these have to be done very quickly after another if you do not get a reaction from the first one) then once he has gone forward leave him alone then repeat if he starts to slow down without you telling him.
Honestly this does work it worked for my one it did take a good month for this to work but it has paid off massively and make schooling fun lots of transitions will help wake him up.

Thank you will definitely start working on that

 

[ester]

If you cannot rise and keep your leg aids clear then I suspect that is not helping the issue and as such sending him away might not be the best option. I would suggest that it would be better to get someone who can work with both of you (and possibly both of you separately too) to assess and improve the situation.

 

[DabDab]

He doesn't have any of they symptoms of pssm...Had his teeth, back, tack and a lameness test. I got him as a colt at 1 year old and he has always been the same. Trying to get trotting in hand. When he was younger I never really asked much of him. Only little trots and lunge in a circle 2 or 3 times each rein so not sure if that could be part of it and now that I am starting to ask for more? Had an instructor out to ride him and she did have him trotting and cantering around. I do struggle to put my leg on and keep a steady rise?

Appearing slow, lethargic and unable to maintain trot is quite a big symptom of pssm...?

Honestly, what you describe is quite a big step away from normal, so either you are riding him spectacularly badly (which I doubt), or there is some deeper rooted issue with him that you haven't found yet.

 

[Fluffypiglet]

The main sign mine had ulcers was him being very slow... just ground to a halt in any gait unless I pushed and pushed. Throughout he was fat, glossy, eating well. Does yours yawn a lot? Or close his eyes a lot? They can be signs of pain even if nothing else is suggesting that there is much wrong, they can be ridiculously good at hiding things from us. Not saying yours has ulcers, just that pain indicators can be very subtle. Hopefully just a schooling issue but thought worth a mention.

 

[lbx18]

I could post a couple of videos of him being ridden lately if people could have a watch and let me know how he looks and even give me advice on my riding.?

 

[redapple]

Always useful to see videos!

My advice would be very similar to SJl95 if everythings been ruled out. I also found one of those ropes (The official ones are called giddy up ropes) actual helped one of mine with very sticky feet. That and variety, ive heard of hunting perking up lots of horses (after the event not just during!) and just generally having a varied routine.

 

[lbx18]

Here is a video - First 2 riding clips are the most recent.Feel free to comment on what I can change with my riding and how you think horse looks.

 

[lbx18]

[video=youtube;2POc2XDWO7g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2POc2XDWO7g&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Mule]

Your riding is nice. I think he looks a bit behind the leg in the school. He looks more forward in the field. He has a nice canter too.

A tap on the hindquarters with a dressage whip tends to activate the hindquarters. That should help. If you lie the whip accross your thigh and flick your wrist it will get his attention. I love the footage on the beach. He's very handsome

 

[DabDab]

Oh ok, well that doesn't actually look that bad. You just need to work on getting him really switched on, so lots of transitions making sure that you are getting a good forward reaction each time. Break it down to just a really simple message, and spend a few weeks just being really consistent in that message to reinforce it. I tend to do touch with legs, tickle with whip if no reaction (so just using the whip to generally irritate them, not with any force). Starting with halt-walk transitions, to keeping forward in walk, to walk-trot and so on.

I would think it is still a strong possibility that he has something like PSSM though.

 

[scats]

He’s lovely, but I agree he’s rather too behind the leg.

I find with these types you have to let them know from the second you sit on board what you are after. The warm-up sets the tone for the rest of the ride so you must insist that he takes you forward, moves off your leg straight away when asked and maintains the pace set until you state otherwise.
I do feel your frustration as Millie can be quite switched off in the school and if given half the chance she’ll put minimum effort in and saunter along at Millie-speed, curling behind the contact and not taking it, or me, forwards.

Schooling whip- if no response from leg aid, back it up straight away with a tap. Don’t be afraid to do a growl or a voice aid until they get the idea. Lots of transitions, within the pace aswell as direct. Halt- trot- halt is a good one for sharpening them up. You must insist on nothing less than forwards. If you have a walk break mid-session, insist that it is a good ground-covering walk. They can still have a stretch and a breather, but they must get it out of their head that a walk break means the session is over, as they can often be notoriously difficult to get back into the right frame of mind (this is still a work in progress for Millie, who is prone to switching off between the warm-up ring and the dressage arena!)
Even at the end of the session when we are cooling off in walk, I never let Millie revert to a default Millie-speed walk. I simply don’t want her to think thats acceptable under saddle, and she doesn’t walk like that out hacking so I know dam well she has a much more active walk in there when she feels like it.

Be insistent, clear and set your expectations and stick to them. Try to avoid nagging, the reward for doing the ‘right’ thing is a quiet rider who leaves them alone. They soon get the idea. Good luck!

 

[SEL]

He's lovely - reminds me of my friend's mare.

There's some really good advice above, but like DabDab says I wouldn't rule out something like PSSM. The coloured cobs tend to tick over for a long time just being a bit lethargic before something (usually spring grass) tips them over the edge. What are you feeding right now? How much grass is he on? A few tweaks might be all you need to get a little more oomph.

 

[redapple]

Good example of why videos are so helpful - he doesn't look too bad at all! There's points (like around 4 mins) that he's backed way off and needs a wake-up call but the trot work at the beginning looks quite nice.

One thing to remember is speed doesn't mean that a horse is moving well/forward. I used to ride a very lazy cob belonging to a friend and was accidentally pushing her out of her rhythm and making her 'run' mistaking this for her working well. The analogy of riding from the leg into the hand helped me. At the beginning his rhythm looks nice but he needs a bit more oomph to carry you forward. I would also say that for a lazy horse you are probably staying in the pace too long (it may be for the video!). You can do transitions within the trot as well as changing pace. I found it helped to do a good forward trot on the long side, shorten at stride at the short end of the school and then lengthen again on the long - kept her thinking.

Canter looks ok too, same as the trot little more from behind and it'll be fab. I definitely think there's hope for a nice forward cob! Definitely worth checking health etc and then go from there.

 

[redapple]

Also just on a second rewatch (love a video)- a good example of a lack of obedience is at 4.20 ish when you ask for the trot. He should have shot forwards with a strong leg aid like that but he effectively ignored you for another couple of seconds. You could do with setting your transitions up a bit more (more contact, little half halt and then go) but when you say go he should go! If i was on and he did the same (which he would! I dont think your riding is a big issue here) then i would have immediatley giving a flick with a schooling whip done 5 or 10 strides of trot, come back to walk and asked again. I'd keep going until he's quick and eager to go into the trot. Another thing i've sometimes found helpful is if the flick gets them into trot but its a rubbish trot I will rhythmically flick the whip on the hind end or bump my legs in time until theres a good forward pace. I dont use the same intensity as the forward aid but I found it better than kicking again after the squeeze, kick, whip cycle if a horse is consitently giving me a rubbish trot.

Edit to ad - he looks a lovely genuine sort!

 

[AmyMay]

He's lovely, and is actually tracking up in trot.

When you work him, never do it in a quarter sheet. He needs to feel your stick when you use it.

The things that really stick out for me are that you ride small, sharp circles - that won't help him think forward. You also allow him to fall out of whatever gait you are in, and then fall in a heap yourself.

Clear transitions, big loops, and hack out.

 

[JFTDWS]

That video is loads better than the OP sounds! He looks very sweet.

I think he could well benefit from a little robust schooling - use your schooling whip to tap him up (sans exercise sheet so he can feel it!) and don't let him make you kick-kick-kick at him. Use your legs once, if he ignores it, tap him up. If he ignores that, you send him forwards with any means necessary. Always make sure you're not blocking his mouth with your hands when you send him forwards. Avoid the tight turns which are making him fall into walk - and never let him flop back into walk (or trot) without being told to come back by you. He just looks a bit ignorant and backwards, which isn't uncommon in cobs. He would also benefit from losing a few (dozen!) kilos - he'd find it easier to work if he was slimmer and fitter.

He reminds me of my old lad who was a similar type - he was very pleasant and responsive to ride if you got on and meant business. If I put a novice on him, he went into steady-mode and looked just like your chap - because he knew he could get away with it! He was an absolute gem of a horse - your chap has the makings of a good sort

I wouldn't rule out PSSM - but I'd start with some decent training, and a bit of a diet. If he's still sluggish at that point, I'd be inclined to dig deeper.

 

[SEL]

BTW - if you ever need a little more response to a schooling whip then try tying a plastic bag to the end of it. The swish can definitely get a more forward movement! The challenge then it to keep it still once you have the forwardness and only swish it again if they start to back off.

I have no idea what happened to my mare when she was originally started (apparently) under saddle, but she she doesn't give a **** about a smack from a whip. An annoying plastic bag though will irritate her enough to get me a decent trot when she's deciding she'd rather be in bed.

 

[redapple]

Sorry to keep posting but I feel like you could have been me 5 years ago with my old mare and with some work we got to the point that a new instructor described her as a powerhouse and beautifully forward (i've never been more proud!).

Amymay makes a really valid point about falling out of the pace - Riding the downward transition forward really helped mine stay on the hindquarters and not fall onto the forehand and therefore the upwards transition was miles better! You can see he kind of plops back down into the walk (or trot) and you are going to struggle to get a nice transition upwards from that. He should still be thinking forwards after a downwards transition. You want to ride into the pace you want, i.e coming from trot to walk, you dont want to give up on the trot and therefore the walk just happens you want to be actively riding for a forward walk. If I can ever get anyone to film me i'll send you a video of what I mean as one of the horses i ride at the moment has been allowed to do exactly this and crumbles out of trot into walk unless you hold him together! I'd say quite a lot of this will be helped by developing a better contact and having him working into that contact.

Another point - you said you can't get a canter out of him in the school? He doesnt look unhappy with the surface (i actually like a lot of his natural paces, he's walking quite fluidly and his trot tracks up and under him well) so is the problem impulsion? I'd be putting some canter work in to get him opening up and going forwards. Mean business, get a neck strap to hold onto if you are worried about bouncing about or catching his mouth (though you look ok in the field), have a lunge lesson - whatever you feel comfortable with but I think it will really help give him a boost and some variety in the school.

Do you have a good instructor? Also all these things arent going to come quickly so don't feel like you have to fix everything in a day. He'll take a while to fitten and strengthen up (especially in learning to hold himself up) and it takes everyone a while to adjust how they ride. From the original post i thought he'd be shuffling along and barely moving, as is you could go and go an intro dressage test with a little work and you will have a fab boy with just a bit of time and training. I'd love to see how you progress!