Lazy or bored?

[NicandLiv]

I am new to schooling and dressage, novice rider novice horse. ( I know what you're thinking, perfect combination )

Anyway, I have just started some more serious work with my mare, we did our first dressage test 4 weeks ago and got 63%, went again friday and got 72%. (These were 'have a go' nights, so not a proper competition but they gave me lots of encouragement so boosted our confidence). I went to my first unaffiliated dressage yesterday and I got 60% (haven't got the feedback sheet yet as it's going tobe posted out to me). Now, when I took her to her first test at 63% we boxed there, she was really excited couldn't get a nice warm up, rushed through transitions was a lot of the feedback from that test, so she wasn't really listening. Second time we went and got 72%, I hacked there, about an hour and a half, waited for 30 minutes as they were running late before going into class. She was really calm, got in to do my test and she didn't rush at all, but she needed a lot of leg to keep her going. I got some really good feedback from that test, saying I have a lovely riding style with a nice quiet seat and soft hands but gave her lots of leg to let her know I was there and keep her going and she worked lovely, we even got a lot of steps with her hind quarters engaged! I felt she was a bit lazy, she was quick off the leg through transitions, but I dunno I can't quite tell but I think I'm just used to her rushing about and trotting really fast! I assumed it was the hack. Yesterday when I took her out, she had been stabled overnight to keep her clean (she lives out all year and always has), and boxed over there. Got there in plenty of time as I knew she'd be excited and need some time to calm down as she'd never been there before but she was exactly how she was on the friday, calm, needed a lot of leg to keep going. I had practiced the whole test too many times as she anticipated every single transition. I had to walk at A from working trot but she decided to do it herself two steps before A, I did feel she was slowing down and tried to ride her to A but I couldn't keep her going.

Now I don't know whether she is being lazy, or whether she is starting to work nicely so slowing down and taking her time to think, or whether she's just plain bored. I know it's hard to have a guess when you can't see her being ridden, but wondered if anybody else's horse is a bit like mine?

 

[kc100]

A few questions from me before I try and comment:

- The 'have a go' nights, were these proper dressage judges (i.e BD listed) or not?
- The judge for the competition where you scored 60%, was this a listed judge or not?
- Before the first have a go night, had your mare been out anywhere before (e.g other competitions, fun rides etc)? Has she travelled much to anything other than these dressage events?
- What is she like schooling at home?
- Do you use spurs and/or a schooling whip either at home or in the competitions?
- What is her breeding? and how old is she?
- What level of dressage are you doing (walk trot, prelim etc)?
- Have you changed her feed since you started doing more dressage with her? What is she fed currently?
- What was her workload like before you started doing dressage (i.e. how many times per week did she used to be ridden)? How many times per week is she ridden currently?
- Do you have any other examples of where you felt she was being lazy other than walking 2 steps before A?

 

[NicandLiv]

1.) I do not believe she is, so I do understand that the scores will be generous.
2.) Yes she was a BD Judge, Heather Ashely
3.) She has been to one fun ride, we box out every now and again to go out on the new forest for a good canter and some fun.
4.) Schooling at home, we have to hack 20 minutes to the school so when we get there she listens near enough straight away as soon as we get in, she only really needs a bit of leg every now and again in trot or walk to remind her to keep the same pace if I feel she is slowing down a bit.
5.) Never use spurs, or a schooling whip. I have used one once, she becomes really stressy and panicky, throws in some bucks and charges around the arena and when I did apply any bit of pressure with my leg after using the whip she'd shoot straight forward and rush through a lot of stuff.
6.) She is supposedly 12, her background is she came from Ireland (without a passport) to a puppy farm in pulborough where they were going to breed from her, (they got her at 8 years old) but for some reason or another they didn't breed her and sold her to a parelli lady a year later. Lady did some parelli with her, she described her as just backed, she knew leg meant go forward and that was it, so she knew walk and trot, trot to walk. Lady lost nerve with her after mare bolted with her when trying to hack her by herself and she was generally very stressy and loved to put in a few cow kicks, didn't ride her for two years and listed her on horses4homes because she couldn't sell her either. I viewed her and almost fell in love, something about her, she napped and bucked with me, when we had the vetting she squashed and reared up at the vet, then tried to bite her. I was sold then, so I got her Had her 2 years in November and she's a completely different horse, we have a great bond!
7.) Intro, her canter is interesting to say the least.
8.) She is currently fed on Winergy and half a scoop of sugar beet
9.) Worked at least 5 times a week. In the winter she was worked 4 times a week, just hacking, but could be out for hours, in the spring I upped it to one more night a week and started to school her a bit more, rest hacking out. Some times we did 22 mile hacks, but usually our hacks are around 2 to 3 hours long. Now she is hacked out on average twice a week, schooled 3 times, sometimes though she is schooled twice and I box her out for a fun hack somewhere.
10.) It's hard to explain, normally just one squeeze of the leg for trot and she goes, and generally she doesn't slow down into a walk until you ask her to and if she begins, one more squeeze of the leg and she gets back into a nice trot. This time however I felt if I took my leg off for any moment she'd just break into a walk and I wouldn't get her going again, I felt like I had to be there every second to keep pushing her on, we have been working on straightness and she's been going really well, whereas in the test it was like I was doing waves down the centre line. I had to give her the rein on a 20m circle in trot and pick up reins again before A that was hard I really had to use a lot of leg to keep her going. On a positive note though at the end we got an amazing square halt

 

[9tails]

She sounds a bit overfaced and acting backwards. Use these as training exercises and don't worry about your scores. An inexperienced judge may not be able to tell that a horse isn't going forwards whereas a listed judge will.

 

[stormclouds]

She sounds very lucky to have ended up with you

One thing to consider - that I always have to with my boy - is how horses react to excitement/being in a new place. I took my newish boy XC for the first time a few weeks ago, and while I was expecting fireworks, I got a horse that was sluggish, behind the leg and not willing to move.

My RI explained that horses will deal with excitement/nerves in different ways - one way is to explode and be forward and how we expect an excited horse to act, but others will get really quiet/introverted and display it that way. So maybe she's excited, but shows it in this way?

If so, I'd just say get her out to loads more things so it's not exciting anymore.

Regarding her anticipating you, I was always taught to only ever ride a dressage test once (twice at a push) the whole way through. So work on the individual movements, i.e. transitions, changes of reins, circles, but don't put it together!

My boy is very lazy so I have to just mix things up - lots of schooling out hacking, throwing the odd jump in during a flatwork session etc. Maybe look at working on getting her more in front of your leg - so LOADS of transitions (I do about 5-6 down each long side with mine during our warm up, just to get him thinking)

Sorry not much to offer, just to consider whether she is v excited, but shows it by coiling in on herself. Good luck with her

 

[kc100]

Here's another thought - is she in season at the moment?

Ok so based on your comments; I wouldnt worry about the scores too much as you are just having fun at the moment and trying something new out which is great. 63% for a first time out is actually quite good, first time out should never be used to compare your subsequent outings against because the tension and general excitement of the occasion (both you and the horse!) means the test wont reflect what you can do once you are a bit better practiced. And then the 72% from someone who is not a listed judge shouldnt really be used either, that wont have been representative of a qualified judge's feedback so take that one with a pinch of salt. Your 60% is probably the most accurate out of the scores, so it will be interesting to see what the comments were on your sheet once you receive it.

From the sounds of things she is doing A LOT of work, the hacks are incredibly long and I wouldnt be surprised if you are tiring her out too much to give you the energy you need in a dressage competition. Have you always done this kind of work (lots of hacking and schooling) since you got her or has her workload increased in the last few months in particular? I'd be looking to get a feed expert out to visit you and tweak her feeding, if you've always fed her the same but increased her workload she wont have enough energy from her feed to cope with the extra work. So get some advice from someone qualified who will be able to work with you to get a better balance between her workload and energy levels. And if you want to take the dressage more seriously, cut down the length of your hacks. I'd only ever hack out for about 30 mins-1 hour max, them occasionally (once a week max) do a slightly longer hack. Schooling sessions should be about 30-45 mins depending on the horse, and if you are hacking for 20 mins to the school then I'd limit your session at 30 mins.

She is only at walk/trot and hasnt been in serious work for very long from the sounds of things so you need to take it a bit easier on her, she is just starting out (late in life as well) so needs more of a baby-ish approach. I'd also investigate ulcers just as a precaution (get her scoped), horses with slightly strange backgrounds and history of spooking/bucking etc would normally point to a bit of pain/discomfort and ulcers are very common. They often cause horses to be lazy as well, so worth double checking.

Appreciate with the whip the reaction was a bit strong when you used it once, however the reaction was actually correct - it meant you got a better reaction to the leg after you'd used it, which is the aim of using a whip. If she is scared of the whip spurs might be worth a try, that way if you feel her losing the reaction to your leg she cant ignore it when you put it back on again. It might take a few weeks/months for her to calm down when you apply the leg with spurs on, and definitely dont wear them out hacking, but eventually she will get used to it and its there as a back-up to your leg if they dont react as they should. All professional riders wear them so there is a good reason why they are used!

I'd definitely avoid practicing your test in the way you have been, anticipation sounds like the reason why she slowed at A, she knew she was supposed to so decided to do what she felt was correct and ignore you. It was only 2 steps before A so she was pretty much bang on, she clearly felt she knew better in this instance! When you are schooling at home and know there are transitions at specific markers as part of your test, then practice them at all markers so you keep her on her toes. You can do a full run through on the horse maybe once or twice, but after that they will learn the test and anticipate - so try doing it on foot instead, and watching it repeatedly on youtube. I like to break it up into segments, which means I get to repeat the movement for my memory purposes but also means that the horse cant anticipate what's coming next because we just spend one session working on the first 3 movements for example, then next session do something from the end of the test etc. Then break up your session entirely by doing something unrelated, like popping a small fence or some trotting poles etc. having a distraction that is not related to the test will keep her mentally stimulated and will mean she isnt anticipating movements so much.

I do think its a tiredness issue from the sounds of things, your 72% day you'd worn her out with a 1.5 hour hack, then on your 60% day yesterday you'd got there really early anticipating too much energy but in fact had the opposite problem. You'd also been out with her on Friday from the sounds of things when you got your 72%, then took her out again Sunday.....its just a bit much for a horse that has had a quiet life up until recently. Try taking her out to compete once a fortnight (once a month even!), reduce the length of the hacks, review her feed and work on your warm-up strategy - then I think you might see a difference.

Have you got a trainer who you are having lessons with? Do they have any opinions on why they think this is happening? If I were you I'd be schooling her for 30 mins (plus your 20 min hack) 3 times per week, 2 short-ish hacks per week and replacing one of these hacks/schooling sessions with a competition if you choose to compete that week. Only compete once a month and have 2-3 lessons per month with a dressage trainer to start to get you improving your areas of weakness. When you go to competitions I'd box her there, then do a short 15-20 min warm-up and see if that makes a difference.

The warm up is likely to be key; what you choose to do in that warm-up can make or break the test. I'm a big believer in transitions, I run dressage competitions and see so many people just trotting/cantering around and around the warm up not actually achieving anything other than losing more and more impulsion. I like to make little targets e.g in a floodlit school I'm going to do a transition at every lamp-post, or you can use fence posts in the absence of lights. Protracted transitions are brilliant as well, so for example in trot go sitting and slow to almost a walk, then push on for a bigger trot. Repeating that a lot really engages them and gets them thinking forward when you ask for it. If you dont get a reaction that is where you do need the back-up of a schooling whip or spurs, I know you might not want it but there has to be an impact for the horse if they ignore the leg. Otherwise she will just learn she can ignore your leg and nothing happens apart from her getting her own way. The ideal should be that you are doing nothing with your legs (have you had yourself videoed to check you are not nagging too much with your legs?) until you are asking for something to happen, you ask once with a squeeze, get a reaction and take the leg off. You also need to give with the hands as well when you take the leg off, the whole give and release principle requires your entire body to 'give' when you get the desired response, so make sure you are not still holding her neck in or asking for more with your seat despite taking the leg off. When you release you are not throwing the reins away, it is just a subtle softening as a reward to doing what was asked, so eventually the horse learns that doing things properly when asked means they get a reward, so they seek that reward more often (eventually all the time).

Thinking about it, definitely have yourself videoed if you havent already - check for nagging with the legs (too much nagging = horse that is dead to the leg), and check you are not blocking with your hands. You might notice that you are putting the leg on but have her too tight in the neck or you are too heavy in the hands, or even using your hands for balance on the reins....and therefore all the energy you are asking for is being blocked by your hands and cant come out of the front as it should do. You have to think of riding from the leg to the hand, the leg is asking for the back end to produce the power, that power comes from behind and pushes out of the front - if there is something blocking at the front (i.e. the rider) then the energy is lost and you feel like she is going nowhere.

9 times out of 10 most issues when riding your horse are coming from the rider, so always be super conscious of what you are doing at the moment when you are having a problem. This is why a good trainer (and filming yourself when riding) is so important, having someone on the ground watching what you are doing will mean you can solve any little issues with your riding which in turn will help the horse move better.

Hope this helps!