LAZY PONY

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hollylouise

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Hello All,

I have been asked to train up a newforest pony (14.1hh) who is INCREDIBLY lazy and overweight. I am not permitted to use a whip and must use natural techniques and use a monty robert dually headcollar.

She is extremely lazy, and refuses to move, puts her head down when I trot (which I pull up constantly, but it does not seem to correct her) and has a habit of just stopping dead and stands like a statue. Oh and bucks if I actually get her into canter. The bucking I can fix, as I just squeeze her on through it no probs.

I know a quite a bit about natural horsemanship, but in normal circumstances, I would use ground work methods, join up and what not, and then when schooling, if she threw her head up, I would tap her on the shoulder with the whip and she would make a good association, and then if she refused to move I would tap her on her bottom.

Currently, I have a friend coming up to the yard and she uses a stick with plastic bag on the top (as advised is permit-able by the owner), and after squeezing her and giving her a kick, and she doesn't move, the friend shakes the bag. But even this, doesn't really do much.

Please can someone help! I am unsure where to go. I trot her in the school, and she barely picks up her feet and has her ears flat back. I put poles down to encourage her to start thinking and she seems to plough right through them every time she goes over them.

I do lots of turning and circling and take her on hacks to try and increase her enthusiasm, but nothing seems to work. She is just very lazy.

I do hope someone can help me get this pony's interest!!

Thanks,

Holly
 
If the pony seriously won't go and is grinding to a halt despite pressure, and you are sure it's not the handler being ineffective, then I'd check the pony's diet.

- What balancer or vit/mins are they being fed, and what weight per day?
- Does this equate to a full recommended daily ration?
- Have they ever had a forage analysis done to check the dietary amount of selenium (should be 0.1mg/kg dry matter in the forage; anything less is deficient)
- have they ever had a blood test done (including CK, the main muscle enzyme). If ck is elevated it indicates some form of muscle damage, like a small scale tying up.

Over 70% of the UK is deficient in selenium, according to a survey done in about 2003, so unless they know that the forage is unusually high in selenium I would make sure they are getting the full daily ration of a balancer such as Blue Chip Original (or Lite), which contains a good amount of organic selenium.

I'm going through something like this with my gang at the moment. Using an inorganic selenium balancer over 11 months caused no improvement, but 4 to5 months after starting organic selenium there was a marked improvement in CK levels in all 5 ponies.

Worth a go?

Sarah
 
She doesn't sound an awful lot of fun :eek:

I have known a few ponies who for want of a better word refuse to play ball. But have only seen them improve with some pretty tough boundaries and a stick has been part of that.

What is she like with others? Have you tried a wip *** type rope with her?
 
Hey guys. Thanks so much for the replies. I know its not her diet as our other pony lives in the exact same conditions, and does not have the problem.

I know what you mean ester, this is what I would traditonally do, but I can't use any form of device that has contact.

So I'm a bit stuck :( x
 
I fear this is a case of shoot the owner.

I presume back / tack are ok? It sounds seriously shut down.
 
Re diet, just because something works for one horse you can't necessarily assume it will work for another. Like us, they don't all have exactly the same needs. Also, you say this horse is also compromised - fat and possibly uncomfortable - so she may need something different to get out of trouble than would suit a 'normal' horse.

All that said, proper exercise is going to be part of any fitness/recovery program. If the owners (are they the ones who let her get overweight?) won't let you insist on her moving, I can't see how you can get that done.

I don't know where the idea that 'nh' (however you want to define it) is all about being lovely to horses all the time. Get a few videos of Monty, Buck et al - they can be pretty tough on the horses if they need to be to get their message across.

Perhaps have a look at clicker training? Although again, the reward for doing something has to be greater than not doing it . . it sounds like this pony prioritises stop/slow. Tricky to convince her to feel otherwise if you have no way of changing her mind about that.

I'm not advocating pony bashing, btw. I'm just curious about the owner's training philosophy. Presumably if they want you, the trainer, to follow a certain system they must have a model that works??
 
Assuming her tack fits and that other than being overweight, she's physically healthy, what's she like out hacking?

I'd be inclined to start her off hacking in a group to get her going forwards, enjoying being ridden and hopefully shifting some weight/building muscle before taking her in the school where everything's much harder due to having less space to play with and more turns to do.

It'll also help the two of you develop trust in each other and learn to communicate which can then be transferred to the school.

Good luck! :)
 
Some people go too far in both directions when training horses I would guess she is totally spoilt and has no boundaries at all in the name of being horse savvy.
Starting from the ground lunge on two reins monty roberts style
get her really moving on body language (voice) erhem
get on board and then using a whipwhop encourage her forward a Whipwhop is a monty roberts tool too it acts a bit like the cowboys flapping the reins from side to side over the pony's neck. pulling down on the reins will stop once she is going freely forward. never kick and boot as this makes them switch off even more
It sounds like a real challenge to me especially with he restrictions from the owner is she there all the time if not "what the eye dont see the heart dont grieve over"
 
Would the owner be happy for you to long rein in a dually? Could try that in the school, and out hacking once she's got it, to see if that helps build up her enthusiasm and maybe fitten her up, so she finds it easier when someone is on her back? I had something similar with a 15hh mare I reschooled as a summer project for the owner - she'd done a lot of driving and just didn't seem to quite understand what was being asked with someone on her back - despite being broken to ride. With the long lining I used a lot of voice aids rather than anything else and could then transfer this to saddle with the aids and she eventually got it!
 
Just because I believe in credit where credit is due, a 'wipwop' is hardly a 'Monty' invention, it's a pretty standard piece of Australian stockman kit and something similar exists in all the 'cowboy cultures'.

Useful piece of equipment which has stood the test of time
 
OP,
She sounds exactly like my NF... a 6 yr old forest bred gelding. Thinks backwards all the time, cant be bothered to trot on lunge but will if I push hard. Will trot when ridden but shuffles along, can canter but would rather trot etc.. oh yes & pulls his head down, not to mention the bucks i can feel waiting to escape!
I have decide that for the time being I will hack him out only I am hoping that by increasing his activity he will loose weight get fitter & 'go faster'. Using a whip has very little effect, whether a schooling whip or a jumping whip he just ignores it. The only thing that does make him go are spurs which I dont want to use. I think some ponies are just like that.
 
If she is overweight and unfit and it is hot any type of schooling is going to be hard work for her and it unlikely she is going to be keen. How long do you spend in the school and how often?

I have a new forest and he is very laid back apart from when he is jumping when he is turbo pony, he prefers hacking out and jumping to schooling. If you can get the pony fit and responsive out hacking first and then gradually introduce small amount of time in the school. Also I find my pony quite likes dressage as it means he does lots of different movements and that seems to keep him interested.

My pony when recovering from an injury was unfit and he did mainly time on the walker and then when he went in the school started off with 10 minutes mainly in walk and then gradually built up.
 
Hello All,

I very much appreciate everyone's help and input, its been invaluable. I have a stick with plastic bags attached to it which makes lots of noise to get her going a bit. And everytime she stops I turn her in circles which are harder to do than going straight. But she is certainly a madam.

I feel like I make progress with her, and then she goes 10 steps back the following day, its very frustrating.

I do pole work and jump her in most sessions (I am talking about a very small cross), to try and vary it, as to be honest, I believe it is as much boredom as it is laziness.

So I do lots of circling, upward and downward transitions, pop a jump and then back to circling, but I literally am walking like John Wayne afterwards, as it is a hard work out keeping the momentum, because I feel when she's about to stop dead, and I am trying to pick it up as she does it and push her on before she gets to the point of stopping dead.

The other day, was a "bad" day, none of the above worked and she wasn't budging, so I took her into a circular pen, took her tack off, and got on her, with a plastic bag and made her canter circles, which she did (well trot canter circles). So she couldn't get away with doing nothing and she was still working. The reason I untacked her, was because I needed to shake this stick/plastic bag device the owner made me to make A LOT of noise, and I didn't want to risk the reins pulling on her while I am shaking this thing around behind me.

I will let you know in a few weeks how I get on..
 
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