Lead biting

[FlaxenPony05]

How do you deal with lead biters? It's a problem I've had with my Staff X for a fair while, and while he doesn't do it incessantly, when he does do it, he's very difficult to stop. It's not just mouthing - it's strong, growly tugging. Today we had a good heelwork session and then on the way home, he just switched, and therefore lost all of the engagement & control that we had been working on. I'm trying to figure out what the potential triggers could be...it does definitely seem like some kind of frustration (towards the lead? Not being able to come off the lead?), and he never does it on the way out, it's always on either the second half of the walk or on the way home. I'm inclined to think that the only way of dealing with this is by using some kind of deterrent (rattle can, spray etc), but as we've been working hard on making walks as positive as possible due to negative past experiences, I'm really like to try with the clicker first. Clicking and treating calm behaviour (i.e. when he's not doing the biting) would seem like the most logical answer, but it's difficult with him to find a 'gap' when he isn't doing it as once he gets into bitey mode, it's near impossible to get him out of it.

 

[Cahill]

rather than spray/rattle I would turn it into a fun game in which you would swap the lead for a treat or other toy.

I would start off at home with a tuggy toy or lead and teach the command `drop` or `dead` and trade for a treat or a toy.once he gets the hang of it still do it to reinforce it.
it is important to remember that when he lets you have it do not take it away and hide it,where is the incentive for him to give it back. offer it again and engage in play. lots of small sessions throughout the day .
I have just bought a fleece tuggy lead for my SBT and we have a good game,anything where we interact is fun.

 

[{97702}]

Amy greyhound does this when I am putting the leads on the Greyhound Gang, it drives me absolutely insane!!! Nice idea Cahill, I will stop bopping her over the head and offer her a sweetie instead

 

[SadKen]

I'm not sure it's frustration with the lead - I'd imagine he just enjoys it!

I have recently discovered this as a training tool for my younger GSD, he absolutely LOVES it. So we do obedience, he gets 20 seconds where we play tug, then I instruct him to drop, and he goes back to obedience again.

Sometimes I let him win. Only very occasionally!

As Cahill said, a game is ideal - as with everything, you set the rules.

I daresay you could clip two leads on him - when he tugs one, drop it and use the other one, it's no fun to tug if there's nobody on the other end. If he gets to do this occasionally on your terms, he'll soon learn.

 

[california dreaming]

Dogs tend not to like tugging on a chain lead.

 

[satinbaze]

Spread Vicks vaporub on the lead as digs dong like the eucalyptus smell. Works like cribbox

 

[{97702}]

Spread Vicks vaporub on the lead as digs dong like the eucalyptus smell. Works like cribbox

**runs to get some Vicks Vaporub**

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I'm not sure it's frustration with the lead - I'd imagine he just enjoys it!

I have recently discovered this as a training tool for my younger GSD, he absolutely LOVES it. So we do obedience, he gets 20 seconds where we play tug, then I instruct him to drop, and he goes back to obedience again.

Sometimes I let him win. Only very occasionally!

As Cahill said, a game is ideal - as with everything, you set the rules.

I daresay you could clip two leads on him - when he tugs one, drop it and use the other one, it's no fun to tug if there's nobody on the other end. If he gets to do this occasionally on your terms, he'll soon learn.

This is how I stopped the collie and now the new pup from doing it. Teach the leave command, once they left the lead they got a treat.

 

[Cahill]

Dogs tend not to like tugging on a chain lead.

chain lead? horrible things IMO. and the vicks is just masking the problem instead of solving it.

 

[satinbaze]

the vicks is just masking the problem instead of solving it.[/QUOTE]

However using Vicks gives you a chance to reward when the dog is not chewing the lead.

 

[Dobiegirl]

chain lead? horrible things IMO. and the vicks is just masking the problem instead of solving it.

I agree and on a Staffy too is going to play into the sterotypes for the breed.

 

[FlaxenPony05]

Thanks for the insight everyone Making it into a game is a really interesting idea, it's just getting him to stop that would be the problem. I think I'm going to really try and work on the leave command with him in the house, and then slowly take it out to the garden and then outside. He's pretty much there with it at home, but I do need to be more consistent with him. Then again he doesn't do any of the lead tugging at home, so I can't really practise it in that context. It's getting him *out* of the mode that he goes into when he does it that's the real problem- it's like something flips in his brain and nothing (cheese included!) will persuade him. I may try and get some really smelly liver and see whether that'll do the trick - I think it's basically a case of finding something that 'tops' whatever the feeling is that he's getting from the lead biting. Thanks again

 

[dollyanna]

My deafie is a lead tugger and has been since the day he came home. Initially I tried to stop it but then realised that actually it was the best tool for me to use when out and about because he prefers his lead over any other toy when it is on, so I taught him to leave it and also to take it on command (his "command" is a flick of the lead in front of him as I can't use a vocal command, but this also gives him an extra incentive to take it and play because it is "alive").
I taught it by simply stopping everything else and being a tree until he got bored and stopped for himself, then gave him his thumbs up "good" and flicked the lead to start again. The quicker he dropped it the quicker he got it back and I actively played with him. It did initially take some time for him to get bored, and you have to be strong and solid so as not to encourage the tugging - but tugging against a solid object is boring eventually apparently!! Sometimes I used a fence/post/lamppost and just wrapped the lead over it to anchor it more easily so I could keep it still, but only if I was struggling that day because that interferes with the speed of the reward. I did also work on it at home by actively encouraging him to tug it when attached to his collar where he was much more likely to drop it and I could reward him more often.
I know many would say he hasn't stopped tugging his lead, which he hasn't, but it is now completely under my control and I can ask him to stop and start instantly, and it is still incredibly useful to me to have a huge reward with us at all times in case we come upon something that worries him.

 

[california dreaming]

Ok if a chain lead is so offensive then clip two soft leather leads to collar. As soon as dog takes hold of one drop it and use the other one and so on. That way dog will have nothing to pull on and will be getting nothing out of it. Also it will be safe as you always have hold of one lead. However, you must make sure you drop the lead the dog tries to pull on as soon as he puts it in his mouth. Lot of room for human error but if your timing is good dog will soon get board of trying to play tug with you. Hope that helps and does not upset anyone

 

[FlaxenPony05]

Thanks again. After our walk today I do still think that it is frustration ie him not getting what he wants. It happened 3 times today, once when he reached the end of the flexi-lead, again when he was being asked to come away from other, off-lead dogs, and again when I stopped to chat. So I'm not sure whether turning it into a game would be the best option. The third time, I dropped the lead, he messed around with it for a while, stopped, and got a click and treat....but then he started up again - I'm wondering if he's taken this is as 'if I grab the lead, and THEN stop, I get a treat'. Same goes for litter in the street - he picks it up, drops it, and then gets clicked and treated. So basically learning that tugging on lead/picking up litter gets him rewards? I also found today that when told 'NO' in a very deep, angry voice, he dropped it immediately - but that doesn't stop him from doing it again, nor does it give him any motivation to drop it in the first place. So just a bit lost with regards to what to do next.

Ok if a chain lead is so offensive then clip two soft leather leads to collar. As soon as dog takes hold of one drop it and use the other one and so on. That way dog will have nothing to pull on and will be getting nothing out of it. Also it will be safe as you always have hold of one lead. However, you must make sure you drop the lead the dog tries to pull on as soon as he puts it in his mouth. Lot of room for human error but if your timing is good dog will soon get board of trying to play tug with you. Hope that helps and does not upset anyone

Thanks, will try this again, the one time I took him out with two leads he didn't do it!

 

[npage123]

If he's under control and walking without pulling, could you maybe rather use a harness on your walks? He'll be much less inclined to go for the lead if it's tied to the top of the harness than to his collar. Obviously you could still use the collar when attending training classes/practising at home.

 

[FlaxenPony05]

If he's under control and walking without pulling, could you maybe rather use a harness on your walks? He'll be much less inclined to go for the lead if it's tied to the top of the harness than to his collar. Obviously you could still use the collar when attending training classes/practising at home.

He's usually on the harness when he does it...doesn't seem to make a difference unfortunately!

 

[npage123]

Oh right, sorry

 

[AmyMay]

Do you let him off the lead?

 

[FlaxenPony05]

Do you let him off the lead?

He's let off once a day (on his morning walk) for about 30 minutes. He is completely untrustworthy around foxes which we're working on, but until that's sorted, he's kept on the lead for anything other than his morning run. In an ideal world he'd be off for the majority of every walk but I just can't trust him, especially as we're in an busy urban area so could easily get hit by something if he decides to chase.

 

[twiggy2]

sounds like redirection and honestly the non confrontational way to stop it with most dogs is to use a chain lead, most dogs do not like the feeling of the chain in their mouth and the habit breaks BUT you must have something else for the dog to redirect on to such as a tea towel, ball on a rope or similar, teach the drop command at home by having 2 of the same redirection toys, play with one then hold it still and bring the other to life by wiggling it about on the floor, when the dog releases the first one add in a verbal command-'leave' or 'drop'-when the dog is reliably giving up the first one then start introducing a treat on release and apply the leave before the dog lets go but after you stop the toy moving.

how much exercise and training does he get most days?