leading a naughty pony.....advice needed!

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sugarpuff

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My friend has had her 14 h stocky cob for about 4 months now and most of the time he is very well behaved at home and at the few local shows he has been to. BUT.....on occasion he has a horrible habit, when being led, that he runs off.

There is no warning that he's going to run, one minute he is stood still then will just jump into gallop and gallop off to the nearest bit of grass and stop. It is sheer naughtyness, but he is a chunky monkey and very strong so she has no hope of holding onto him. (Very petite lucky thing!) She always wears gloves and a hat, but it's a habit he developed at his previous home and one that she would like to over come for everyones safety and enjoyment.

It's not just her, he's done it with several other people, in several different places, different weather conditions, etc. He just knows he can do it and gets away as he's so strong. We have also tried leading him in from the field in his bit and bridle, but he is still the same. His manners the rest of the time are pretty good and she is a confident and proficient lady, but his previous owner let him get away with it.

I have heard that a chifney bit is a strong bit used when leading a horse and that it gives you control if they do decide to take off. Obviously she wouldn't haul him around in it, and it would only come into play if he did take off, but has anyone got any advice about this, or any other methods or techniques that she could try. I've never actually used one, but as I do handle him from time to time for her, I'd like to work with her to sort this issue out so if she does get one I'd like to know a bit more about them so it's used correctly.

Any info appreciated!!
 
Before a Chifney, usually used to prevent rearing, you might want to try a 'Be Nice' type head collar, which tighten on the poll and nose when the horse resists. They work for some, tho have to say mine will let his nose become corrugated and still try to tow me!!
 
Sorry but this is a situation that could be potentially dangerous ..... so needs sorting PDQ.

This pony has obviously sussed that he can do just as he pleases, when he pleases, with whom he pleases, and this has got to stop - NOW!

What I'd do is to take him into an enclosed space - for everyone's safety. Then I'd get a pressure Halti (think rope halter basically) with a long training rope, and basically work with him in hand, teaching him to walk forwards WHEN YOU SAY and not otherwise, and to back up to a raised hand & verbal command. Also get him moving away from the pressure of your hand where the rider's leg would be, etc., etc., keep him changing directions. Then you can introduce poles, steps, etc. Keep him focussed and never let him be able to predict what you're gonna ask for.

The halti will work on "rewarding" pressure and release. So if he's rude and cheeky and trys to tank off, then he will learn that that can be unpleasant in the halti as it will dig in and be uncomfortable, conversely, when he is pliant and polite, you will reward him by rubbing his neck, and letting him see what you want. You will know when he's learning as he'll start to lick and cham his lips, and/or yawn, or even better, lower his head and start following you.

In the early stages, if you're not sure what you're doing, you need an expert to help you with the timing as it has to be just right - its no good being uncertain or dithering about it or the horse will pick right up on it. Personally I'd highly recommend an Intelligent Horsemanship practitioner, and/or someone attuned to the Michael Peace way of working. His website also has some good ideas which might help.

The problem with a chifney is that most horses soon learn that yes, they have to behave whilst wearing it, but as soon as it comes off they'll take the p!ss big time.

This "respecting" process which I've outlined above, even starts in the stable - by him being asked to move over, go forwards, and backwards, so you can start there, coz this is where it has to be happening rather than out in the open spaces where he's obviously learnt that its quite OK to please himself.
 
TBH I'm not sure a chifney would help that much. It's great when you have a lively horse trying to rear/bounce around but I don't think it would give you much advantage over a bridle if he's just launching into canter like that. You also risk damaging his mouth as they're fairly harsh. If you do decide to try it you would be safer looping the leadrope through rather than clipping it on so if he does get away he won't hurt himself if he stands on the rope.

Thankfully it's one issue I haven't actually encountered so can't offer you any proper advice. Personally, I think I'd be trying a control headcollar and a lungeline so when he does go you have more time to react before you reach the end of the rope! I'd also try and keep him 'busy' when leading, especially if there is a certain spot where it is more frequent - stopping/backing up/turning a circle/trotting for a few strides etc all with the occasional treat to keep his focus on you. I suspect it will be a difficult thing to completely eliminate - I hope you manage to get it sorted. :)
 
She has tried a head collar which tightens round his nose, not sure what make it was, but he took off in that too! Horror! Guess that wasn't strong enough to have an impact on him.
Yes, agree, it could be v dangerous, hence asking for some info, before we pin the monkey down, but we want to do it right and not create any more problems.

She has an arena so will definately do some work in hand in there, getting him to respect space, etc.

Thanks guys! Knew you would have some ideas. I think his previous owner didn't help with this issue.
 
I would go for the Dually and a copy of Perfect Manners..

Chifney's are for use only in extremis as far as I'm concerned as they are so fierce...

Be Nice.. I would hesitate to use as they can create a rearer.. because of the poll pressure they exert..

Could see horrible sequence of events.. bargy / tanking pony is put in Be Nice.. becomes a bargy / tanky pony who rears as well... is put in chifney.. it's an escalator of violence..

Dually used well can create an easy and light horse to lead.
 
I have very strong anti-chifney feelings, especially for a tanker. Knew a horse who had to be PTS after taking off in a chifney - stood on rope and broke his jaw :(

Only thing I'd add to above is ALWAYS use a very long lead rein or lunge line. Never wrap around hand (I'm sure your daughter knows this already :)) and remember you'll have most power towards the end of the line - the letting him run a few strides then a good strong pull and whatever command you choose on the line strategy is a good one in my humble opinion! Lots of praise/treat when he stands still then.

This has been used on two very large (16.3hh/17hh), very strong, VERY bolshy horses on our yard who took just legged it as soon as they were turned out (without waiting for rope/headcollar to be removed) and it wasn't long before it worked. :)
 
Yes, I did wonder if a chifney would potentially encourage him to rear. (He has never reared or bucked) so wont go down that route, not keen on creating more problems.

Will look in a dually, I've never actually seen one or seen how they work, thank god for google!
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Sorry but this is a situation that could be potentially dangerous ..... so needs sorting PDQ.

This pony has obviously sussed that he can do just as he pleases, when he pleases, with whom he pleases, and this has got to stop - NOW!

What I'd do is to take him into an enclosed space - for everyone's safety. Then I'd get a pressure Halti (think rope halter basically) with a long training rope, and basically work with him in hand, teaching him to walk forwards WHEN YOU SAY and not otherwise, and to back up to a raised hand & verbal command. Also get him moving away from the pressure of your hand where the rider's leg would be, etc., etc., keep him changing directions. Then you can introduce poles, steps, etc. Keep him focussed and never let him be able to predict what you're gonna ask for.

The halti will work on "rewarding" pressure and release. So if he's rude and cheeky and trys to tank off, then he will learn that that can be unpleasant in the halti as it will dig in and be uncomfortable, conversely, when he is pliant and polite, you will reward him by rubbing his neck, and letting him see what you want. You will know when he's learning as he'll start to lick and cham his lips, and/or yawn, or even better, lower his head and start following you.

In the early stages, if you're not sure what you're doing, you need an expert to help you with the timing as it has to be just right - its no good being uncertain or dithering about it or the horse will pick right up on it. Personally I'd highly recommend an Intelligent Horsemanship practitioner, and/or someone attuned to the Michael Peace way of working. His website also has some good ideas which might help.

The problem with a chifney is that most horses soon learn that yes, they have to behave whilst wearing it, but as soon as it comes off they'll take the p!ss big time.

This "respecting" process which I've outlined above, even starts in the stable - by him being asked to move over, go forwards, and backwards, so you can start there, coz this is where it has to be happening rather than out in the open spaces where he's obviously learnt that its quite OK to please himself.
Click to expand...

^^^^^
This
 
I would also highly recommend the dually for this situation! I love the rope and pressure halters and find them brilliant for general training but I think you need a bit more directional control with this pony. The way the training ring works on the dually means you will be able to get his head around even if he sets his neck first, something you won't be able to do in a training halter or even a bridle with bit. A chifney is totally unsuitable for this job. I would also agree that you should use at least a 12ft line when leading this pony in any situation.
 
I much prefer the Be Nice halters than the dually ones but each to their own.

Personally I would just get a strong dog choke chain, fit a clip in one end, clip that onto the far side of his halter on the noseband bring it across his nose through the noseband on the near side and clip the rope to that. Keep a long rope on him and when her decides to go give him a couple of really HARD jerks. He has to realise that if he decides to clear off it will be very uncomfortable for him.
 
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