leaning on the bit, help!

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hannah87

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when the horse is leaning on the bit - not hugely but enough, wat is the best way to get them up and off?ive tried letting him stretch and walk, major half halts, pushing on very strongly etc but cant seem to stop him doing it. he tends to do it midway thru a schooling session and get progressively worse til the end. could it be that he is tired and using me for support?altho i do think its a new way of evasion for him. any ideas greatly appreciated, he is ridden in a straightbar happy mouth loose ring altho am looking for a new bit as this seems to cause sores, so any ideas welcome... thanks
 
does he like french links? maybe try that or a waterford. i assume its very easy to lean on a straight bar bit. as for happy mouth -scrap it.
 
no he doesnt go well in a french link have tried one he was v unsettled in his mouth. i also ride him in an eggbutt dring snaffle but he also leans on that but not so much- but is stronger in that if im making sense.. would like to know the nest way to ride him thru the leaning tho..
 
I presume you have tried lots of transistions, say at every marker so he is having to listen to you? It could be a fitness thing in that case perhaps try finishing on a good note, & at the same time extend each lesson. What is he like out on a hack?
 
yeah i try to do lots of transitions altho once he had started to lean do find it v difficult to bring him back down from trot , altho in canter he will go back to trot wen asked just from my seat. he is definately worse in trot for leaning. out hacking i dont ride him on a contact just long and low.
 
Lots of half halts, transitions and leg!

How long are you schooling sessions? It might be better to keep them a bit shorter so he doesn't get tired and work on building up his stamina.

Be careful that you're not holding onto the bit as well - give away the inside rein occasionally, and soften your hands so he's got nothing to lean on.

I bring my shire x back to halt as soon as I feel her start to lean, then put my leg on (in halt), and make her relax the bit before moving off again. I find lateral work helps her, so we do lots of turn about the haunches in walk, leg yields and 10 m circles to help her soften before even thinking about trot work.
 
hes schooled for about half an hour in a session so not a long time really and he is reasonably fit. i try to keep soft hands but its incredibly difficult wen hes hanging on so much so often i just push him into a free walk let him have a good stretch and then bring him back up slowly.. which works for about a minute of light soft and then its like he goes sod this far too much hard work il let u carry me lol
 
My horse used to do this when I bought him, and around the same time yours does. I would stick to the loose ring, but have you tried a sweet iron mouthpiece? These are really cheap so may be worth a try, the sweet iron oxidises in the mouth resulting in better acceptance.

Also when he leans try not to keep fighting against him by pulling, this will give him more support to lean on. Really drive him with your legs and get his back end into gear with a schooling whip, each time he leans give him a little tap behind. Each time he softens into the contact give a little with your hand. Also lots of leg yeilding on a circle, and also try alternating bends, so over bend to the inside for say 5 strides, then the outside, each time he responds to your aids for the bend give with your rein.

When a horse leans in is usually a case of engageing the back end rather than lifting the front end, lots of lateral work, circles and bending will most certainly help.
 
If you let him have a good stretch every time he leans, then he's going to learn that by leaning he gets a reward.
So rather than doing that, i would bring him to a halt, keep the contact, and make him relax by using your legs until he softens. Then he can walk on whilst he's soft. As soon as he leans, back to halt and ask again.

Maybe try a single-jointed loose-ring snaffle, or a lozenge snaffle if he's not keen on french links. The straightbar will be making it a lot easier for him to bear down on your hands.
 
Not really the same circumstances but my boy was leaning on the bit in canter when in company. I have tried a loose ring waterford and can't believe the difference - 100% better. He is not bothered by it at all - unlike other bits such as a french link that I have tried.
However, as I said, he only does it in company so will only use it for parties and stay with a normal snaffle for schooling.
 
i was considering trying a loose ring flexi with a peanut joint, anyone had any experience of these?thanks for all the input so far..
 
I have a loose ring snaffle with a copper peanut in the middle. It really suits my horse, who like I said above used to lean a lot. I started to use this after the sweet iron bit and have continued to use it since, although I do alternate it with a french link.

I have also just ordered on of those Neue Schule bits on trial, it hasnt arrived yet though.

Go to http://www.shop4bits.com you can order any of their bits on trial for 30days for about £5.
 
We have similar problems with out mare, but I was not happy when it was suggested my 15yo daughter try draw reins & a stronger bit. The mare has a large tongue & therefore finds it uncomfortable anyway. She is ridden in a Pelham for jumping & appreciates this more, neither sticking her tongue out or evading the bit/leaning. You cant use this for dressage so like you we have to try various options including improving the flat work. She is a long mare so engaging is that little bit harder for her. You have to look at the whole picture, as once again conformation can play a part. As already stated they cant lean if there is nothing to lean on, though it may help you to change your bit.
 
i use either a 2 ring dutch gag with a peanut or a full cheek snaffle with a peanut. the mare loves them and has learnt to accept them really well. mine are both metal with a plastic coating -not happy mouth, its harder metal.
 
ditch the happy mouth. make sure his teeth are 100%. then, ideally using a single-link bit (long explanation available if you like!), teach him to hold himself up, not to rely on you, by softening every time he leans. if you keep dropping him, then reestablishing a softer contact that you're happy with, again and again, he'll get the message.
 
i thort the more joints a bit had, the harder it was for them to lean?which is why i was considering the peanut one, but feel free to tell me im wrong and why!! so when you say drop him - i literally drop the reins , without allowing a stretch?and then pick him back up all the time pushing on from behind etc?
 
Please can you explain why the single-jointed bit is ideal? I've found it's the best for both my girls, and my RI prefers them, but it seems to go against popular opinion...
 
okay, the single-jointed bit lecture.
this is all according to my dressage trainer, an amazing German guy (fully qualified Bereiter or whatever's higher than that, i get them all muddled) who is more French Classical school than Germanic, very horse-centric and takes Patience to an Art Form. he trained with Neuendorf (we're not worthy, we're not worthy etc) among others, and has trained to GP level, trained a German eventer from 50th after dressage to being an Olympic team horse, etc. he also taught me FEEL, by dint of an inexhaustible supply of patience, for which i am forever grateful and in his debt.
right.
in his experience, working with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of horses over the decades, he has only ever known one horse which did not go in the single-jointed bit. (the "there's always one..." scenario.)
if you use a snaffle correctly, you only move one hand at a time. one is quiescent, passive, elastic, still, (the inside hand) while the other (the outside hand) is the one used to send messages, gentle morse code if you like, down the rein to the horse. this mirrors your legs - you for the most part keep the outside leg there, still, and use the inside leg actively to influence the horse more. this way you really are working from (active) inside hand to (active) outside leg, on both reins. hope that makes sense. active isn't really the right word, but it's the one you're using more than the other. this ensures straightness, eventually, and is very consistent and reassuring for the horse.
with a single-joint bit, this works - you can keep one side of the bit still and move the other side for the message. you can actually feel the horse's tongue, too. an extra joint in the middle muddles the message, gives a wibbly feel, imprecise.
his ideal set-up, which i now ride all my horses in (for all 3 phases if possible, have done with one at Adv level) is a full-cheek or fulmer snaffle with a reasonably narrow mouthpiece (absolutely even on both sides, so usually has to be an expensive one to ensure this, believe it or not) with fulmer keepers to keep the bit absolutely still and stop it from rotating (also allows a little poll pressure to give the horse the idea gently), with a correctly-fitted (4 fingers' width between top of nostril and bottom of noseband) drop noseband. correctly fitted, it needn't be tight to be effective, in fact it is horrible if it's tight, horse is more likely to try to flex jaw against it.
this combo works. it really does. also, because i absolutely KNOW it works, i just have to calmly and consistently keep repeating what i'm doing, because i know it will work, instead of having that "aaargh, let's try another flippin bit then, there must be a key to this horse's mouth" scenario.
this combo is, according to him, what they use at the Spanish Riding School of Vienna on every horse before they progress to double bridles.
*lecture ends. if you've read this far, award yourself a smartie and a gold star*

bramble, when i say "drop him", i mean totally soften the contact with both reins for an instant. repeatedly, until he learns that if he leans, it's not there. depending on how bright/determined he is, it might take a while!
 
Thats interesting, as these days most people prefer bits with 2 joints rather than one. But most people who own their horses just for pleasure do not ride that precisely, including myself. Also most novice riders will not use each rein independantly either. So would this still work? I work my horse in a double jointed loose ring snaffle and he goes much better than in a single jointed. My instructor who competes at pre st george level also prefers double jointed bits.

I am not disagreeing with you, I just wondered if this would still be the best choice for someone who is not at an advanced level in their riding?
 
umm, well, when he started teaching me i was very far from advanced level (prob still am, compared to a lot of people) and he was adamant that it was the combination to use, no question. i made the mistake of turning up to a lesson in a bit with a rugby-ball link in the middle, a while after he'd started teaching me, before i was totally convinced, and got an exasperated telling-off for it.
i trust him and his total system absolutely so i'm happy to stick with it, because in the long term i know it makes for very happy trusting horses and totally precise communication, but obviously you should use whatever you and your horse are happiest with!
i do think there are a lot of trends with horses, and double-jointed bits seem to be very trendy now.
 
Very interesting, thanks for the detailed explanation. I don't think I'm precise enough with my hands to feel the separate actions yet, but its given me something else to think about when I school tonight!
 
i tell you, it's revolutionary.
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very interesting and makes a whole lot of sense, definately a good approach, altho mayb not the key to every horse and rider combination, its certainaly made me rethink bits, thankyou
 
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