Lease won't pay

TheChestnutThing

TheChestnutThing

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I gave notice to my lease as it wasn't working out and I received a reply from her mother to the effect that she would not be riding out the month's notice as she was in mourning for the loss off my horse (her exact words) and they had an inseparable bond (my horse could not stand her and she showed him no affection) but would pay me for the month as per the contract agreement and also for the lessons and physio (which my horse had to have due to the lease's bad care and riding).
This was a week ago and month end has come and gone and I have seen no money. All emails/phone calls/sms's have gone blatantly ignored. My husband tried to call also to no avail.

What rights do I have? It is not pocket change they owe me, it is a substantial amount of money. If I have no right to the lease money, they do have to pay me for the lessons and physio. Or am I wrong?
 
Like all these issues, it depends on whether you had a good contract in place....

You can get legal advice from the BHS if a gold member, if not try the CAB.
 
Had they agreed to the lessons and physio beforehand? If not then I wouldn't be expecting to get paid for them.
 
So you told the person who is loaning your horse that you are terminating the loan, giving them 1 months notice. They advised you that they no longer wish to carry on riding the horse, or benefit from the lessons, or pay for your horses physio for the remaining month.

Is that right?

Where is the horse currently? Who was paying the livery?



I think, from a legal stand point you may have a option to pursue her for the 1 months final loan payment, although it will for sure be more hassle than it is worth. However I can't see how you could possibly persue her for payments for lessons she wont be taking, or paying for physio for your horse.

Or was this all last month and you had already paid for their lessons?
 
It was a half lease. They had a contract which a lawyer friend had looked over and given a nod of approval to.
The lessons were obviously agreed to, or else I would not have given them. I had it in the contract that should my horse need physio etc due to their negligence, I would inform them and then get it done and they would be responsible for payment. All this was done in writing and verbally before the physio came and after.
 
As annoying as it is and I would be livid, going down the legal route will probably cost you a lot more than what she owes you.

If I was you I'd just try to forget about the money because you're never going to get it and just be glad that someone that spiteful and irresponsible is no longer riding your horse, especially since she's cause him/her damage.

Unfair and annoying but realistic.

ETS: Even with a contract it will cost you a lot in legal fees. Just make sure people you know don't take her on as a loaner for these reasons. Word soon gets round in the horse world.
 
Where is the horse currently? Who was paying the livery?



I think, from a legal stand point you may have a option to pursue her for the 1 months final loan payment, although it will for sure be more hassle than it is worth. However I can't see how you could possibly persue her for payments for lessons she wont be taking, or paying for physio for your horse.

Or was this all last month and you had already paid for their lessons?[/QUOTE]

The horse is stabled at my yard and I pay livery. The lease pays me in advance for livery and in arrears for lessons and other costs incurred.
So the lessons and physio had already happened.
 
If they provide bad care and riding then surely you'd prefer to have him back before the months notice is up anyway? I know I would.
Money wise I'd keep pestering and if not small claims.
 
Elsiecat said:
If they provide bad care and riding then surely you'd prefer to have him back before the months notice is up anyway? I know I would.
Money wise I'd keep pestering and if not small claims.
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It was a half lease, therefor he stayed at my yard. After this I will NEVER lease out a horse again. I am VERY happy they don't want to ride, but isn't a contract a contract? The father is a well known vet, how would he like it if I didn't pay for a service?
Especially the twice weekly lessons I have given his daughter for which he owes me and the physio. The lease amount I can live with but the services rendered....

I have sent daily sms's, 4 emails and 4 phone calls....all have gone ignored.
I know where they live, I still have her stirrups and leathers and she had the key to my tack box, do I go to their house?
 
Could you try speaking to the father? Perhaps he will be smart enough to work out his local reputation could take a little dent from this one? I'd think he'd be more likely to sort the money out?
 
If you gave her lessons and you claim she damaged your horse, why did you not terminate earlier?

I'd cut my losses and move on if I was you. Ideally, I'd like the physio money but seeing as the lesson was from you, I'd forgo that.
 
quirky said:
If you gave her lessons and you claim she damaged your horse, why did you not terminate earlier?

I'd cut my losses and move on if I was you. Ideally, I'd like the physio money but seeing as the lesson was from you, I'd forgo that.
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When I was not giving her lessons I had reports from others at the yard. I terminated as soon as I could catch this with my own eyes which happened to be the day before a show and at a show. The lease was terminated the same day. I informed them she could ride out her month as long as she was supervised by a parent or an instructor (not me) on every ride.

How my horse needed physio: she was jumping him and not listening to the advice (sit back, shorten reins, ride straight), horse ran out of a 60cm cross and she didn't have the balance to stay on. She fell, then sat there and watched him. She did not make an attempt to grab him or hold onto the reins and for the first time ever horse bolted. She sat and watched him do this and made no attempt to catch him. He almost ended up on a main road. He needed physio on his bum from the hard gallop. After this she was made to ride in the arena with the gate and not allowed to jump unless in the arena with the gate and in a lesson.
 
Sometimes when I've fallen off, it's all happened so quickly that I've needed a few seconds to get my brain in gear after the fall - maybe this was the case here? I'm sure she didn't maliciously intend for him to bolt.
 
I'd be talking to the father. I wouldn't be happy by it, but from what you are saying about her riding, why was she being allowed to ride unsupervised anyway? Most kids won't make a grab for the pony when they fall off I'm afraid.
 
You're not in the south are you TCT? I had a loaner just like this a few years ago! Rode my horse for 3/4 weeks, we realised there was a massive problem, caused by her riding! I gave her help, wouldn't take it. Had a top pro out, wouldn't take their instruction. Had one lesson with the YO, who knew my horse couldn't do flying changes, but did them anyway. Then loaner decided my horse needed to do them every time she rode him, even though he did them incorrectly and messed him up totally!

In the end she gave 2 weeks notice (not one months notice as in contract) to stop riding him as he was becoming unrideable due to her riding! We were at the point of giving notice too!
We hammered out the details and she (well the father)paid the months livery they were liable for, and we split the physio costs in 1/2. After a bit of pushing they did give us a cheque!
 
Faracat said:
Sometimes when I've fallen off, it's all happened so quickly that I've needed a few seconds to get my brain in gear after the fall - maybe this was the case here? I'm sure she didn't maliciously intend for him to bolt.
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Yes this. Also I would never hang onto a horse anymore after having a shoulder dislocate.
 
Although I always try and hang on when I fall off as I hate walking home, its not always the best course of action, you can be dragged, kicked and as someone else has done dislocate your shoulder. You are often winded and slightly woozy.
Although I would be annoyed she hadn't followed my instructions, if she fell off and the horse bolted I am not surprised she didn't try to catch him, I bet she was gobsmacked.
 
sorry but if the horse dumped her at a 60cm and galloped off that's not her fault. Horses should not need physio for a loose gallop...
OR if she was not capable to ride at 60cm then maybe you shouldn't have leased a precious horse to her?
And you can instruct all you want but it is building skills so she may have been unable to follow them.
Is the father an equine vet?
Sounds a bit like you may be over controlling and so it might be best not to lease agian and just write this one off-the physio sounds like it was your choice for a minor incident so not really on to charge someone else.
 
The horse needed physio because of an accident .horses and people have accidents it happens .
You choose to half lease your horse presumably you knew how she rode .
You can't not blame anyone for being a bit stunned when they fall off.
You allowed your horse to be leased to a novice .
It's a bit rich to call it negligence it was a novices accident .
Why was a novice jumping 60 cms was in a place where the horse could get to a road is another matter .
How do you know how this girl felt about your horse she might well be heartbroken
 
As Faracat, I would suggest small claims. Without getting into the ins and outs of whether it is right to terminate the contract etc, you have a letter from them agreeing that they will pay for these final costs. They've agreed to make a payment which they haven't carried out. I think the fee for small claims is around £80, which you don't pay if they agree in your favour. I would send them a registered letter stating money is to be paid by x date and if not received you will pursue with action through small claims court. Generally I think 21 days is a reasonable amount of time for them to pay
 
I can't believe people would bother with small claims over something so trivial. It didn't work out, probably a bit of blame and hard feeling for both parties. Put it down to experience, learn from it, move on. Life's far too short too stress over something that really isn't such a big deal.
 
lastchancer said:
I can't believe people would bother with small claims over something so trivial. It didn't work out, probably a bit of blame and hard feeling for both parties. Put it down to experience, learn from it, move on. Life's far too short too stress over something that really isn't such a big deal.
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Depends how much money we're talking about though. OP says it is a substantial amount so if it is an amount that is going to be missed then I would bother
 
SusieT said:
sorry but if the horse dumped her at a 60cm and galloped off that's not her fault. Horses should not need physio for a loose gallop...
OR if she was not capable to ride at 60cm then maybe you shouldn't have leased a precious horse to her?
And you can instruct all you want but it is building skills so she may have been unable to follow them.
Is the father an equine vet?
Sounds a bit like you may be over controlling and so it might be best not to lease agian and just write this one off-the physio sounds like it was your choice for a minor incident so not really on to charge someone else.
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Unfortunately accidents happen. He needed physio as he was damn sore after galloping along a hard road which he managed to get onto after galloping through the stable yard and down a dirt road out the stable gate.
She clearly was unable to follow instructions hence why she is no longer riding my horse.
She informed me she was capable as did her parents of jumping 90cm. My horse is a schoolmaster graded 1.20m showjumper. He was leased to give him a break from the pressures of the higher grades.
I am not over controlling. I just have my horse's wellbeing as paramount importance.
However, that is not the issue at hand.

The issue is the lack of payment.
 
From the sounds of it though a CHILD has been allowed to run up a big bill whilst riding the YO's unsuitable horse? As a yard owner and an instructor the OP should have been professional enough to have prevented this from happening in the first place. Did the kids parents even know she/they were owing money? She was kicked off the share the day before a show? Sorry but I think we're getting a very one sided version of this story. Also, it should have been jumping in an enclosed field or arena if the jockey is a novice child.
 
Goldenstar said:
The horse needed physio because of an accident .horses and people have accidents it happens .
You choose to half lease your horse presumably you knew how she rode .
You can't not blame anyone for being a bit stunned when they fall off.
You allowed your horse to be leased to a novice .
It's a bit rich to call it negligence it was a novices accident .
Why was a novice jumping 60 cms was in a place where the horse could get to a road is another matter .
How do you know how this girl felt about your horse she might well be heartbroken
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Unfortunately not everyone can drop everything they are doing and run after a loose horse. The yard was not busy at the time and someone else ended up catching him almost on a main road as the girl decided not to even try and walk never mind run after him. In fact shw told the person who caught him that she didn't go after him as she didn't know what direction he had gone in. There was only one direction to go in.

You cannot mourn over a horse whom you had not one once of a bond with in the first place. To an extent where the owner gets the horse ready for a show because you cannot be bothered to get out of bed in time.
 
lastchancer said:
From the sounds of it though a CHILD has been allowed to run up a big bill whilst riding the YO's unsuitable horse? As a yard owner and an instructor the OP should have been professional enough to have prevented this from happening in the first place. Did the kids parents even know she/they were owing money? She was kicked off the share the day before a show? Sorry but I think we're getting a very one sided version of this story. Also, it should have been jumping in an enclosed field or arena if the jockey is a novice child.
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The parents of the 16 year old child signed the lease contract.
She was not kicked off the lease the day before a show. In fact she rode in the show and was given notice that evening.
The horse was perfectly suitable had the parents and the child not lied to to me about her experience and abilities. The parents were informed every step of the way in writing and via a phone call and I only communicated with them and not the child as the child is underage and the parents signed liability.
The child was jumping in an enclosed arena but had failed to secure the chain across the gateway.

Again, her abilities etc are not the issue. The issue is that I am owed money. Do I persue it or leave it and warn other horse owners that have her try out their horses.
 
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I hope that the horse is ok.

I have no idea what you would do about the money, other than speaking to the father and if no response trying a lawyer.

It does sound that if you lease/share/loan a horse out in future you need to do far more checking out that the rider will suit the horse. As an instructor with a precious horse up for lease, I can't believe that you took their word that they could jump as well as they said. Didn't you do a trial session where you could check them out?

I would personally cut my losses and move on, perhaps thinking that the horse is not as much as a schoolmaster as you think and looking for someone with more experience and perhaps maturity next time.
 
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