Lease won't pay

TheChestnutThing said:
Unfortunately not everyone can drop everything they are doing and run after a loose horse.
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Excuse me ?? Actually most normal people do exactly that. A loose horse heading for a main road at speed, tends to have people dropping what they're doing immediately.

I am struggling to understand your post, OP. You had a young girl as a sharer. You charged her for some of the livery, extra costs and the lessons you insisted she had, in order to ride your horse. Then when she fell off, you charged her for the horse to have physio.

Was the horse injured from the canter down the road ?

I don't understand, why you, a qualified instructor (?) couldn't assess the girls competence before sharing your horse with her.

You allowed a minor who wasn't experienced enough to ride your horse and she had an accident. Be glad her father hasn't sought legal advice.
 
Honey08 said:
I hope that the horse is ok.

I have no idea what you would do about the money, other than speaking to the father and if no response trying a lawyer.

It does sound that if you lease/share/loan a horse out in future you need to do far more checking out that the rider will suit the horse. As an instructor with a precious horse up for lease, I can't believe that you took their word that they could jump as well as they said. Didn't you do a trial session where you could check them out?

I would personally cut my losses and move on, perhaps thinking that the horse is not as much as a schoolmaster as you think and looking for someone with more experience and perhaps maturity next time.
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Thank you. My boy is ok now.
Unfortunately even though she tried him out you cannot always get a perfect match. Hell in the try out she got on him and cantered bareback! She jumped him over 60cm jumps and whilst she wasn't great I didn't forsee issues that a few lessons would not help out with. I also had a clause in the lease that he was not to be jumped over 80cm as it was.
The problem with a schoolmaster or any horse for that matter, is they will only do so much to help a rider and if they don't trust their rider then they generally will give up if they are not given the respect to trust.

I have sent one last email to the father and mothers' emails as well as the fathers work email.
 
I disagree with the schoolmaster giving up if it doesn't trust the rider. In my opinion it is not a schoolmaster. Our old schoolmaster would forgive anything, and if the rider fell off would stop. I thought another horse I had was a schoolmaster until I put a novice on her, then I saw that she needed more input from the rider than I had thought..

I don't think you can criticise them for lying to you about their ability if you, as an instructor, didn't catch that they weren't as good as they said they were..

It does sound a bit as though this arrangement has been a mess on all sides. Sorry.
 
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Do you not know just about every one lies about their child's ability either by not really knowing how good they actually are or by not taking the rose tinted glasses off.
Your horse may be a schoolmaster to you but press the wrong buttons, wrong weight aids and with a novice rider signals soon get scrambled. A schoolmaster has to understand the most rubbish aids join the dots and come out with something approaching what was asked. I think you and the loaners parents expected too much, I would forget the money and chalk it up to experience.
 
Qualified instructor loaning out a horse competing at 120cm ran out at 60cm.
Qualified instructor incapable of assessing someones suitability to ride the horse competently.
Claiming that someone falling off is negligent and liable to pay for physio for a horse that has done fast work on road. The most this is likely to warrant would be cold hosing legs not checking the back.

Anyone else hearing the trip trap of little hooves on the bridge ?
 
TheChestnutThing said:
1) The horse was perfectly suitable had the parents and the child not lied to to me about her experience and abilities.

2) Again, her abilities etc are not the issue. The issue is that I am owed money.

3) Do I persue it or leave it and warn other horse owners that have her try out their horses.
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1) Most novice folk tend to overestimate their abilities IME (if I had a pound for every time etc...) and parents tend to overexaggerate their offsprings abilities either because they have been told by said offspring that they can canter/gallop/jump large buildings with a single bound etc or simply because they love their child and think they are the best at everything.

But IMO if you were the one giving lessons to this rider and you could see she was not capable of riding to the standard she said she could and that you expected, you should have terminated the lease earlier unfortunately.

I am another who does not think the girl was negligent as such (unless you have solid proof she was being spitefull and letting the horse take off down the road on purpose of course...) and I don't think claiming for the physio is really the way to go.

2) How much ball park wise are we talking that she owes you?


3) That is just spiteful IMO, my last sharer turned out to not be as good a rider as I thought or as she said and at the end I had cause for concern that she did not feed my horse hay which he needed due to lack of grass on one of her days (a way more serious indescresion than the riding!) but I didn't go to the next person she shared for and air my dirty laundry!

I didn't know the new share owner so apart from the fact that they would make up their own minds over her abilities I didn't want to come across as the b*tchy shrew who goes running round telling tall tales about folk.

I'm not saying you are a b*tchy shrew who tells tall tales but that would be how it would come across. Not a smart idea IMO.
 
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TheChestnutThing said:
Unfortunately not everyone can drop everything they are doing and run after a loose horse. The yard was not busy at the time and someone else ended up catching him almost on a main road as the girl decided not to even try and walk never mind run after him. In fact shw told the person who caught him that she didn't go after him as she didn't know what direction he had gone in. There was only one direction to go in.

You cannot mourn over a horse whom you had not one once of a bond with in the first place. To an extent where the owner gets the horse ready for a show because you cannot be bothered to get out of bed in time.
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I have no idea what your talking about .
It's a pretty bad sort of yard if there's nothing that stops a horse galloping off it when a CHILD falls off .
People and and especially children fall off its part of riding
Horses then get loose being angry because a CHILD did not hold on the horse is ridiculous and frankly not very nice .
Of course she should have put the chain across but it's a CHILD that's the sort of thing children do .
On the physio costs if the contract said that in result of the riders negligence the horse needed physio I think your on a hiding to no where because a child is involved .
What did the vet say it's not legal for a physio to treat a horse without veterinary permission so it will be difficult to sue anyone for the costs unless this was done .
I should think the child is upset having 'lost ' the horse in her mind because she fell off, and her parents are angry with you because of this.
 
You may get the months notice period but you'll not get the Physio or lessons she did not take. Courts see what is reasonable. (I sit on the bench btw).It is not reasonable to pay for a lesson you don't have - unless there is a cancellation period stated in a contract (ie cancel within 48 hours and you lose your money etc - but it has to be explicit not implicit.) as for the Physio - u said your contract was 'if there was neglect'. This is very hard to prove especially as this was a share - falling off a horse can hardly be seen as neglect - so you are on a loser there.

Sometimes in life and business you have to learn from your mistakes and to go to court for less than a grand is usually just a huge waste of time. Some principles are worth fighting for - some are not.

Blitz
 
OP, you haven't come across particularly well in your following posts.

Teaching, you aren't out of pocket as such, as it was your time, not that you paid a visiting instructor and then trying to recoup from the child.

What's the physio? £40 - £60.
If you're that grateful to be rid, stand the cost yourself, it's not that much in the grand scheme of horses.

I hope the girl finds a nice sharer and that she hasn't been put off.
 
dogatemysalad said:
You allowed a minor who wasn't experienced enough to ride your horse and she had an accident. Be glad her father hasn't sought legal advice.
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This.
Plus, as it was a lease you were presumably taking money for the hire of the horse as well as livery costs etc?
Be VERY sure that you have the correct insurances in place before taking this further.

But tbh, sounds like there have been mistakes on all sides and perhaps you should just let it go.
 
To be honest I can't understand why anyone would enter into a legal contract granting certain permissions to their horse without knowing very well how they ride - especially an instructor!

Why a child was riding a horse in a situation where the horse could get onto a road is quite frankly terrifying.

I understand that horses are expensive and in some cases having a sharer makes life easier financially and work wise - but I do find a lot of people sign up unsuitable young riders to share which I can only assume is on financial grounds.

I have always been thrilled with the offer of a sensible helping hand when I've got a few in - to help with the jobs and to ride out - never in a million years would I charge them for effectively making my day easier - but hey, that's just me.
 
quirky said:
I hope the girl finds a nice sharer and that she hasn't been put off.
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Ditto.. You said about warning others of her - if she happens to be in North Wales then please ask her to contact me as I am looking for a part loaner. The girls done nothing wrong. If I were her parents I'd be telling you where to stick your loan period and any hopes for money.

Like Faracat also said, the more I've read the more I think you should let it go.
 
TheChestnutThing said:
The horse was perfectly suitable had the parents and the child not lied to to me about her experience and abilities.
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I know you say this isn't the issue and the fact you're owed money is - I get that. However, what I don't get is that you didn't realise the girl's parents had lied about her ability when you first gave her a lesson, let alone if you gave her a few lessons.

You have stated before that she jumped bareback the first time she rode him, however I would say that if you are convinced they lied about her ability, then surely this would have shown during the lessons you gave her over the period she had him on loan and therefore terminated the contract early?
 
Cheshire Chestnut said:
I know you say this isn't the issue and the fact you're owed money is - I get that. However, what I don't get is that you didn't realise the girl's parents had lied about her ability when you first gave her a lesson, let alone if you gave her a few lessons.

You have stated before that she jumped bareback the first time she rode him, however I would say that if you are convinced they lied about her ability, then surely this would have shown during the lessons you gave her over the period she had him on loan and therefore terminated the contract early?
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This.
 
As an instructor you should have been able to have seen the ability of the rider & realised that she possibly hadn't the ability you were lead to believe. I would suggest that you would have soon noticed this but it's only now, when money isn't being paid, that you've decided to raise the matter.
OP you are opening a can of worms here, best put the lid on it & walk away.
 
Confused dot com, you have given her notice 1 month, so why should she pay if she does not have use of the horse for the month, whether she chooses to ride it or not. Prebooked and paid for lessons are a loss to you, maybe you could take them. The physio is also to your cost, at the end of the day he is your horse and you should have been checking she was using the correct saddle etc.
 
I cannot make head not tail out of this, and agree that the bridge may have been crossed by tiny hooves - but at least it's been an entertaining read this time ! :D
 
Surely when she tried your horse , being an instructor, you would have been able to tell immediately if the young girl could manage/ride your horse? I know I can assess some ones ability within a few minutes of seeing them ride.
You obviously decided she was suitable and now, because one one mistake, you have taken the horse off of her? If any thing, you were were in the wrong to assess her ability incorrectly
 
Sounds to me like a young girl was over horsed without enough support. I'd chalk it to experience. I can't see any court taking a different stance to all the people on here-almost everyone feels you should just cut your losses and move on.

If you are an instructor you also need to consider your reputation as it could go downhill very quickly...
 
dogatemysalad said:
Excuse me ?? Actually most normal people do exactly that. A loose horse heading for a main road at speed, tends to have people dropping what they're doing immediately.

I am struggling to understand your post, OP. You had a young girl as a sharer. You charged her for some of the livery, extra costs and the lessons you insisted she had, in order to ride your horse. Then when she fell off, you charged her for the horse to have physio.

Was the horse injured from the canter down the road ?

I don't understand, why you, a qualified instructor (?) couldn't assess the girls competence before sharing your horse with her.

You allowed a minor who wasn't experienced enough to ride your horse and she had an accident. Be glad her father hasn't sought legal advice.
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This! Firstly, loads of people lie about their ability which I find amazing as I always underplay mine as I wouldn't want to get killed by falling off a nutter! OP you are an instructor and you should have know better. Secondly why the hell didn't you get your money back before giving notice - hardly rocket science that loaner might kick up for payment after being kicked off! As for getting up a running after a bolting horse - a. she is a CHILD, b. she had just fallen off and was probably a bit stunned, c. she is a CHILD d. why, the horse is a lot faster than her and e. she is a CHILD.

My suggestion, forget about the money. You say you feel you and your horse have had a luck escape. I assume you might have voiced your 'concerns' about your poor horse to some parents that are probably a bit shocked about their child having a luck escape from a nasty fall and bolting horse. If I was those parents and that was my kid I might tell you where to go if you ask me for more money!
 
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