Leasing horses, how does it work?

[ycbm]

We've got quite a few members from the US where leasing seems to be quite ommon. In the UK it seems leasing is limited to megabucks competition horses.

I'd be really interested to know more about how leasing in the US, or anywhere else, works.

How much does it cost?
Who pays what bills, especially vet bills?
What are the normal terms for returning the horse, or for the owner taking it back?

I'm fascinated why leasing ordinary riding horses just isn't a thing in the UK when it is elsewhere.
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[stangs]

I’ve always thought it’s the equivalent of full loaning, but with a different term for it. (No experience with horses in the US though).

 

[ycbm]

I’ve always thought it’s the equivalent of full loaning, but with a different term for it. (No experience with horses in the US though).

ETA, (in the UK), leasing is where they pay to even have the horse, before any livery costs, it's not loaning.

 

[teapot]

This is an interesting read https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/lifestyle/the-benefits-of-leasing-a-horse-11652

 

[Caol Ila]

What?

It's just different words for sharing/loaning in all its weird and wonderful incarnations. You can have a part-lease, which is like a share. You exchange money/chores/alcohol/whatever for access to horse part-time, a day or three or four per week. You can have a full lease, which is you paying more money for access to the horse whenever you want, but you're not responsible for livery (or board in American), and vets/shoes, et. al. are down to whatever messy arrangement you establish with the owner. You can have a free lease (LOL), where you pay all the horse's expenses, but you're not paying the owner anything. The downside for you is that they could take the horse out from under you. The upside for you is that if it becomes unridable, you can walk away and it's not your circus.

Of course, all of this language is fluid. Leasing on the other side of the pond can be as fraught and bizarre as loaning/sharing can be here. But it can also be ideal for owner/horse/leasor.

I'm pretty sure that high-end show barns have their own interpretations of these things, so maybe that's what you're seeing, but most horse people are not at those rarified places.

Edit: Yeah, read the Practical Horseman article. I guess there are more opprtunities in the US for lease/loan/shares because a lot of trainers (also, no one I knew) have strings of horses who they lease out. Maybe that's more common in some places than others? My flatmate, an American vet student, asked me if there was anyone at my barn with horses to lease. Uh, no. She seemed a bit baffled that there weren't people/trainers with large numbers of horses looking for leasors. This wasn't the state of affairs in my US horsey circles, either, so maybe it's tied into the morass of geography, discipline, and economics

 

[KEK]

Stangs is right, here in Australia anyway. I have 2 here on "free lease" that tends to be off property, we pay for everything bar the cost to buy the horse. You can do on property leases, that tend to be around $40-80/week, horse stays where it loves and you go and ride it. You just pay that set fee, owner covers anything else.

 

[Trinket12]

I lease Sugar one day a week, (I'm in Canada) and her leaser pays me $150 a month. I did it more for help with schooling as my leaser is a more experienced rider than me and she has helped with some of the gaps in Sugar's schooling (it's also nice to compare notes and realise that it's not just me that can have challenges!). It's very common for leasers here, and not just privately owned horses but riding schools will lease out their horses as well. Price can vary quite a bit and a lot pf people will do a free lease when they just need someone to ride their horse, also off property free leases are fairly common too.

 

[Melody Grey]

I know of someone who leases out an ordinary riding horse here in the UK. She has two leasers who get 3.5 days per week each and all the bills are included, but they are expected to do the jobs on their days. It’s not cheap- she owns the yard, so a good earner for her!

 

[Caol Ila]

When Game of Thrones gets slow and boring, look up 'leasing' on the Chronicle of the Horse forums.

 

[ycbm]

A lease in the UK would be where, for example, someone pays half a million a year to lease a 10 million pound dressage horse. Then they look after it as if they own it.

Most of what is being described so far is either, in the UK, a loan or a part loan or a share.
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[Caol Ila]

Well, yes.

Like rugs = blankets; boarding = livery; halter = headcollar, numnah = saddle pad, trailer = box (sort of), etc. etc. etc.

 

[st_marks]

At the top end of the market, you pay a lease fee for use of the horse for a certain period of time, typically a year - this used to be 30% of the horses' value but is now more like 50%. Then you are responsible for board/livery, training, shoes, vet, show fees, insurance, etc. People make a LOT of money leasing out strings of these fancy horses and they will only go to approved lease homes with a reputable trainer. You can also lease a horse just for a competition season (ie, the circuit in Wellington over the winter) or for an even shorter period, like our equitation finals. At those levels it's really not going to be any cheaper than buying over the long term - there are people who will lease a $50k horse (or two) every year for their kid. But it's less risk to you if the horse has a catastrophic injury, and if your priority is competing, you can lease a different, experienced horse to take you or your kid up a level every year. It's also possible to find a lease-to-own, where the lease price is factored into the purchase price if the rider wants to buy the horse when the lease ends.

 

[SEL]

A friend of mine leases a pony for her daughter in the UK - it's a mounted games pony who has competed at top level and I winced at monthly cost. She calls it a loan though.

 

[Rowreach]

Some friends did it for their teenage daughter, they didn’t want to buy an expensive horse to then sell it when she went to uni, so they leased one for a few grand for two years.

 

[twiggy2]

A women i worked for leased a pony for her daughter to event at BE90/100 after it failed a vetting, it was a few years ago and the pony was for sale for 20k I believe, it failed on xrays as a bone chip showed up in a fetlock, she leased the pony for about a year but he went back as he would just stop in the middle of a track and refuse to move, wiped the floor at dressage though so got sold for bug bucks to a purely dressage home.
Not sure how much they paid to lease the pony but all costs were theirs including any vets bills other than anything associated with the bine chip as the owner kept him insured so that was covered

 

[Caol Ila]

At the top end of the market, you pay a lease fee for use of the horse for a certain period of time, typically a year - this used to be 30% of the horses' value but is now more like 50%. Then you are responsible for board/livery, training, shoes, vet, show fees, insurance, etc. People make a LOT of money leasing out strings of these fancy horses and they will only go to approved lease homes with a reputable trainer. You can also lease a horse just for a competition season (ie, the circuit in Wellington over the winter) or for an even shorter period, like our equitation finals. At those levels it's really not going to be any cheaper than buying over the long term - there are people who will lease a $50k horse (or two) every year for their kid. But it's less risk to you if the horse has a catastrophic injury, and if your priority is competing, you can lease a different, experienced horse to take you or your kid up a level every year. It's also possible to find a lease-to-own, where the lease price is factored into the purchase price if the rider wants to buy the horse when the lease ends.

Yeah, the top end of the market operates on its own planet. I've never seen that planet, not even passing through its solar system. In the middling part of the market where people mostly trail ride or punter about at low-level dressage, leasing is much more akin to UK loaning/shairng.

 

[ycbm]

I know of someone who leases out an ordinary riding horse here in the UK. She has two leasers who get 3.5 days per week each and all the bills are included, but they are expected to do the jobs on their days. It’s not cheap- she owns the yard, so a good earner for her!

I've never seen that arrangement referred to as anything but a part loan or a part share in the UK.

In terms of a car, a lease would involve paying to act as if you own the car full, before you even start thinking about running costs, and I think the same applies to horses.

A lease surely must include some payment towards the capital cost of the item being leased? Otherwise there is no difference between a lease and a share.
.

 

[ycbm]

At the top end of the market, you pay a lease fee for use of the horse for a certain period of time, typically a year - this used to be 30% of the horses' value but is now more like 50%. Then you are responsible for board/livery, training, shoes, vet, show fees, insurance, etc. People make a LOT of money leasing out strings of these fancy horses and they will only go to approved lease homes with a reputable trainer. You can also lease a horse just for a competition season (ie, the circuit in Wellington over the winter) or for an even shorter period, like our equitation finals. At those levels it's really not going to be any cheaper than buying over the long term - there are people who will lease a $50k horse (or two) every year for their kid. But it's less risk to you if the horse has a catastrophic injury, and if your priority is competing, you can lease a different, experienced horse to take you or your kid up a level every year. It's also possible to find a lease-to-own, where the lease price is factored into the purchase price if the rider wants to buy the horse when the lease ends.

Wow, that's way more expensive than I expected!

 

[Melody Grey]

I've never seen that arrangement referred to as anything but a part loan or a part share in the UK.

In terms of a car, a lease would involve paying to act as if you own the car full, before you even start thinking about running costs, and I think the same applies to horses.

A lease surely must include some payment towards the capital cost of the item being leased? Otherwise there is no difference between a lease and a share.
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Agreed- it’s advertised as a lease which is what made me think of it.

The amount being charged in this particular case is quite a bit- about £600/ month between the two ‘leasers’ so I guess there’s an argument there that it is contributing to the capital. It’s a fairly standard coloured cob kept on their own yard with no labour costs, so I don’t think you could argue that was all the cost of keeping it!

 

[st_marks]

Yeah, the top end of the market operates on its own planet. I've never seen that planet, not even passing through its solar system. In the middling part of the market where people mostly trail ride or punter about at low-level dressage, leasing is much more akin to UK loaning/shairng.

Yes, I lease a horse, pay his board only, and have access to him 7 days per week. Owner pays vet, farrier, etc. I've also done leases where I paid a % of horses' monthly expenses in exchange for two or three days riding per week, sometimes including a lesson. Definitely seems equivalent to a UK loan or share.

 

[Keith_Beef]

We've got quite a few members from the US where leasing seems to be quite ommon. In the UK it seems leasing is limited to megabucks competition horses.

I'd be really interested to know more about how leasing in the US, or anywhere else, works.

How much does it cost?
Who pays what bills, especially vet bills?
What are the normal terms for returning the horse, or for the owner taking it back?

I'm fascinated why leasing ordinary riding horses just isn't a thing in the UK when it is elsewhere.
.

Over here in France there is a profession called "loueur d'équidés". This means that you buy horses and then hire them out to places like riding schools.

I'll try to find out how it works.

 

[SBJT]

I’ve leased my guy out a couple of times and it’s like it’s said above. Really just either a loan or part share. I asked for x amount per month and I covered all costs and allowed use of my equipment. I did insist on personal liability insurance though. In all honesty as an owner leasing your own horse it’s a bit of a crapshoot in terms of quality of people. I got one person who was kicked out quick and a second who was great but wanted something different after a while.

 

[Mustard]

There's a facebook page for leasing ponies in the uk - it's a family I think who breed 14.2 competition ponies and then lease them for £25 a week when they're ready to go out and do a job, so parents don't have to find one and then think about selling it in a few years. It looks as if other people can offer ponies for lease through them as well.

 

[Red-1]

I knew someone who leased an eventer. From what I recollect, she had it to compete, the season after it completed Badminton, but it was an older horse who would not have been able to campaign at that level again. She was a younger person, wanting a boost to her eventing. She had done grassroots and tried Novice, but her previous horsepower was lacking to go up the levels.

It was an arrangement that seemed to suit everyone. The older horse was based at a professional yard, with all the luxuries he was used to. It was a different yard to the one it had previously called home, but equally as luzurious. The rider was no novice, and worshipped the horse. The owner gained a big £££££ payment for the lease, which I *think* was for one calendar year, or it may have been until the end of the season. The rider gained huge experience, and the cost was high, but if the horse had gone lame, that was the end of her debt.

I seem to think that the horse was theirs for the year, so if it had been sick, they still paid the same, and looked after the horse, but after a year they were 'out' so to speak. Seemed like much less of a risk to buying the horse and potentially losing the lot.

I believe they kept the horse for a couple of years, renewing the lease, until the horse could then retire with the previous owner, or maybe be leased by someone else, I had lost touch by then. I think 1/3 of the value listed by someone up-thread, may have been about right. I think it was the value of the horse, divided by number of projected useful years, plus a bit.

I would consider leasing, either as an owner or as a lease-e. I would imagine that paying a substantial ££££ would concentrate people's minds to keep the horse well. I believe the horse did come with a load of conditions (both as in what they could or could not do, but also physical niggles).

 

[rara007]

It’s more expensive than I dare get even mentally involved in

 

[LadyGascoyne]

In South Africa, leasing is the vocabulary used to describe what we’d call sharing.

A half-lease allows a leaser to have a couple of days a week where the horse is theirs to use. A full lease means you have full use of the horse but it belongs to someone else.

The difference usually is that the leaser pays the owner at a market rate and the owner then pays the horse’s bills - rather than how we would structure it; the sharer or loaner takes responsibility for contributing to (or covering costs) and providing care.

From what I’ve seen, this has the effect of the owner of a leased horse retaining more control that we’d see in a loan.

Loaning doesn’t seem as popular as leasing in South Africa.

I suspect that part of the difference in loaning / leasing is that the countries that favour leasing often have cheaper labour costs so a lot of care is provided by staff. Most horses are on livery, and most owners won’t be doing mucking out, poo picking etc themselves so they wouldn’t be looking for someone to share chores. They are primarily concerned with charging for the use of the horse rather than sharing the care.

 

[greenbean10]

I always heard that you pay around 1/3 of the horse's value per year to lease a horse, plus obviously all the livery/care costs etc on top of that.

As you said ycbm, it's more like you take on ownership of the horse for a year, so completely different to a loan or share.

 

[Chiffy]

We leased a pony for my younger granddaughter. It’s a brilliant thing to do with small ponies as you don’t have the hassle and worry when they are outgrown.
The set up was nothing like most of the posts above. You pay a weekly fee and then the pony is completely your responsibility just as if you have bought it. You can send the pony back at any time for any reason.
We were able to chat to the previous people who had leased him and see videos. There were pictures and videos of him with the owner. There are many ponies available from lead rein to good bigger competition ponies, most are home bred. The lease fee depends on the ponies capabilities. I think our might have been £15 a week but I can’t remember.
We bought the next size up so we’re able to keep the lease pony until the small jockey got to know her bigger pony.
The whole set up was quite brilliant.

 

[Gloi]

I used to be at a stud where one of the stallions was leased for the season. Often a different one every couple of years. Don't know how the finances worked though.