Leather 'keepers' on a fulmer snaffle/ cheek snaffle?

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webble

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My instructor suggested trying my boy in the above bit which I did this morning and he went well. I bought the bit off ebay and it didn't come with the leather loops that secure it to the cheekpieces. I haven't used a fulmer before, do I need them? Do other use them without? Thanks :)
 
A fulmer and a full cheek are different bits. Fulmer is designed to be used with keepers (though I've seen one used successfully without) and a full cheek shouldn't be used with keepers at all.
Apologies if you're already aware!
 
smja said:
A fulmer and a full cheek are different bits. Fulmer is designed to be used with keepers (though I've seen one used successfully without) and a full cheek shouldn't be used with keepers at all.
Apologies if you're already aware!
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this. Only need fulmer loops if it's a loose ring full cheek. Otherwise you might inadvertently fix the mouthpiece of the bit at a strange angle in the horse's mouth, though for some reason some people do like to use the loops with all full cheeked bits.
 
milliepops said:
this. Only need fulmer loops if it's a loose ring full cheek. Otherwise you might inadvertently fix the mouthpiece of the bit at a strange angle in the horse's mouth, though for some reason some people do like to use the loops with all full cheeked bits.
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Yes I know there was a difference although people seem to interchange the names I just didn't know the rules re loops (although I suppose it's common sense really), thank you :)
 
tbh I think you can do whatever you like :) it seems a bit daft and just tradition, or personal preference. The full cheek will do its job with or without keepers, with or without a loose ring.
 
smja said:
A fulmer and a full cheek are different bits. Fulmer is designed to be used with keepers (though I've seen one used successfully without) and a full cheek shouldn't be used with keepers at all.
Apologies if you're already aware!
Click to expand...

That is news to me about the keepers. The fulmer is just a variation on the full cheek, I read that the fulmer was designed with the little curve at the end of the cheek simply so that the keepers would stay on more easily. I've always believed that BOTH should be used with keepers to hold them in the correct position and enable them to be effective. Full-cheeked bits are effective when they ARE fixed in place, if they're not fixed they are less effective so logic says if you're not going to use a bit the way it was designed to be used then why use it at all! The only thing I've heard to the contrary is that some people use them without keepers on youngsters as they want them to be able to play with the bit.
 
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joosie said:
That is news to me about the keepers. The fulmer is just a variation on the full cheek, I read that the fulmer was designed with the little curve at the end of the cheek simply so that the keepers would stay on more easily. I've always believed that BOTH should be used with keepers to hold them in the correct position and enable them to be effective. Full-cheeked bits are effective when they ARE fixed in place, if they're not fixed they are less effective so logic says if you're not going to use a bit the way it was designed to be used then why use it at all! The only thing I've heard to the contrary is that some people use them without keepers on youngsters as they want them to be able to play with the bit.
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^^whereas I was taught that the arms curve away to give clearance to the horse's face ;) & that the loops were to prevent the bit getting caught on things. (and that children should use D ring snaffles instead to prevent exactly that :lol:)


If you use keepers, on either kind, I can't see how it wouldn't fix the mouthpiece at a strange angle (in comparison to how an ordinary eggbut or loose ring version of the same mouthpiece would sit)
 
milliepops said:
^^whereas I was taught that the arms curve away to give clearance to the horse's face ;) & that the loops were to prevent the bit getting caught on things. (and that children should use D ring snaffles instead to prevent exactly that :lol:)


If you use keepers, on either kind, I can't see how it wouldn't fix the mouthpiece at a strange angle (in comparison to how an ordinary eggbut or loose ring version of the same mouthpiece would sit)
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^^^This is my understanding of the fulmer and that the keepers are used in part to stabilise the bit, that it should always be used with them to be of real benefit, I believe the fulmer was designed by Robert Hall of the Fulmer EC, and it was around a long time before the full cheek which is not generally used with keepers, I also think that keepers will hold them at the wrong angle so there is always some pressure on the tongue.
 
be positive said:
^^^This is my understanding of the fulmer and that the keepers are used in part to stabilise the bit, that it should always be used with them to be of real benefit, I believe the fulmer was designed by Robert Hall of the Fulmer EC, and it was around a long time before the full cheek which is not generally used with keepers, I also think that keepers will hold them at the wrong angle so there is always some pressure on the tongue.
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You are correct about the Fulmer being named after Robert Hall's - Fulmer Equitation Centre, however the bit originates from the Spanish Riding School. Robert Hall spent some years there as a student, then a riding master. He brought the bit back to the UK and had Lorriners make the bit. It's generic name is ' Loose ring cheeked snaffle'.

To work correctly it needs the loops which hold the mouth piece off the tongue and in one place. It encourages horses to lower the head which is why some horses become heavy in them. They should always be used with a drop noseband to prevent the horse from learning to open its mouth. They are predominantly used on a newly broken horse. They should not be used with a cavesson or flash as the ends get caught under the noseband, not comfortable for the horse.

I had lessons with Robert Hall for a time, and the above is what he taught me. To this day I have always used a Fulmer and drop when breaking and schooling a young horse. All the school horses wore Fulmers and drops.

The full cheek snaffle is just used as per a normal snaffle, it just has arms to help with steering.
 
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I use a Fulmer without loops, regardless of what traditionally is right or wrong, I don't like the way the mouthpiece sits if it is held in place.

I dont quite know how the keepers can hold the bit off the tongue, when my horses mouth is closed his tongue fills his mouth?? But anyway, horse goes well in this set up and I prefer the feel of the loose ring. Contrary to other people it seems I actually want my horse to be relaxed in the mouth which includes mouthing and sometimes playing with the bit
 
Wheels, the loops hold the joint up and take some pressure off the tongue. If your horse goes well in the Fulmer with no keepers he will also go well in a full cheek.

The Fulmer and Hanging cheek have very similar action.

The mouthpiece being fixed also stops the horse gating it's tongue over the bit.
 
He goes better in the Fulmer than the fixed full cheek :)

Yes they are similar bits but the loose rings do make the feel a little different
 
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