Leather on new bates caprilli cc saddle

Tnavas said:
This is very unusual for a Bates saddle - they are usually of the highest quality - especially the Caprilli - its a high end range. Mine is at least 20 years old and still going strong. I had many for my riding school horses as they place the rider so nicely.

Contact Bates in Australia - and explain what has happened, include pictures etc. I am sure they will advise what needs to be done.
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Exactly, yours is 20 years old. Leather is very different now and it's hard to get the good stuff, as I said. There are known issues crop up with most of the production line brands (which includes pretty much all synthetic treed changeable headplate saddles) over the lsst five years or so. The retailer my customer bought hers from fought with her for some time before the boss of the company finally stepped in and refunded her. The leather had a coating on it which all came off, that is not good leather.

You are unlikely to ever get shoulder-hip-heel alignment in a jump saddle OP, you could add a little leather loop onto your stirrup bars, ensure they are safe before trying fast work, they work better on some saddles than others. You can usually have them up to 1cm which can help a little with effectively bringing the stirrup back under your bum, but ultimately you'll need a different saddle. If the saddle sits pommel high it will bring the bar a little forwards, as well as the knee block, so that's another possible cause.
 
R
sbloom said:
Exactly, yours is 20 years old. Leather is very different now and it's hard to get the good stuff, as I said. There are known issues crop up with most of the production line brands (which includes pretty much all synthetic treed changeable headplate saddles) over the lsst five years or so. The retailer my customer bought hers from fought with her for some time before the boss of the company finally stepped in and refunded her. The leather had a coating on it which all came off, that is not good leather.

You are unlikely to ever get shoulder-hip-heel alignment in a jump saddle OP, you could add a little leather loop onto your stirrup bars, ensure they are safe before trying fast work, they work better on some saddles than others. You can usually have them up to 1cm which can help a little with effectively bringing the stirrup back under your bum, but ultimately you'll need a different saddle. If the saddle sits pommel high it will bring the bar a little forwards, as well as the knee block, so that's another possible cause.
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Maybe so with saddles produced out of India, where much of our saddlery is now made. Bates saddles are made in Australia and the leather is still high quality.

For a retailer your saddlery knowledge is pretty poor if you don't know where a saddle originates. Bates are Australian, not European.
 
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Tnavas said:
R

Maybe so with saddles produced out of India, where much of our saddlery is now made. Bates saddles are made in Australia and the leather is still high quality.

For a retailer your saddlery knowledge is pretty poor if you don't know where a saddle originates. Bates are Australian, not European.
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Made in Australia? maybe. But the leather is European, and supossedly, the best of them. I quote the following from their site:

"All Bates Saddles feature hand selected, grade one, full grain, pure aniline dyed European leathers, as opposed to pigment finished. You can be confident that the naturally finished leather in Bates Saddles is the best in the world and, if cared for, will offer many years of excellent service."

http://www.batessaddles.com/index.p...and-saddle-care/caring-for-your-bates-saddle/

Good? Bad? I don't know, but definitely not the best in the world, NOT even close.
 
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Rodolfo E. said:
Made in Australia? maybe. But the leather is European, a supossedly, the best of them. I quote the following from their site:

"All Bates Saddles feature hand selected, grade one, full grain, pure aniline dyed European leathers, as opposed to pigment finished. You can be confident that the naturally finished leather in Bates Saddles is the best in the world and, if cared for, will offer many years of excellent service."

http://www.batessaddles.com/index.p...and-saddle-care/caring-for-your-bates-saddle/

Good? Bad? I don't know, but definitely not the best in the world, NOT even close.
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The only better quality saddle I have seen was my Turf and Travel Fulmer dressage. Not sure which saddles you've seen that are better, I'd love to hear of them. The Bates saddles hold their value, when I sold my Caprilli dressage saddle I got what I had originally paid for it. Several years earlier.
 
Tnavas said:
The only better quality saddle I have seen was my Turf and Travel Fulmer dressage. Not sure which saddles you've seen that are better, I'd love to hear of them. The Bates saddles hold their value, when I sold my Caprilli dressage saddle I got what I had originally paid for it. Several years earlier.
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Well, I'll tell you something, 1,500 US dollars back in 1995 were a whole of a lot more than 1,500 usd 20 years later in 2015.

As I said, this is my first new english saddle in my life so can't really tell which other English saddles are better quality. I can tell you any western, hand carved leather saddle is sturdier, way cheaper and lether would definnitely not peel. All that without the high maintenance. Please do not answer something like: "why didn't you buy a western style saddle then?" 'Cause that is not the point. I just mentioned it so I could give a comparison from self experience.

When I got the saddle it just looked to pretty, It was perfect. I sure would be happy if some one paid me what I paid now that is has those stitching markings.

As I said before, to me it would be really expensive in comparison to what I paid for the saddle to even attempt to return it. What Im saying is I really want this to work but since I saw those markings I don't even want to touch the saddle, in fact as time goes by I fear the harder will be to return it.
 
Tnavas said:
Rodolfo E. are you able to put up a photo so that we can see what damage you are referring to?
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I don't really know how to post them on the thread, what I did is I uploaded them to my profile for public viewing.
Some are better than others, i just took some of the markings that worry me most but there are more. I can take some more later under sunlight. Please tell me if you are able to view them. And if you can, tell me if you consider the markings normal.
 
Tnavas said:
Rodolfo E. are you able to put up a photo so that we can see what damage you are referring to?
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I don't really know how to post them on the thread, what I did is I uploaded them to my profile for public viewing.
Some are better than others, i just took some of the markings that worry me most but there are more. I can take some more later under sunlight. Please tell me if you are able to view them. And if you can, tell me if you consider the markings normal considering they happened in my first 30 minute ride on the saddle and the got even worse on the second and last 1 hour riding session.
Thank you.
 
Looked at your pictures - Thats not good - mine never did that. I did notice from the website pictures that the thread looked quite coarse. I would write to Bates and discuss it with them. I am wondering if the stuff that you say peeled off was in fact a layer of dried wax. Often good quality new tack had a whitish film on it - it was the wax finish to the leather.

To get the photos directly into the thread you need to store your pictures in something like photobucket - its a free photo web site. Once the picture is loaded you then chose the 'Share links' option, copy the address and paste into your post.
 
Tnavas said:
Looked at your pictures - Thats not good - mine never did that. I did notice from the website pictures that the thread looked quite coarse. I would write to Bates and discuss it with them. I am wondering if the stuff that you say peeled off was in fact a layer of dried wax. Often good quality new tack had a whitish film on it - it was the wax finish to the leather.

To get the photos directly into the thread you need to store your pictures in something like photobucket - its a free photo web site. Once the picture is loaded you then chose the 'Share links' option, copy the address and paste into your post.
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Thank you Tnavas!
Mine did not come with the wax stuff, I used the word peel because it's what comes to my mind when trying to describe it. There is probably a better word for it. Perhaps chipped of some pieces or punctured.
English is my second language and some times I have trouble with grammar and finding the proper word to describe things :D
 
Looking at your photos, I am wondering if the thread had a chemical reaction to the surface of the leather.
Manufacturers sometimes change their products and as saddlers/manufacturers using their raw materials to make our products we wouldn't necessarily know about it until problems like yours comes to light.
Just a thought anyway.
 
Well, I finally sent Dover Saddlery (the tack shop where I bought the saddle) an e-mail with pictures attached and followed that up with a phone call. They seemed pretty calmed and willing to help they asked me what saddle had I bought and told them it was a Bates Caprilli. The lady on the phone was very surprised and said that it shouldn't have happened; that bates are good quality saddles. She said she practices Dressage and she has two bates innova which she has had for years. She suggested it might be a problem of that particular saddle. I told her I had sent her an email with pictures attached and she replied —" don't worry, we don't even have to see those, if your saddle is broken, quality is poor, you didn't like it or it didn't fit we will take the saddle back." — that's pretty good customer service.
Then she continued and made me one particular question which I don't have an answer for. She asked — What do you want to do? Do you want your money back? Do you want to change it for another bates caprilli as the one you have or do want any other brand?
I hadn't thought about tha until now. I definitely don't want my money back (as strange as that sounds Lol), I want a good reliable saddle with quality leather to ride on.
So options are:
1) send this one back and ask for another caprilli just as the one I have hoping I get a good one, and risking getting another defective saddle where I would be put in the position of calling again and start looking as if I was being headstrong and childish.

2) getting another brand.
But what brand? What saddle? Do you guys have any suggestions that are around the same price range?

Thanks,
 
If there is truly a big difference in quality I guess I could ask for a refund, save longer and buy an entry level Stubben or Amerigo. The easy change gullet system is a nice feature though.
 
Rodolfo E. said:
If there is truly a big difference in quality I guess I could ask for a refund, save longer and buy an entry level Stubben or Amerigo. The easy change gullet system is a nice feature though.
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Or buy two more affordable saddles, one for me and one for my fiancé and have fun together as she loves trail riding. If so, which saddles do you guys thinks are good in terms of leather quality and overall durability.
 
The saddle really needs to fit the horse in length and width and tree shape. Nobody can advise you over the internet what saddles will definitely fit. Some of the saddlers might have an idea what is a good fit for the average quarter horse. On that note I would ask the shop if they employ a saddle fitter who could discuss fit with you even though it is too far to visit to try saddles on the horse. Or see of you can find an independent saddle fitter to chat to for an unbiased opinion. If you have more than one horse something cheaper so they can have one each would be a good idea. If it is just the one horse then if the bates fits it is a good option because of the changeable gullet feature. If you go for a different model ask them for one built on the same tree, if you know this tree shape fits your horse. What do you mostly want to do? Would you prefer a general purpose saddle rather than a jumping saddle? You can still jump in a GP saddle but very high jumps will be difficult and you will wish for a jumping saddle. You can ride flat work in a jumping saddle but if you want to practice the shoulder hip heel alignment you will need to take your stirrups away. Saddles are never an easy choice.
 
Tnavas said:
R

Maybe so with saddles produced out of India, where much of our saddlery is now made. Bates saddles are made in Australia and the leather is still high quality.

For a retailer your saddlery knowledge is pretty poor if you don't know where a saddle originates. Bates are Australian, not European.
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Perhaps you could check your facts before being so rude, I am a specialist saddle fitter, on the road and not a retailer and I work for one brand only. Many brands do NOT state where they are made, but yes, if I was selling them then of course I'd know where they were made. I've spent many an hour in our workshops so can assure they are English made! Some of you would be very surprised at how many "English" saddles (not always entire brands, sometimes their base level models only)aren't made in England, when you ask around Walsall, but it's not something I'd spread around. Many saddles that are named on here regularly you would think are English but are made in Argentina.

There is still beautiful leather available, but leather as a whole is now not what it was, that is a fact.
 
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sbloom said:
Perhaps you could check your facts before being so rude, I am a specialist saddle fitter, on the road and not a retailer and I work for one brand only. Many brands do NOT state where they are made, but yes, if I was selling them then of course I'd know where they were made. I've spent many an hour in our workshops so can assure they are English made! Some of you would be very surprised at how many "English" saddles (not always entire brands, sometimes their base level models only)aren't made in England, when you ask around Walsall, but it's not something I'd spread around. Many saddles that are named on here regularly you would think are English but are made in Argentina.

There is still beautiful leather available, but leather as a whole is now not what it was, that is a fact.
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Very true.
Even in 1987-88 our saddlery tutors were saying the leather today is not what it used to be, nearly 30 years on I am now saying that!
The leather back then was better than todays, much better substance and finish and not so nearly expensive per hide.
Oz
 
sbloom said:
Perhaps you could check your facts before being so rude, I am a specialist saddle fitter, on the road and not a retailer and I work for one brand only. Many brands do NOT state where they are made, but yes, if I was selling them then of course I'd know where they were made. I've spent many an hour in our workshops so can assure they are English made! Some of you would be very surprised at how many "English" saddles (not always entire brands, sometimes their base level models only)aren't made in England, when you ask around Walsall, but it's not something I'd spread around. Many saddles that are named on here regularly you would think are English but are made in Argentina.

There is still beautiful leather available, but leather as a whole is now not what it was, that is a fact.
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I was not being rude - your post came across that you were a retailer - understandably if you are only dealing with one brand then you aren't likely to know about others.

As far as the location of where saddles are often assembled - it's not Argentina but Asia where wages are low.

At one time the majority of leather for saddlery came from Argentina as they have thousands of square miles with no barbed wire in sight. I was surprised to hear that so much leather is European these days. A great shame that leather quality is declining. My Turf & Travel Fulmer dressage saddle has now taken on a new role with one of my students and is happily going to competitions at nearly 40 years old.
 
Tnavas said:
I was not being rude - your post came across that you were a retailer - understandably if you are only dealing with one brand then you aren't likely to know about others.

As far as the location of where saddles are often assembled - it's not Argentina but Asia where wages are low.

At one time the majority of leather for saddlery came from Argentina as they have thousands of square miles with no barbed wire in sight. I was surprised to hear that so much leather is European these days. A great shame that leather quality is declining. My Turf & Travel Fulmer dressage saddle has now taken on a new role with one of my students and is happily going to competitions at nearly 40 years old.
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It's probably going to last another 40 years too, not like some of today's!
 
Tnavas said:
I was not being rude - your post came across that you were a retailer - understandably if you are only dealing with one brand then you aren't likely to know about others.

As far as the location of where saddles are often assembled - it's not Argentina but Asia where wages are low.

At one time the majority of leather for saddlery came from Argentina as they have thousands of square miles with no barbed wire in sight. I was surprised to hear that so much leather is European these days. A great shame that leather quality is declining. My Turf & Travel Fulmer dressage saddle has now taken on a new role with one of my students and is happily going to competitions at nearly 40 years old.
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Perhaps that is why I have such high expectations.
I hopped on my first horse 30 years ago, it was a western saddle and rode on some english saddles as well. Back then those saddles were already old and they still stand today. They used to be so sturdy that you could even miss treat them. Dust, rain, lack of conditioning, throwing them around, you name it! And when very well taken care of you can easily expect them to be ridden by your grand children.
I guess things have changed.
Perhaps you one would need to pay for a really expensive, really custo made saddle to find that kind of quality today or find a small saddlery with good values working with good leathers and paying close attention to detail of manufacturing to get an affordable good old saddle. A saddlery with less partners, CEOs and Vice Presidents.

My Dad used to tell me when I was a younger that Caterpillar (heavy equipment manufacturer) used to make the strongest, and best overall machine in the world and in doing so they made their biggest mistake. They where so strong, so long lasting and they had such a good availability of parts (at least on this part of the world), that they could run Forever! Hence, regular people, didn't need to buy more than one in a lifetime or two.
A lot of Caterpillar machinery from the 60's is still working hard for the third generation of owners. And they still offer new parts for those machines.

Perhaps markets, including the large saddle manufacturers, have realized this and don't see "things that last Forever" as profitable any more.
 
Rodolfo E. said:
Perhaps that is why I have such high expectations.
I hopped on my first horse 30 years ago, it was a western saddle and rode on some english saddles as well. Back then those saddles were already old and they still stand today. They used to be so sturdy that you could even miss treat them. Dust, rain, lack of conditioning, throwing them around, you name it! And when very well taken care of you can easily expect them to be ridden by your grand children.
I guess things have changed.
Perhaps you one would need to pay for a really expensive, really custo made saddle to find that kind of quality today or find a small saddlery with good values working with good leathers and paying close attention to detail of manufacturing to get an affordable good old saddle. A saddlery with less partners, CEOs and Vice Presidents.

My Dad used to tell me when I was a younger that Caterpillar (heavy equipment manufacturer) used to make the strongest, and best overall machine in the world and in doing so they made their biggest mistake. They where so strong, so long lasting and they had such a good availability of parts (at least on this part of the world), that they could run Forever! Hence, regular people, didn't need to buy more than one in a lifetime or two.
A lot of Caterpillar machinery from the 60's is still working hard for the third generation of owners. And they still offer new parts for those machines.

Perhaps markets, including the large saddle manufacturers, have realized this and don't see "things that last Forever" as profitable any more.
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Interesting about Caterpillar as Hoover's nearly went out of business as their products were so well made that they never broke down or wore out. My mum still has a pre 1949 vacuum cleaner that works far better than the more modern ones.

Going back to Bates saddles I've found them to normally be one of the top line of saddles, and having trained in the yard owned by a master saddler I had quality drummed into me from day 1. My Fulmer was made by his company.
 
Tnavas said:
Interesting about Caterpillar as Hoover's nearly went out of business as their products were so well made that they never broke down or wore out. My mum still has a pre 1949 vacuum cleaner that works far better than the more modern ones.

Going back to Bates saddles I've found them to normally be one of the top line of saddles, and having trained in the yard owned by a master saddler I had quality drummed into me from day 1. My Fulmer was made by his company.
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Well, the lady at the saddle shop where I bought mine said the exact same thing. And you know what! I hope you both are right because I may very well end up getting another one exactly as the one I have given that I don't really know what else to try.
And to be honest, living 7 hours from a saddle fitter makes the easy change gullet system and the CAIR system a relief 'cause although opinions on those systems are very mixed I would NOT like to engage in a trial and error situation with other saddles.
After returning this one and getting back home I'm going to have spent at least 600 USd in gas and hotels.
Had I known that before and I would have either bought a more price saddle in the hopes of better quality, more lasting leather or a good used saddle that was already scratched and save myself the trouble.

Do you have any other suggestions on a good lasting saddle? I don't really need a super comfortable seat. Just something built for the not so loving and caring.
 
Tnavas said:
I was not being rude - your post came across that you were a retailer - understandably if you are only dealing with one brand then you aren't likely to know about others.

As far as the location of where saddles are often assembled - it's not Argentina but Asia where wages are low.

At one time the majority of leather for saddlery came from Argentina as they have thousands of square miles with no barbed wire in sight. I was surprised to hear that so much leather is European these days. A great shame that leather quality is declining. My Turf & Travel Fulmer dressage saddle has now taken on a new role with one of my students and is happily going to competitions at nearly 40 years old.
Click to expand...

But even if I was a retailer I shouldn't necessarily be expected to know all about a brand I didn't stock? I think sometimes we judge horsey "experts" differently to an expert in any other field. We can't know everything.

Of course lots of saddles and strap work are at least assembled in India, but globally India and China are starting to slow down as their wages start to catch up and this is true across all industries, so some UK manufacturers are bringing some of it back in house, other industries again, but it is not so cut and dried. And Argentina, as far as I know, IS a bigger player in the UK saddle market than it once was, whatever the source of leather. English leather has always been the gold standard for butt leathers etc (the thick flap leathers), Italian and Spanish leathers were always seen as best for shoes and handbags. Hence the continental brands are better known for the thinner doubled calf leather styles of saddle.

There has been implication above that there is some kind of negligence in the quality of leather deteriorating, it's simply not true and I think I have already explained about BSE and European tanning regulations. I work for a small company with no CEO etc and we offer, we hope, the best in customer services to back up the quality of our saddles. The English/British saddle brands are not generally massive organisations with faceless execs, they're all pretty small in the scheme of things. I guess I'd have to endorse buying British as general advice!

And Rodolfo E. it's impossible for us to recommend a saddle without knowing much more about the shape of your horse. I would work with someone like Kitt Hazelton, Panther Run Saddlery, who has a fantastic reputation for long distance fitting, and who sells mainly British brands.
 
sbloom said:
But even if I was a retailer I shouldn't necessarily be expected to know all about a brand I didn't stock? I think sometimes we judge horsey "experts" differently to an expert in any other field. We can't know everything.

Of course lots of saddles and strap work are at least assembled in India, but globally India and China are starting to slow down as their wages start to catch up and this is true across all industries, so some UK manufacturers are bringing some of it back in house, other industries again, but it is not so cut and dried. And Argentina, as far as I know, IS a bigger player in the UK saddle market than it once was, whatever the source of leather. English leather has always been the gold standard for butt leathers etc (the thick flap leathers), Italian and Spanish leathers were always seen as best for shoes and handbags. Hence the continental brands are better known for the thinner doubled calf leather styles of saddle.

There has been implication above that there is some kind of negligence in the quality of leather deteriorating, it's simply not true and I think I have already explained about BSE and European tanning regulations. I work for a small company with no CEO etc and we offer, we hope, the best in customer services to back up the quality of our saddles. The English/British saddle brands are not generally massive organisations with faceless execs, they're all pretty small in the scheme of things. I guess I'd have to endorse buying British as general advice!

And Rodolfo E. it's impossible for us to recommend a saddle without knowing much more about the shape of your horse. I would work with someone like Kitt Hazelton, Panther Run Saddlery, who has a fantastic reputation for long distance fitting, and who sells mainly British brands.
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Kitt Hazelton from Panther Run Saddlery. Note taken!!! :)
Thanks for the help and advice Sbloom!!!

I did take some measurements and did some drawings following the advice and instructions of charming woman by the name Josephine Giles Dancy. Master Saddler of GB Qualifed Saddle Fitter as stated in a series of three YouTube videos uploaded by herself, I presume, where she describes the necessary minimum measurements to be taken from a horse to custom fit a saddle. I do not know why I am under the impression she is either from Australia or New Zeland, perhaps she mentions it in her videos. Among many other videos uploaded by saddle fitters.

I did not just woke up one morning feeling in the mood to drive seven hours up north, go through the U.S. Border hassle to get to the tack shop thinking when I entered — Hey, look at that handsome saddle right there, I think I'll take it.
I've been bordering my mare (without riding her) and doing saddle research without sleeping since mid November of last year and decided upon the Bates Elevation in the first days of March (about 3 1/2 to four months).
The caprilli was bought in the end because it looked more classic, it was cheaper and the elevation is not made in size 18.

I really tried hard not to subscribe to a random forum and bother anyone from faraway lands, Lol, with a thousand amateurish questions and nonsense caterpillar and corporate organization small talk. But then I thought — what the heck! I'm already out of sailing and sailboats questions anyway and I don't need much help with my weimaraners. — So I joined.

I may as well just return the saddle, loose those 600 and whatever I loose in currency exchange rates, take this lesson as a learning curve, ride bareback and be done with it already Lol. :D

I'm really tired of looking for the perfect saddle that fits my horse, fits me and I can afford. I'm drained. Next time I go horse shopping I'll definitely be sure to ask — Does it come with a Saddle??? :D

I will, however, take a look at Kitt Hazelton's work, maybe send him an email and see how it goes. Thanks a lot for the tip Sbloom!

Thank you All Very, very much! I really appreciated all your advice and concern about this leather issue. :o :)

Greetings!
 
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sbloom said:
But even if I was a retailer I shouldn't necessarily be expected to know all about a brand I didn't stock? I think sometimes we judge horsey "experts" differently to an expert in any other field. We can't know everything.

Of course lots of saddles and strap work are at least assembled in India, but globally India and China are starting to slow down as their wages start to catch up and this is true across all industries, so some UK manufacturers are bringing some of it back in house, other industries again, but it is not so cut and dried. And Argentina, as far as I know, IS a bigger player in the UK saddle market than it once was, whatever the source of leather. English leather has always been the gold standard for butt leathers etc (the thick flap leathers), Italian and Spanish leathers were always seen as best for shoes and handbags. Hence the continental brands are better known for the thinner doubled calf leather styles of saddle.

There has been implication above that there is some kind of negligence in the quality of leather deteriorating, it's simply not true and I think I have already explained about BSE and European tanning regulations. I work for a small company with no CEO etc and we offer, we hope, the best in customer services to back up the quality of our saddles. The English/British saddle brands are not generally massive organisations with faceless execs, they're all pretty small in the scheme of things. I guess I'd have to endorse buying British as general advice!

And Rodolfo E. it's impossible for us to recommend a saddle without knowing much more about the shape of your horse. I would work with someone like Kitt Hazelton, Panther Run Saddlery, who has a fantastic reputation for long distance fitting, and who sells mainly British brands.
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The best leather has always been from Argentina - its the tanning process that made the leather the best - the tanning was done in UK and was always referred to as English Leather.

Bates is an International Brand as is its synthetic range Wintec.
 
Rodolfo E. said:
Kitt Hazelton from Panther Run Saddlery. Note taken!!! :)
Thanks for the help and advice Sbloom!!!

I did take some measurements and did some drawings following the advice and instructions of charming woman by the name Josephine Giles Dancy. Master Saddler of GB Qualifed Saddle Fitter as stated in a series of three YouTube videos uploaded by herself, I presume, where she describes the necessary minimum measurements to be taken from a horse to custom fit a saddle. I do not know why I am under the impression she is either from Australia or New Zealand, perhaps she mentions it in her videos. Among many other videos uploaded by saddle fitters.
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She is originally from the UK but now lives in New Zealand - the company here though has not got such a good name by many - some of the supposed 'Saddle fitters' that go out from the business are not too good at their job. Recently one of my Pony Club kids was sold a saddle by the company and I was constantly telling the rider she was sitting crooked. At break we looked at her new and very expensive saddle to find that one side was packed far more than the other. Parent contacted the company, person came out and declared the saddle was fine but she would put some more stuffing in the side that we believed was not so full! (No way was she going to admit she had done a bad job) Following the additional stuffing the saddle sits straight and the rider too and the child recently passed her B certificate.

If someone tells you they are qualified - ask for their certificate of qualification or go online to find out if they really are qualified. Do you have a really knowledgeable friend who can help you fit the saddle?


For you UK people - the list of Master Saddlers and saddle fitters in UK
http://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/ListMembers.asp

This is a link to the page that tells you overseas is a qualified saddle fitter
http://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/ then chose the tab at the side 'Qualified Saddle fitter - then follow the instructions to find the page for overseas saddle fitters
 
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