Leg position - jumping.....HELP!!

[Birker2020]

It would be fascinating to see what was going on and why that happens, it sounds like flap shape and block placement is a big component of what's going on, it's impossible to isolate anything as what you need for your leg depends on what's going on under your pelvis too, and what shape ribcage(s) you're riding. Your leg length alone may mean that your knee could be so far down the horse that it gets pushed really wide, and a double flap means a little extra under your whole thigh and knee, which means your lower legs are left hanging. If your knee was higher on the horse your calf would have more bulk underneath it.

Because our legs are two straight lines, and horses have curved ribcages, where we need the support can vary massively, and it needs to be targeted specifically, the thickness of the flap being the base, then we customise further from there.

This reminds me of a group clinic I used to attend weekly on my first horse. My saddle was lovely -it was a second hand saddle made WH Gidden who were appointed to Stubben. The saddle probably wasn't ideal based on what you've said above. My lower leg kept wondering forwards and no matter what I did with my position I couldn't stop it.

The lady giving the lesson was very fierce (but lovely) and used to bellow across the arena "MISS ANNE ON THE BIG BAY, GET THAT LOWER LEG BACK!"

After a few weeks I got so fed up of her shouting at me about my blasted wandering lower leg, I improvised and got some old material, attached some doubled sided velcro tape down the length, wrapped some old tights and sewed it up with mums singer sewing machine fashioning two very basic knee blocks which I attached to my saddle with the velcro.

A few weeks on and not once had the instructor shouted at me so the one night after the group lesson I said "you haven't said anything about my lower leg for ages - have you noticed a difference?" to which she said she had. So I fessed up. She said "Miss Anne, if that works for you, then that's fine" which I took as acceptance. Bless her, she was a good old stick, even though most people were terrified of her.

 

[sbloom]

The lady giving the lesson was very fierce (but lovely) and used to bellow across the arena "MISS ANNE ON THE BIG BAY, GET THAT LOWER LEG BACK!"

After a few weeks I got so fed up of her shouting at me about my blasted wandering lower leg, I improvised and got some old material, attached some doubled sided velcro tape down the length, wrapped some old tights and sewed it up with mums singer sewing machine fashioning two very basic knee blocks which I attached to my saddle with the velcro.

Most of us need a block for support, in part at least to fill the gap between our knees and the horse/saddle, and yes, this was clearly the case with you. Gidden saddles would have been old fashioned already in most of our lifetimes (they did make their own saddles afaik, a great old London saddler from whom I had my last hacking jacket, and my first Ariats!). It can go way further than that however - inserting a 5mm thick strip of felt under seatbones (her Thinline seatsaver could hold it in place to an extent, she's getting a needle and thread out!), shimming the skirts above the stirrup buckle and adding support under the lower leg transformed my customer's riding at my last appointment last night. And I'm a half decent saddle fitter who's been working with her for about 6 years already, these skills are only just seeping into tiny corners of saddle fitting and rider biomechanics.

 

[sbloom]

No stirrups to strengthen core and leg.

Working hard on your form, while working in poor form. or in a saddle you're fighting, is likely counterproductive. Just because this is what we've always done doesn't mean it's the best way forwards. Now we know better.

I think the whole balance of jump saddles, the placement of the stirrup bar compared to the balance point of the seat, may be in play here. If we get the leg back under the rider then the hips will be able to sit over the foot more easily without popping up out of the saddle.

https://www.facebook.com/ergox2/posts/4652537811491268

(sorry about Facebook translation!).

 

[Bernster]

Urgh, just watched some vids back and I stand up in the saddle ? with what appears to be a chair seat beforehand. Although that’s from our first attempt jumping a course so lots of defensive riding from me and lots to work on.

I wouldn’t have a clue what ‘hips forward’ means but I do understand bum back, which would put me further back and stop me standing up over the fence.

 

[sbloom]

Urgh, just watched some vids back and I stand up in the saddle ? with what appears to be a chair seat beforehand. Although that’s from our first attempt jumping a course so lots of defensive riding from me and lots to work on.

I wouldn’t have a clue what ‘hips forward’ means but I do understand bum back, which would put me further back and stop me standing up over the fence.

It sounds like your saddle geometry doesn't suit you. You could try putting spacers (you can even use plating bands wrapped multiple times) at the front of the bar, only up to 1cm, and check the stirrup then sits completely, securely on the bar, and see if that helps, but you DO need to fold at the hips even if it's hips forwards so you can still train that.

 

[RachelFerd]

Working hard on your form, while working in poor form. or in a saddle you're fighting, is likely counterproductive. Just because this is what we've always done doesn't mean it's the best way forwards. Now we know better.

I think the whole balance of jump saddles, the placement of the stirrup bar compared to the balance point of the seat, may be in play here. If we get the leg back under the rider then the hips will be able to sit over the foot more easily without popping up out of the saddle.

https://www.facebook.com/ergox2/posts/4652537811491268

(sorry about Facebook translation!).

I'm not sure what these photos are trying to show - they are 2 different phases of jump. In the first photo the rider has to allow the hips further back to keep weight over the stirrup whilst allowing freedom of the horses head and neck. The second photo is earlier in the phase of the jump and therefore completely normal for the hips to be forward at that point - they will have to move back as the horse moves into the mid-air phase to stay in balance.

 

[Birker2020]

Most of us need a block for support, in part at least to fill the gap between our knees and the horse/saddle, and yes, this was clearly the case with you. Gidden saddles would have been old fashioned already in most of our lifetimes (they did make their own saddles afaik, a great old London saddler from whom I had my last hacking jacket, and my first Ariats!). It can go way further than that however - inserting a 5mm thick strip of felt under seatbones (her Thinline seatsaver could hold it in place to an extent, she's getting a needle and thread out!), shimming the skirts above the stirrup buckle and adding support under the lower leg transformed my customer's riding at my last appointment last night. And I'm a half decent saddle fitter who's been working with her for about 6 years already, these skills are only just seeping into tiny corners of saddle fitting and rider biomechanics.

Thank you for answering my question. The saddle fitter I have chosen to visit me next month has a huge number of second hand saddles for sale which has swayed me into using him, he is a Master Saddler as well and he has been very well recommended by a number of people as well as my physio who serves some of the horses he has been asked to fit to. I just hope he is half as knowledgable as you.

 

[alexomahony]

I think the best advice I can offer for this is standing up - when you’re hacking and in walk, stand up in your stirrups and stay there. It will build up your leg and core strength.

Second bit is Think in your mind about the sole of your foot facing the fence on your approach. Obviously you can’t actually do that, but the thought and conscious attempt should be enough to secure your legs position

good luck!

 

[Bob notacob]

The position of the lower leg is determined by a dynamic equilibrium . A triangle of forces . The stirrup leather hangs as a pendulum from the stirrup bar and creates one side of the triangle .The lower leg ,another and the distance from the ball of the foot to the ankle ,the third component. At any given moment these will all try to move to create a position of stability where all forces are equal and opposite. The position of the stirrup bar is critical in achieving a good workable static position for the lower leg. Whilst the rider can alter their upper body centre of gravity and adjust the lower leg to a degree, there is a limit to this. The saddle must fit both the horse and the rider .Outside of those limits ,lower leg instability is inevitable.

 

[sbloom]

Define "the saddle must fit the rider"....our idea of this is changing. Physics is critical but we can help the body to work with the laws of physics and not against by providing support where it is needed, and removing bulk where it is unhelpful.

 

[Flying_Form]

Hi guys,

Looking for some exercises, tips and tricks to help with my leg/lower leg particularly whilst jumping. I have had quite a long break from jumping but am now getting back into it (only low level) and am really struggling to keep my lower legs down the girth and not having them swinging back. I'm assuming I'm gripping with my knees but its really getting me down as I'm really hard on myself when it comes to my riding and feel I'm letting my lovely horse down. I've currently resorted to tying my stirrups to the girth which i know isn't the right way to actually fix the problem so hoping for some help. I really want to get my position nailed and secure so i can ride my horse effectively. I have regular lessons for both jumping and flat and my instructors have said it will come with regular practice and I'm just being hard on myself but hoping there is more i can be doing. I want that Lara Collett lower leg!!!

As someone already said, do lots of riding in two point - I mean a lot. As well, I found when I was younger that riding in a longer stirrup length for a few minutes each session prevented my leg from tipping because I was trying to keep my foot in the stirrups over the jump more, which caused me a to put more weight into my heel resulting in a stiller lower leg. Also - trotting and cantering with no stirrups helps you keep your leg still and go with the horses movement, but try not to brace with your legs if you haven’t done it before or if you’re nervous. Maybe do it first in a round pen or have someone put you on a lunge line(and if you really want to torture yourself try two point and jumping with no stirrups!!!) Grids with bounces also help riders in adjusting and improving their position. You could set up three or four small bounces in a row, let your horse do the work if you can and you just focus on your lower leg!

 

[YoungNag22]

Hi Everyone, thanks so much for all your replies they have been really helpful. I've been working heavily on 2 point and no stirrups work which on the flat I feel secure and balanced and independent to my hands. Both my instructors agree (always more to improve on but they have all been really happy with my riding generally) but they agree that my saddle may not be helping so i have the saddle fitter coming end of the month and will have a chat with her about things. It's really getting me down despite really enjoying jumping my horse as i just feel like I'm letting him down and cant ask more of him until this is sorted. So unbelievably frustrating to try and put your body in a position where you know it needs to be but it just wont go .