Legal Advice-A rig has injured my mares back

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Meraut85

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Hi
I RECENTLY MOVED TO A NEW YARD ON THE SAME DAY AS ANOTHER GIRL. OUR HOURSES WERE PUT INTO A FIELD WITH ANOTHER MARE AND ABOUT 6 GELDINGS. MY MARE HAS RECENTLY GONE LAME, ON MENTIONING THIS TO ONE OF THE GIRLS AT THE YARD IT HAS BEEN FOUND THAT THE OTHER NEW GIRLS HORSE HAS BEEN MOUNTING MY MARE (SHE IS AN ANGLO ARAB) HE IS A CLYDESDALE! I HAVE IMMEDIATELY MOVED HER TO A DIFFERENT FIELD AS WE HAVE DONE WITH THE OTHER MARE! MY MARE NOW HAS LAMENESS AND A BAD BACK DUE TO THIS. ON FURTHER INVESTIGATION BY CONTACTING THE GIRLS PREVIOUS YARD, WE HAVE FOUND OUT SHE HAS BEEN KICKED OFF SEVERAL YARDS FOR THE HORSES BEHAVIOUR AND THAT HE IS A KNOWN RIG! SHE DID NOT DISCLOSE THIS WHEN SHE MOVED TO THE YARD AND NOW MY MARE IS INJURED DUE TO HER LYING!! WHERE DO I STAND IN GETTING HER TO PAY FOR MY VETS BILLS/BACK SPECIALIST BILLS? I ALSO NEED TO GET MY MARE PREGNANCY TESTED DE TO THIS SO SHOULD SHE PAY THE BILL DUE TO NOT INFORMING ANYONE INCLUDING THE STABLE OWNER THAT HE WAS A FULL RIG?

ANY ADVICE WOULD BE GREAT AS I AM FINDING THIS VERY STRESSFULL AND INFURIATING AS NOW DUE TO HER MY MARE CANNOT COMPETE!
THANKS! <font color="purple"> </font>
 
You'll have a very hard time unless you can absolutely prove that her horse mounted your mare.
Did you see it happening? Did anyone else see it happening?
 
Before accusing anyone of lying - you ought to speak to the YO and the girl to establish the facts. Only then can you proceed.
 
surely if the girl already knpws he is a rig and kept quiet about it then she should be liable. only if there is proof of this, also if there are witnesses to say he had been mounting her then i would think you have a case. This could so easily have been avoided if she had just come clean. very irresponsible in my opinion and i would be livid. What is the yard owner saying about it?
 
I DIDNT SEE IT HAPPEN MYSELF BUT SINCE DAY ONE HE HAS BEEN CONSTANTLY HARRASSING HER, SHE HAS JUST COME OUT OF SEASON BUT WAS AN ABSOLUTE NIGHTMARE LAST WEEK BECAUSE OF IT (INT EHYEARS I HAVE HAD HER SHE HAS NEVER BEEN A PROBLEM WHEN IN SEASON!)
HE HAS VERY STALLION LIKE TENDANCIES-THE OWNER TAKES HIM OUT OF THE FIELD IN A CHIFFONY! HE HAS ATTCKED SEVERAL OF THE GELDINGS IN THE FIELD AND WOULD NOT LET ANY OF THEM ANY WHERE NEAR MY MARE.
YESTERDAY BEFORE THE OTHER MARE WAS MOVED (AND MINE HAD ALREADY BEEN MOVED) HE WAS CHALLENGING ON OF THE OTHER GELDING AND SCENT MARKING ROUND HIM!
 
maybe try speaking to the yo of the previous yard this gril was at...

Courts require a proponderence of of the evidence, not absolute out and out proof so with a firm witness on an old yard this would probably give you something to use in your cause for recompense.
 
I AM ABSOLUTELY FUMING ABOUT IT! WE (I MEAN ALL THE PPL THAT HAVE HAD HORSES IN THE FIELD WITH THE PROBLEM HORSE) ARE APPALLED THAT SHE DIDNT SAY ANYTHING! THE YARD OWNER SAID HE WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY TO SORT OUT A SEPERATE FIELD FOR HER HAD SHE SAI ANYTHING! I HAVE NOT SEEN HIM THIS MORNING BUT WILL BE SPEAKING TO HIM THIS EVENING!
 
I agree you will need to have had someone witness it before you can say for sure that's the problem. My boy went a bit 'funny' a few years ago and it eventually turned out he had been mounted by another horse in the field - the mud marks on the rug (horse hadn't rolled as only 2 smears of mud down by point of hip/belly) and the hairs caught in the seams also gave it away, but we could only guess which horse it was going by the color of the hair caught on the rug.

BUT, if thehorse is found to be a rig and your mare has been mounted and is pregnant then I think they should pay vets fees.

Is a rig treated as a stallion for insurance purposes?
 
My gelding will attack other geldings and will prevent them getting to the mares. But he isnt a rig.
crazy.gif


It sounds more like pecking order disputes if he is new.

Sorry but i think you need to calm down and stop throwing these accusations around.


These things get back to the owners.
 
I'M NOT SURE IF THEY ARE TREATED AS A STALLION BUT WILL BE CHECKING WITH MY INSURANCE COMPANY. SHE HAS MARKS OVER TWO OF HER RUGS- THERE IS NO WAY THEY COULD HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY ROLLING.
I HAVE SPOKEN TO MY VET WHO IS COMING OUT TO SEE MY MARE AND HE HAS SUGGESTED THE RIG SHOULD BE TESTED TO CONFIRM HE IS A FULL RIG! I WILL BE DISCUSSING WITH THE YO TO SEE IF HE WANTS TO GET THIS DONE-SO HOPEFULLY THAT WAY SHE WILL HAVE TO 'FESS UP AND ISOLATE THE HORSE INTO ANOTHER FIELD SO ALL THE OTHER HORSES ARE SAFER!
I HOPE SHE IS NOT PREGNANT AS I DONT WANT TO PUT HER THROUGH IT AND I KNOW THERE IS NO WAY I CAN AFFORD A FOAL SO IN THE END IT IS UNFAIR!
 
It's amazing what a change of venue can do for a mare and her seasons.......

You do need to speak to the YO and find out exactly what he proposes doing about this horse - clearly (if it is attacking other horses) it needs to be segragated.

P.s - you don't need to write in capitals to get your point across.

Welcome to the forum by the way.
 
I think this would be very difficult to prove. Yes,in law , owners have strict liability for their animals but you will need evidence that your mare's injuries (a) exist and (b) were, on the balance of probabilities, caused by the alleged rig's behaviour. What if your mare had an undisclosed underlying back condition?

And it will be asked of you, since "From day one he has been constantly harassing my mare" why you did not move her from day one? Or why you turned her out in a mixed field of mares and gelding when it is the practice in many yards to segregate? Or why you did not introduce her more gradually to the entire residents of the field, which is always a tricky situation - she could have been injured by one of the other horses.

In livery yards across the country, horses unfortunately injure each other when turned out together. If we all sued each other when this happened, eg if one horse was a "known kicker" we would end up with no livery yards or individual turnout only. OK in this case, the allegation of this horse being a rig is slightly different, but I cannot understand why you were happy to turn out in a mixed herd without asking some hard questions about the behaviour of the other horses and moved her more quickly when you found out.
 
My horse is very dominant and keeps other geldings away but he is not a rig, just top of the tree in pecking order and expects others to fall in line. Because I know this I have to make sure he is in the right group ie geldings only.

Personally I would be very surprised if you could prove your case as the horse is displaying natural behaviour and some mares are real tarts when in season, which invites trouble. Personally I wouldn't have agreed for her to be in a mixed herd.

I think it may be the case that you have to claim from your insurance, as really thats what its there for.
 
Oh come on give the OP a break, maybe they forgot to turn the Caps off? Just because she is typing in caps doesnt mean she has "screamed in her face".
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So to answer the questions, as (i think it was AmyMay) said - unless you have proof that it was the "rig" then you really dont have a leg to stand on in such ways.
Can you not separate them?
 
[ QUOTE ]
My gelding will attack other geldings and will prevent them getting to the mares. But he isnt a rig.
crazy.gif


It sounds more like pecking order disputes if he is new.

Sorry but i think you need to calm down and stop throwing these accusations around.


These things get back to the owners.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely agree!

Beau is always the boss, and he will chase other geldings away from mares, and chase any other horse away from me, he isnt a rig. He also had a 6 month power struggle with my other horse Lance, who had been field boss for 14yrs before Beau came along, neither of them are rigs....yet to look at the way they would carry on you would have sworn they were stallions.
 
Did you know that most "rigs" aren't true rigs, in that they haven't had a failed gelding and can't get mares pregnant? Most are "behavioural rigs", and it is simply a behaviour issue.
You need to calmly gather your facts, and then contact your insurance company to get some legal advice. Bear in mind that if you proceed, the owner of this gelding and her insurance company will do the same. So, if you knew your horse was being hassled by hers and didn't ask for anything to be done about it, and didn't move your horse - that could be taken into account.
Also, when geldings mount mares (and geldings mount geldings and mares mount mares!) it is often a two-way thing. Often only two horses will be involved, as others don't tolerate the un-natural behaviour. I took a TB from the Blue Cross who had spent a long period of time deprived of turnout and equine company. Immediately my friend's mare came into season, and a few days later they were "at it" for a day - so they were separated from then on. When they were in together, only for a period of a few days, he was a nightmare and very scarey to deal with, it was like handling an ill-disciplined stallion. Guess what? Her mare had also a history of enforced box rest and isolation, in her case 9 months due to an injury. The gelding was then turned out with my young mare, who immediately put him in his place and all his "rig" behaviour went away.
What I am saying is that this might no be as simple and clear cut as you are assuming. Whatever the case, have you calmly approached the owner of the gelding and explained what has been going on and how much it is costing? You could ask her if she'd pay half of the bills.
 
I thought that if a certain part of the tubing that connects to the testicles is not removed when gelding is done a male horse could still have stallion attitude.
please correct me if i am wrong.

i hope you are able to sort the situation out on the yard.
 
This sort of ganging up behaviour always astounds me - I would never put up with this type of unsavoury behaviour on my yard.

It isn't up to you and all your new-found "friends" to be sitting in judgement of this other lady without actual proof. It really is quite off, in my opinion, for you to be making these allegations on an Internet forum.
 
A "Rig" is when either one or two of the horses testicles are pushed up inside the stallion, making it look like a gelding (not by humans) it happens to like 15% of colts i think :S

Anyway I agree with Tia, thats why i was snapping, she has no had evidence, could be a mare that swings that way
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S
 
So often you hear people saying a horse is a rig, or might be a rig, or should be tested in case it's a rig, when in fact all it is - is a horse being a horse.
 
[ QUOTE ]
So often you hear people saying a horse is a rig, or might be a rig, or should be tested in case it's a rig, when in fact all it is - is a horse being a horse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree with you TP. I think these types of comments come from those who do not spend enough time watching and understanding herd behaviour. HHO is not the place to be making these unfounded allegations though.
 
YOU put your mare in a a field of mixed mares and geldings.
YOU took the risk.
YOU're problem.

I have noticed an increase in this attitude of 'your horse hurt mine so I'm going to sue you'.
Reality check, horses do hurt each other. If you dont want to take the risk then individual turnout.
If this sort of attitude continues to grow then finding livery yards is going to get increasingly difficult.
 
[ QUOTE ]
So often you hear people saying a horse is a rig, or might be a rig, or should be tested in case it's a rig, when in fact all it is - is a horse being a horse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely!

both my boys have mounted mares! They are geldings. They arent rigs, and they only do it to the couple of tarty mares we have who constantly tease them and invite them to when in season.

Lance was a working stallion until 5, so his is definitely remembered behaviour, and he is a very dominant horse anyway.

Beau is also a very dominant horse, has to rule the herd, but he isnt a rig because of that.


You definitely need facts and not just accusations!
crazy.gif
 
my mare has also been mounted by a gelding who is not a rig. they are fine in the winter but not in summer. her fault as much as his as she was behaving like a slapper. just being horses as someone pointed out.had she been hurt, i would have willingly paid any vet bills. i think the comments were made because people assumed that the op knew he was a rig. and if that was the case then the owner should have come clean with the yo. surely that would have been the sensible thing to do.
 
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