Legal Advice on neglected horse

[AlDestoor]

Loanee was 24 so not young.

She literally just said laziness. She actually said that to me. Circumstances had no changed and it wasn't money either as forage was free.

I genuinely don't understand it myself.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

It’s winter, cold, wet and miserable. Loaner is obviously a snowflake with no backbone, morals and a lazy cow to boot. I don’t think I would have been quite as restrained as you.

I’m glad you have your mare back and I hope no long term damage has been done.

 

[Equine_Dream]

OP you sound really upset in your posts so firstly please have a massive virtual hug. I'm so sorry for what has happened to you and your lovely mare. It sounded like you did everything you could have possibly done to make sure your girl was loaned the best of homes, and I hope you know that absolutely none of this is your fault.
As for holding this idiot to account, for now take a deep breath. Someone very wise once told me never act in anger. I completely understand your anger and upset towards this "person", but you don't want to put yourself in an awkward position. For now concentrate on getting your girl back to health. Then reflect on how you want to proceed. You could pursue a small claim for damages but I would discuss this with an equine solicitor first, as there are no guarantees of success and you could end up further out of pocket.
I hope your mare recovers quickly x

 

[scats]

How horrible for you and I’m so glad you’ve got your horse back. I’m not sure if there’s anything you can do though.

I have to say, I don’t think I would ever loan a pony out to anyone if it wasn’t on my yard and under my watch. I’m sure there are loans that work out brilliantly, but it’s scary how many don’t.

 

[smolmaus]

Loanee was 24 so not young.

She literally just said laziness. She actually said that to me. Circumstances had no changed and it wasn't money either as forage was free.

I genuinely don't understand it myself.

Not that this is in any way an excuse for what she did but this response and the fact it's obvious she knows she's done wrong here makes me think she isn't mentally healthy. Could be depression or an emerging anxiety disorder. The comment about calling the RSPCA if she saw him in a field is just strange and wanting to renew the loan might have been her wanting to make things right and get her better without having to admit how bad it had gotten.

I made similar excuses about losing my job when I obviously wasn't just being lazy, I was ill. That being said, my animals still had the care they needed. Absolutely no excuse for her letting your mare suffer but it might explain why her responses are so strange.

 

[AlDestoor]

OP you sound really upset in your posts so firstly please have a massive virtual hug. I'm so sorry for what has happened to you and your lovely mare. It sounded like you did everything you could have possibly done to make sure your girl was loaned the best of homes, and I hope you know that absolutely none of this is your fault.
As for holding this idiot to account, for now take a deep breath. Someone very wise once told me never act in anger. I completely understand your anger and upset towards this "person", but you don't want to put yourself in an awkward position. For now concentrate on getting your girl back to health. Then reflect on how you want to proceed. You could pursue a small claim for damages but I would discuss this with an equine solicitor first, as there are no guarantees of success and you could end up further out of pocket.
I hope your mare recovers quickly x

Thank you, its really distressing seeing her like that. I've had this mare for 10 years, shes got me through some really tough times. She means the world to me, so to think that someone thinks its ok to leave her like this and say the reason is laziness has quite rightly, left me infuriated.

Shes the sweetest little mare ever, even when she's scared she tries her hardest for you.

I genuinely think this is a case of 'ive had fun all summer, she can be left over winter as its too cold to go out'

I'm just glad that she's home. I just need her healthy and to eat her bloody hay! Even though she's starving, she is nit picking at it as its not haylage but I'm worried the haylage will go straight through her.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Why dont you mix the hay and haylidge together ?
Hugs by the way xx

 

[AlDestoor]

Why dont you mix the hay and haylidge together ?
Hugs by the way xx

Yeah I'm thinking this. Can't believe she's being picky at this point lol

 

[Gingerwitch]

Yeah I'm thinking this. Can't believe she's being picky at this point lol

She is probably worn out and knows she is safe so can just relax. She has probably eaten quite a bit more than she is used to and if you have worked her as well. Both of mine are a bit off hay and haylidge at the moment but the grass is really coming through. Xx

 

[cblover]

Thank god shes back with you! You must be so relieved as well as angry and sad. Best wishes to you both.

 

[Flyermc]

I havent read all the replies, but id go via a small claims court to cover the costs incurred (rug, additional feed, transport, vets visit etc) at least she will be out of pocket.

Get the contract, get your evidence (before after pictures) witness statements, text messages, vet report etc etc to prove your case. It doesnt costs much to do and atleast it might put them off doing it again!

 

[Lady2021]

I wouldn’t let her away with it and I would name and shamed her . Get her on the doggy list if you’re horse ended been under weight in just a matter of 2 months . I would hate to see what she would do to a horse in 6 months. She probably could end up killing a horse.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

She is probably worn out and knows she is safe so can just relax. She has probably eaten quite a bit more than she is used to and if you have worked her as well. Both of mine are a bit off hay and haylidge at the moment but the grass is really coming through. Xx

this^^^^^^^

Please do be careful not to feed her up too quickly. Many years ago I bought a rising 4 yr old from her breeder, who had sold her on and then bought her back because she was being neglected. Breeder was horrified at how poor she was and threw everything she could think of at the problem. Unfortunately that upset her digestive system and caused her (and me) problems for the rest of her life. Take it slowly and at her pace.

 

[brighteyes]

Glad she is home and safe. I have loaned both ways and our pony is still out on loan 11 years later. She's fairly local and we share a farrier and dentist so she is regularly seen.

My only advice is take it easy with fattening her up - you don't want to bring on anything else. Keep her warm and comfy and she'll be fine. Maybe get her teeth looked at.

 

[brighteyes]

this^^^^^^^

Please do be careful not to feed her up too quickly. Many years ago I bought a rising 4 yr old from her breeder, who had sold her on and then bought her back because she was being neglected. Breeder was horrified at how poor she was and threw everything she could think of at the problem. Unfortunately that upset her digestive system and caused her (and me) problems for the rest of her life. Take it slowly and at her pace.

I just posted the same advice!

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes honestly you will amazed at what will happen if you gently increase good quality forage until the horse is on unlimited good forage .
One of the welfare cases I did was a really thin horse ( owned got a life ban when it went to court) the yard caring for him just got him onto good hay , they kept him warm and gave some turnout everyday ( it was winter ) I saw the horse after three weeks the difference was amazing .

 

[honetpot]

I am sorry to hear that you and your mare have been let down, and I can understand how angry and upset you are. I am sure that the neglect may be clear cut, but as a horse is just seen as property, if you take your loaner to the small claims you have to prove a loss, money that you have spent because she didn't keep to the contract. The reason why the RSPCA often will not act in welfare cases, is it is so difficult to win a case and costly.
I think before you do anything you have to decide what you can afford to spend and what a realistic outcome is.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/small-claims-court/

 

[fredflop]

In all honesty unless you have it written watertight in your contract, something along the lines of the loanee will be responsible for additional costs incurred by the owner to return the horse to a ridable condition it left in... your wasting your time with the small claims court.

in all honesty, judge rinder is probably going to be the better option for you

 

[AlDestoor]

Thank you for all the replies!

I've decided to not pursue anything legally and just make sure I share around my local area, keeping the post factual. If I see this girl with another loan, I will track down the owner.

In terms of feeding, shes having 3 smaller feeds a day of linseed mash, and anlib hay. Shes going out on Saturday for a few hours (the yard has an isolation period). Shes being check by the vet today.

I need to calm down before I do anything else. I'm so upset and angry. My beautiful horse, I did everything right and I just can't believe that this has happened.

 

[Red-1]

I'm sorry it all went wrong, heartbreaking.

Personally, I wouldn't take any action, unless the horse has been left with lasting damage. I don't know what other photos you have but, if you do want to take action, the photo you have shared doesn't scream neglect, so you would need better evidence. My horse has to have ribs showing, by order of the vet, and I don't like it, but that is actually healthier for him that having no ribs showing. Obviously, spine and pelvis should not be showing, but the photo does not show that, just ribs.

I would just up forage, give warmth and turnout and I bet, in a month, she will look different again.

It is sad when people let you down, especially when some loaners look after the horses better than they would their own, as I have done when I loaned. I also sent a weekly roundup email with photos/video clips and details as to what the horse had done. Some people do spoil it for others.

I would not trash her name on social media without stronger evidence either. The vet saying whatever is not evidence unless it is also in a written report/statement. I echo what others have said about not becoming the bad guy here.

 

[AlDestoor]

I'm sorry it all went wrong, heartbreaking.

Personally, I wouldn't take any action, unless the horse has been left with lasting damage. I don't know what other photos you have but, if you do want to take action, the photo you have shared doesn't scream neglect, so you would need better evidence. My horse has to have ribs showing, by order of the vet, and I don't like it, but that is actually healthier for him that having no ribs showing. Obviously, spine and pelvis should not be showing, but the photo does not show that, just ribs.

I would just up forage, give warmth and turnout and I bet, in a month, she will look different again.

It is sad when people let you down, especially when some loaners look after the horses better than they would their own, as I have done when I loaned. I also sent a weekly roundup email with photos/video clips and details as to what the horse had done. Some people do spoil it for others.

I would not trash her name on social media without stronger evidence either. The vet saying whatever is not evidence unless it is also in a written report/statement. I echo what others have said about not becoming the bad guy here.

Yes the photo doesn't show the extent. I do have better ones but they wouldn't upload as they were taken on my better phone. I also have a video of a full walk around of her. This is a horse that is supposed to be heavier built. She is a cob x fresian and she looks like a fragile show pony atm that is underweight.

 

[ycbm]

The RSPCA wanted to prosecute my case and they got a vet to do a report. The vet report said he wasn't bad enough to obtain a conviction. This is him, 16 weeks in her care, the horse in my avatar at 11 years old in the picture below. Thank god somebody let me know. He was sold but we bought him back, giving her a profit, to get him out of her clutches.

She had an impeccable, spotless yard and fabulous stables and brought a lovely livery (who was later horrified at what she'd helped happen) with her for a reference.

My advice would be to be grateful you have her back and that she isn't worse, and let it go, or it will eat you up from the inside out.

 

[Trouper]

What a dreadful experience for you and for her and I can fully understand your heartbreak and anger.
You have had lots of good advice from others so what I am going to say is probably going to sound a bit bonkers but I would be talking to her, apologising for what has happened to her and reassuring her that she is never going to leave your care again. Somehow, making a formal statement out loud seems to help draw a line under the high emotion of recent events and lets you move on with what is really the most important thing here - getting her well again and feeling safe and secure.
Folk say they don't understand English - but I beg to differ!!

 

[blitznbobs]

This is not a helpful comment and you’ve had lots of these but threads like this make me wonder how people get their horses so thin... I mean I think I starve mine and they remain “always on a diet” (like me) I can’t imagine getting a horse thin by accident.

 

[ycbm]

What a dreadful experience for you and for her and I can fully understand your heartbreak and anger.
You have had lots of good advice from others so what I am going to say is probably going to sound a bit bonkers but I would be talking to her, apologising for what has happened to her and reassuring her that she is never going to leave your care again. Somehow, making a formal statement out loud seems to help draw a line under the high emotion of recent events and lets you move on with what is really the most important thing here - getting her well again and feeling safe and secure.
Folk say they don't understand English - but I beg to differ!!

When I picked up my horse the woman who had him hid in the house and her husband came out. I looked at my poor horse and I said to him through my tears "I'm so sorry". The husband said I needn't apologise for crying. My reply was unprintable.

But yes, apologising to my horse helped.

 

[ycbm]

This is not a helpful comment and you’ve had lots of these but threads like this make me wonder how people get their horses so thin... I mean I think I starve mine and they remain “always on a diet” (like me) I can’t imagine getting a horse thin by accident.

I picked mine up mid February. The liveries there told me he had been left out all winter with no hay or hard food unless they brought him in during the day to give him some. He was 17 hands and a high %TB, he needed add lib hay and bucket food on top.

I accept that people can be overwhelmed by life, but short of that it's never an accident.

 

[blitznbobs]

I picked mine up mid February. The liveries there told me he had been left out all winter with no hay or hard food unless they brought him in during the day to give him some. He was 17 hands and a high %TB, he needed add lib hay and bucket food on top.

I guess Im The kind of person who worries about if they are too hot or cold, get enough exercise, attention and calls the vet if they’re ill. I couldn’t imagine doing the above as I am sure most of us couldn’t but why go to the effort of loaning a horse and neglecting it... I mean if you’ve lost interest you can always hand it back in that situation (I understand your situation was slightly different). I have to remind myself that most people are good.

 

[Littlewills]

This is not a helpful comment and you’ve had lots of these but threads like this make me wonder how people get their horses so thin... I mean I think I starve mine and they remain “always on a diet” (like me) I can’t imagine getting a horse thin by accident.

In my case, good doer cob in a bare paddock last summer and autumn, riddled with lice, didnt help but mainly in his case it was pain and stress.

 

[Widgeon]

If the penalty you’re seeking is for her to be put off from ever being lazy to feed a horse in her care again, is to try small claims court.

I haven't read the whole thread but given my minimal experience of solicitors and horses, I would say, don't go to a solicitor. They cost a fortune and I'm not sure what you'd get out of it. If you really want to pursue her legally, your best bet would seem to me to do as above and go via small claims for the costs of restoring the horse to its previous condition, i.e. vet bills, feed bills, physio etc. I've no idea how successful that would be though. A brief and purely factual (no emotion or name calling etc) shaming post via social media, childish though it seems, might actually be the best way to go. Really sorry this has happend to you.

 

[Red-1]

This is not a helpful comment and you’ve had lots of these but threads like this make me wonder how people get their horses so thin... I mean I think I starve mine and they remain “always on a diet” (like me) I can’t imagine getting a horse thin by accident.

I guess Im The kind of person who worries about if they are too hot or cold, get enough exercise, attention and calls the vet if they’re ill. I couldn’t imagine doing the above as I am sure most of us couldn’t but why go to the effort of loaning a horse and neglecting it... I mean if you’ve lost interest you can always hand it back in that situation (I understand your situation was slightly different). I have to remind myself that most people are good.

I am also someone who worries about feed, cold, exercise... Rigsby is my first thin horse, and he is genetically predisposed to being fat. I can usually keep competition types, with little hard feed.

In Rigsby's case, his previous owner had already succeeded to slim him down from fat, to having found the back 3 ribs before I bought him, 8kg of soaked hay a day and a token feed - all ay vet's direction. They had done really well.

I *thought* that was skinny enough, but my vet disagreed, so he had to slim some more on 8kg a day (soaked). Then, in winter he was on 9kg. This last cold weather he went up to 10kg, soaked. He is also on a net of barley straw to pick at so he isn't hangry. He does something pretty much every day, even if that is just walking up the road and back in hand, as well as 8 hours a day arena turnout. He has one bucket feed a day with Top Chop Zero and a mug of Speedy Beet (soaked), 50mg of micronised linseed, Western salts, and salt. He also has an ulcer supplement, just in case.

He is now at *his* perfect weight, which I find too skinny. But, he is healthy and has a full tummy. He is glossy. Maybe once he is fitter (building fitness very slowly because of his age and illnesses) he will be able to carry a little more condition and have more feed.

In answer to your question, it is because otherwise he would likely die! I have had to work round his gooey eyes, begging for food. Make work rounds to give him enough to satisfy hunger without making it as little food value as possible. Minimum soaking time is 5 hours. Most are 12 hours.

I hasten to add, you can't see his spine or pelvis!!! But, you could pose a photo to make him look very skinny, even though he looks well. I weigh tape him every week, and alter feed to suit week by week.