Legal and moral implications of friend being injured by fall off privately owned horse

[soloequestrian]

Thankfully she wasn't actually injured but it got me thinking - what would happen if someone did get injured, potentially badly e.g. broken back or similar, in a fall from a horse they were riding that just belonged to a friend (as opposed to a commercial situation when presumably some sort of insurance would kick in)? I very rarely let people sit on my horses and now I'm thinking I might never let anyone ever again!

 

[HeyMich]

Make sure they have BHS gold membership and they should be covered for the basics (not personal accident of course, but that's something they should consider maybe).

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Riders would be well advised to have their own personal accident insurance.

 

[stangs]

The above, but also: what kind of friend would get the law involved if they fell off a friend's horse?

 

[Nasicus]

The above, but also: what kind of friend would get the law involved if they fell off a friend's horse?

Some people lose their minds where money is concerned!

 

[SEL]

I think there's been a few cases where owners have been sued. BHS gold for both parties would at least let the lawyers fight it out

 

[planete]

If you are left disabled you may be faced with a choice between facing near destitution or claiming compensation. In that case I would positively encourage a friend to sue me so that my insurance paid out.

 

[paddi22]

People justify claiming very easily in their heads, even against friends. I've seen people claim against friends, or horsey venues they love, and people say 'oh how could you claim?' and they say 'I'm not claiming against X, im claiming against their insurance' they can split it in their head that way very easily.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

A friend of mine used to have a few horses at livery, this would have been about 30 yrs ago. One of the ladies who kept a pony there asked if she could borrow one so that her friend could ride out with her. Another girl offered her very quiet pony for them to use. The friend turned out to be pretty useless, pony tripped going down the drive, nothing much but the friend pitched over its head and actually hurt her back. She was all for suing but the lady who had requested a loan was horrified and firmly vetoed it. No way I would ever loan one out after that.

 

[ycbm]

The above, but also: what kind of friend would get the law involved if they fell off a friend's horse?

The kind whose boyfriend's mother was sued 2 or 3 years back.
.

 

[laura_nash]

I don't think it's a straightforward question, either legally or morally.

There's a big difference between someone persuading a young and inexperienced friend whose only ever sat on a trekking pony to act as a guinea pig for their new horse or do the first sit on of a starter, vs someone lending their very sensible and well schooled horse who they've had for years to an experienced older friend who rides every day whose horse is currently lame (to show the two extremes).

In the first case I think you'd be liable morally and almost certainly also legally (and there was the case with the teenager and the new TB which led to a big payout). In the second, not morally and I doubt legally responsible, unless there was some clear negligence involved in the accident.

 

[Melody Grey]

Our horse insurance covers other riders on the policy provided they have the owners permission to ride. I only have one friend that rides one of ours but it gives me peace of mind!

 

[AmyMay]

Deleted

 

[poiuytrewq]

If you are left disabled you may be faced with a choice between facing near destitution or claiming compensation. In that case I would positively encourage a friend to sue me so that my insurance paid out.

This. I was shocked when after an accident someone I know sued someone else.
The fact was he was left unable to work for a long long time, had to sell his house and buy a specially fitted out property, a specially kitted out car.
The wheelchairs and mobility stuff you can get free are actually often not great and if your life depends on them you just need decent stuff.
There is also only so much physio or extra things that help make life bearable that come for free for the rest of your life. Being suddenly very disabled can be incredibly expensive.

On a totally other note. I once allowed a friend to take my horse hunting. She had a nasty fall and completely mullered her foot. That was years ago and she has had lots of operations and treatment, had to leave her job (riding) and hasn’t ridden since.
I felt awful and was terrified she’d sue. She said she’d never even have considered it, it was a complete accident and she had asked me to take the horse not the other way round. I got incredibly lucky.

 

[soloequestrian]

Thanks, insurance definitely the key then - didn't cross my mind before having spent my younger years hopping onto all sorts of different horses without a thought! I do wonder if I'll be too wary to let anyone else on again anyway - feeling bad about the fall even though by her own admission it was the rider's fault. Perhaps easiest just to keep the beasts to myself.

 

[Leam_Carrie]

The world has changed. As kids we used to ride all sorts of people’s horses, exercising hunters etc. and falling off occasionally. Now I would hardly want to let someone ride my horse, unless they’re insured.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I know someone who was lied to about safety of a horse. Person A

Someone she knew (person B) had a schoolmaster on loan as a second horse. Horse came on loan with written instructions not safe to hack.

Person B invited person A to join them hacking on the loan horse. Without mentioning it was dangerous to hack.

Horse stood up and went over backwards on road with person A, causing life changing injuries. She was in hospital and had significant long term vision damage, changing her ability to work and drive.

Person A was in 50s, not a risk taker, preferred schooling to hacking, and would never have hacked a strange horse if told not good to hack.

Person A tried and failed to take legal action against the loaner for not disclosing horse came with written instructions horse was dangerous to hack.

sad story.

 

[teapot]

You need more than something like BHS membership - that only covers up to £10k personal accident insurance wise, not a lot, nor does it cover much if you read the full policy!

 

[Parrotperson]

I once came across a lose horse. couldn't catch it (it was galloping flat out) so went up from where it had come from and found the person who had fallen off it. She'd hit the base of her skull on the kerb (she had a hat on) She died in front of me with the paramedics there.

She was riding a friends horse.

Not sure I could love with it. No legal action taken in this instance but it can and does happen.

These days we are a very litigious society so you'd want proper cover.

 

[Bernster]

What an awful situation PP.

 

[Parrotperson]

Yes. It was awful. I think she was 18? So no age.

 

[Whoopit]

Insurance insurance insurance.

Not sure which part of your insurance would cover it though? Third Party, as strictly speaking, they are a third party even with permission to be riding said animal?

Anybody can tell you they have their own rider insurance - they never do.

 

[bouncing_ball]

Insurance insurance insurance.
Anybody can tell you they have their own rider insurance - they never do.

My sharer did, I got a copy of the policy details.

 

[chocolategirl]

The above, but also: what kind of friend would get the law involved if they fell off a friend's horse?

Oh you’d be surprised ?

 

[Goldenstar]

You need more than something like BHS membership - that only covers up to £10k personal accident insurance wise, not a lot, nor does it cover much if you read the full policy!

The BHS personal accident cover does not cover even a life changing fall like I had .
It does however give very good third party liability cover .
It is however the insurer of last resort so if for instance you had cover through your home insurance it would expect you to claim against that .

It’s also worth considering that insurance only pays if you are liable in law .

 

[bouncing_ball]

Oh you’d be surprised ?

If a friend had a life changing accident involving one of my horses and there were insurance and liability avenues I’d support that. Care and support for disability can be millions.

 

[Goldenstar]

If a friend had a life changing accident involving one of my horses and there were insurance and liability avenues I’d support that. Care and support for disability can be millions.

Most people would but for compensation to be paid you would have to be liable in law
for the accident .
That is not at all a given .

 

[ycbm]

Most people would but for compensation to be paid you would have to be liable in law
for the accident .
That is not at all a given .

And because it's not a given you will probably end up as key witness in court being ripped to shreds by the other insurance company's barrister. It's not as simple as "they had life changing injuries I'm happy for four them to claim on my insurance".
.

 

[southerncomfort]

I once came across a lose horse. couldn't catch it (it was galloping flat out) so went up from where it had come from and found the person who had fallen off it. She'd hit the base of her skull on the kerb (she had a hat on) She died in front of me with the paramedics there.

She was riding a friends horse.

Not sure I could love with it. No legal action taken in this instance but it can and does happen.

These days we are a very litigious society so you'd want proper cover.

God, how awful. That must have been very traumatising.

 

[chaps89]

I remember one of our home underwriters once saying from a business perspective it was always preferable someone died as opposed to having life changing injuries - the sums of money involved in those cases can be eye watering.

I have specific rider insurance but tbh even that doesn’t pay out a lot.

Something like income protection would be far more beneficial in a practical sense (won’t pay out a lump sum of compensation but would help with regular costs at least) but is so expensive, it comes down to balancing risk of serious injury vs likelihood of needing to claim.